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Common CD question

37 Posts
26 Users
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Posts: 45
Lady
Topic starter
(@sroyer)
Estimable Member     Ontario, Canada
Joined: 10 months ago

Hi all,

After reading some of the being caught in femme wears by SO/outting posts, I noticed the common question that keeps coming up is "Are you gay?" as the 1st or 2nd response...followed by something along the lines of 'what's wrong with you?'  (those were the same "insulting" remarks I got when I came out as a CD to my family)

Why is it that people are so quick to pass that judgement and stick a label of 'gay' to it?  Just as everything it's not so - black and white...there is so much different shades of gray inbetween...

Thoughts..?

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36 Replies
19 Replies
Lady
(@tia)
Joined: 9 months ago

Reputable Member     Shady Cove, Oregon, United States of America
Posts: 140

@sroyer I think people attack what they don't understand as a defence mechanism so they don't get labeled as wierd or an outsider.

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Ambassador
(@alexina)
Joined: 1 year ago

Illustrious Member     Fife, United Kingdom
Posts: 2181

@sroyer @micki 

Short answer, it's easier and less risky to judge rather than be judged for engaging with non-conformists.

For a more comprehensive and eloquent answer, What Micki said! 😊

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Lady
(@angrilyamused)
Joined: 2 years ago

Estimable Member     Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 97

@sroyer I’ve been in therapy for nearly 9 years, and one of the things we discuss is the word “fag”. People would use this word to refer to me when I was a child and a teenager, until I eventually learned to “pass as straight”. I always knew I wasn’t gay, but this would be such a recurring topic that I even tried to hook up with a male friend — giving me confirmation that I was indeed straight. The fact that throughout most of history people never had a word for what I am, and for what we are, and because gender and sexuality have comingled for the same amount of time, anything that didn’t scream cis straight would automatically get the “gay” label. This is something I really struggled with for a long time, not because I was afraid of being gay or unsure of my sexuality, but because I never had a name for what I was either. I used to call myself “the gayest straight guy I know”, but now I know I’m something else. And, for what is worth, I wear the queer badge with pride. Being called a “fag” these days is a compliment, because it means I’m “not straight enough for a guy”, and I absolutely love that.

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Lady
(@sroyer)
Joined: 10 months ago

Estimable Member     Ontario, Canada
Posts: 45

@angrilyamused - OT - If I remember right, the term "fag" had a old English meaning of "of doing chores".  As in...Have you done your fags yet?   I'm sure I'll get corrected by those that live on the other side of the ocean, if I got it wrong.  BTW - oh yes...That's a term that I haven't heard and been called since I was a kid.

 

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Lady
(@angrilyamused)
Joined: 2 years ago

Estimable Member     Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 97

@sroyer The only different meaning I know for this word across the pond is “cigarette”. So it’s perfectly fine (and, back in the day, classy) for you to smoke some fags in the UK!

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Lady
(@daddydavita)
Joined: 2 years ago

Estimable Member     Midland, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 68

@angrilyamused I had assumed that the word had died out in the 80's but I guess it stuck around a while longer. I  absolutely love that you have now taken it over as a badge of honor. I have always said that have been the biggest gay husband, I cry at moves, do all the cooking, sew a fair bit and yes love those "gay" traits, they make me who I am. My wife just chimed in to say she loves those traits of mine!

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Lady
(@angrilyamused)
Joined: 2 years ago

Estimable Member     Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 97

@daddydavita Well, I’m a child of the ‘80s so the word stuck with me. It stuck because I felt as attracted to it as I felt repelled by it. It was clearly mean to offend me, but I would find that it was still closer to my truth than “straight” — which in its turn led to more confusion and the attempt I mentioned earlier. “How come I am the way I am and feel the way I feel and yet I’m not attracted to guys?” was a question I asked over and over again — again, because there was no word to describe what I actually am. I even thought I could be in the closet and lying to myself, because my dad was (and is) in the closet. But no. I am this thing that’s hard to pin down, hard to understand, and who would love to flick a switch and turn into a genetic girl. This person who feels both aroused and calmed by wearing female garments. This person who wishes they were allowed to and would allow themselves to be closer to girls; to forgo guys and the masculine world entirely.

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Lady
(@daddydavita)
Joined: 2 years ago

Estimable Member     Midland, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 68

@angrilyamused Hello Mariana, I like the way you think, to me you are thinking critical about your experience which I appreciate. Through my life I haven't had much in common with the masculine world around me but I don't think that I thought it had any barring on my gender, I just didn't like team sports, I liked cooking, I liked sewing and I liked being with women and definitely did not like toxic masculinity. I agree there is a lot to ask oneself in this path of self discovery but I do think that dressing these last couple years has shone some light on my best traits. Thank you for your thoughts. Cheers love

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Lady
(@sroyer)
Joined: 10 months ago

Estimable Member     Ontario, Canada
Posts: 45

@daddydavita That's a beautiful comment by your wife, embracing the fem side of ourselves.

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(@heels234)
Joined: 9 years ago

Prominent Member     Mesa, Arizona, United States of America
Posts: 602

@sroyer People in my generation{way back in the olden days,I was born in 1948}were brought up with the enforced doctrine of male and female,there simply was nothing else.Its very hard for people to understand what they fear so they either attack it or make comments of being gay.If you can hold a quiet rational conversation with them,they are sometimes flabbergasted by their own understanding of us.That being said ,enjoy your femininety ladies and have fin with it.   Michelle Brown.

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Lady
(@leainvancouver)
Joined: 1 year ago

Prominent Member     Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 379

@sroyer More and more people, scientists and politicians included, are coming to the realization that gender is a spectrum and it’s a pretty wide one at that.

People may ask obtuse questions out of ignorance or in an attempt to pigeonhole you, so they can figure out where to slot you in their mental map.

There are so many biological and social reasons why someone may feel that their gender doesn’t suit their body. If they continue to mask and pretend nothing is wrong they will end up with mental health problems, the same kind as when you live a lie. 

 

viva la difference! 

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Lady
(@jillannquinn)
Joined: 4 years ago

Noble Member     Reno, Nevada, United States of America
Posts: 627

@sroyer I would have to say they’re going off assumptions based on what they’ve heard from others, from various media sources and so on.

Let’s face it, there isn’t much in mainstream media or entertainment that shows cross dressers as anything other than comedic relief at best. And how many of us know other cross dressers in our own town? I don’t. And that’s because we’re still in hiding for the most part. For every cross dresser who is out to the world, there are probably a thousand or more (myself included) who do so without announcing ourselves. Thus, most people don’t really know us or anything about us. To some extent it’s our own fault. So don’t be too hard on them.

My wife asked me that question right off the bat. And honestly, I felt like it was a fair question. After all, her masculine, manly husband had just told her that he wants to wear panties and bras. Therefore, I would suggest that we all look at this from their perspective and not take it personally.

Hugs, Jill

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(@jerryn)
Joined: 3 years ago

Estimable Member     Michigan, United States of America
Posts: 120

@sroyer they assume you are gay because one motivation for wanted to dress up like a woman is to attract a man. Which, if I am honest, I kinda want to do a little bit.

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Lady
(@candycross)
Joined: 9 months ago

Honorable Member     Queensland, Australia
Posts: 314

@sroyer l personally think that people today find it easier to judge others than to look at themselves,  it's probably why people love watching soap operas and seeing the characters portray a life full of problems. People are also afraid of anything outside their own version of normality.  When people focus on others then they for a short time don't need to look at their own problems. It interesting when you really look at the reality that their is no such thing as normal. What is normal for one can be anything but normal for another. Well that's my thoughts about it.

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Duchess
(@flatlander48)
Joined: 5 years ago

Noble Member     Cathedral City, California, United States of America
Posts: 1470

@sroyer The fundamental issue is that most still do not understand the difference between sex and gender. They “think” they know so it is a real challenge to convince them otherwise.

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Lady
(@audreyw)
Joined: 2 years ago

Estimable Member     Savana, Georgia, United States of America
Posts: 67

@sroyer My wife is the only one that knows and she is actually the one who started my crossdressing to begin with.  But to give an answer, I very most definitely feel like a lesbian when I'm dressed. So in the sense of gay or straight, I'm a lesbian.

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Lady
(@gil)
Joined: 9 years ago

Estimable Member     Bay Area, California, United States of America
Posts: 59

@sroyer No I'm not gay. However, I am fashionable. LOL

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Baroness
(@river)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     New Hampshire, United States of America
Posts: 827

@sroyer I had some thoughts related to this today when replying to another post. I think age is a huge factor. before the internet people only saw men in drag in shows . and they are almost always portrayed as gay. If I was not a CD and extremely hetero . not that it matters at all one of my closest friends is gay.  but I would think the same thing. Its obvious the younger generation has a completely different outlook on the matter  In todays information evolution I think its getting better albeit still slowly. but it needs to be slow. Like people boycotting disney because they have too many LGBTQ shows , and that poor bud light girl geeze ..  Older generation is generally programmed a certain way. I think this is also why I have my own internal issues. regardless of what I know about CD and all the flavors Im still ashamed sometimes.  though its gotten way better since CDH. We watch drag race alot and I said to my wife the other night I would like to see a season with all heterosexual married men . it would have to be like queer eye though with coaches as I think it could be boring if left to a bunch of straight guys or maybe funny as hell. .  oh the costumes lol..  But in short I think the information people have had access to in their lives greatly depicts their tolerance or intolerance for things they dont understand.  which is why im happily seeing so many youngsters coming out early in life. the atmosphere is just way different these days. Still needs a hell of alot of work though.  Thanks for the toipc. Cheers RC

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Lady
(@sroyer)
Joined: 10 months ago

Estimable Member     Ontario, Canada
Posts: 45

@river Hi River,

You're welcome...

I wonder if part of the thinking could be cultural or tradition based as well?  You're right, River.  The youngsters these days have so little attention span except when they are so pre-occupied with their cell phones and their fingers are rapidly clicking away...they tend to ignore everything else, and their mind tune out like an off switch and they just shrug it off - at anything that is out of the ordinary.  Even if a CD happens to cross their path that challenges the social norm.

Summer

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Posts: 1742
Duchess
(@alison-anderson)
Noble Member     Middlesex county, New Jersey, United States of America
Joined: 6 years ago

There is a common meme out there that gay men dress in women's clothing. Many drag queens are gay men.

Most people don't understand mathematical logic. Believing the meme to be true, they figure if gay men cross dress, then men who cross dress are gay. This is called the converse, and is not usually true unless the two conditions are identical. (Mathematicians use the phrase "if and only if" to indicate the two conditions are identical.)

If it is raining, then it is wet.  - Statement

If it is wet, then it is raining. - Converse

If it is not raining, then it is not wet. - Inverse

If it is not wet, then it is not raining - Contrapositive

The statement and contrapositive have the same truth value, and the converse and inverse have the same truth value. (The original statement can be false, as in "If you own a poodle, then you own a cat.") It can be wet for other reasons than rain (say, melting snow), which make the converse and inverse both false.

So the question arises first on an invalid assumption (gay men crossdress) then on incorrect logic (crossdressers are gay).

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Posts: 80
Lady
(@crossdressersara)
Trusted Member     Pwnsacola, Florida, United States of America
Joined: 5 years ago

Unfortunately people are just judgmental and not curious

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1 Reply
Lady
(@harriette)
Joined: 2 years ago

Illustrious Member     Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4006

Posted by: @crossdressersara

Unfortunately people are just judgmental and not curious

Curiosity leads some people to learn more, ask more questions. A person who asks the right questions is less likely to assume things.

Asking the wrong questions may not lead to more knowledge and understanding, though.

Asking "are you gay" won't necessarily lead to much knowledge or understanding about crossdressing. It has a more narrow focus.

 

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Posts: 114
(@shelly-lynn)
Estimable Member     Grand Rapids, Michigan, United States of America
Joined: 7 years ago

It is so sad we can’t enjoy feeling pretty without people thinking you are gay.

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Posts: 364
Lady
(@sf)
Prominent Member     SoCal, California, United States of America
Joined: 3 years ago

Human nature has it so that people jump to conclusions about things they have no knowledge of.  Custom and media are of no help.  As for crossdressing, most folks see and hear in the media a picture that a crossdresser is a drag queen or street walking prostitute.  And many drag queens are depicted as flamboyant homosexuals.  Although this may be true in some cases, the majority of the time this is is a false narrative - fake news to use a popular phrase.  

I am no expert, but for me, all of the crossdressers I have met (albeit few) are straight with a spouse and fem side, like me.  

It does bother me that folks assume I am gay - I'm not - even a few close friends and my wife who are aware that I crossdress from time to time have made that assumption.  I think I have quelled that thought but wonder sometimes.  

A teacher once told me to assume at your own risk, when the word is broken down, assume means to make an "ass" out of "u" and "me."  Always liked that analogy.    

Just enjoy your crossdressing, we only live once....  Have fun...   Staci...

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Posts: 1117
Duchess Annual
(@firefly)
Noble Member     Panama, Panama, Panama
Joined: 7 years ago

Something curious. I have some gay acquaintances in my country and none of them are crossdressers. What's more, most of them discriminate against us crossdressers. It is something that I do not understand. And since they have never suspected that I am a crossdresser, I have never told them. And we live in peace. 

Still I don't know any crossdresser in my country. 

Gisela

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2 Replies
Duchess Annual
(@firefly)
Joined: 7 years ago

Noble Member     Panama, Panama, Panama
Posts: 1117

In fact. I've recently moved into an area where I'm starting to give a damn what other people think of me. I'm not there yet, but I feel like I'm getting closer.

Gisela Claudine 

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(@rebeccabaxter)
Joined: 1 year ago

    Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 1304

Posted by: @firefly

Something curious. I have some gay acquaintances in my country and none of them are crossdressers. What's more, most of them discriminate against us crossdressers. It is something that I do not understand. And since they have never suspected that I am a crossdresser, I have never told them. And we live in peace. 

Still I don't know any crossdresser in my country. 

Gisela

 

I fear you are right. I told my son I was a cross dresser, and while we still talk, it is rather the elephant in the room. He is gay and I accepted that from the word go, but he refuses to look at pictures of me en femme and I certainly wouldn't appear dressed without being asked. Obviously, I can't say that all gay men discriminate against cross dressers but from my very limited experience, it doesn't look good. 

Which is kind of annoying really.

 

Becca

 

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Posts: 1790
Baroness Annual
(@d44)
Famed Member     New York, United States of America
Joined: 5 years ago

Maybe some people assume that you're dressing as a woman just to attract men.

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1 Reply
Lady
(@joanarbour)
Joined: 9 years ago

Reputable Member     Missoula, Montana, United States of America
Posts: 169

@d44 I think you hit the nail on the head.

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Posts: 1742
Duchess
(@alison-anderson)
Noble Member     Middlesex county, New Jersey, United States of America
Joined: 6 years ago

Posted by: @sf

A teacher once told me to assume at your own risk, when the word is broken down, assume means to make an "ass" out of "u" and "me."  

While this is not the origin, this phrase was popularized in 1973 on The Odd Couple TV show when Tony Randal as Felix Unger said it. The quote was "You should never assume [writing ASSUME on a blackboard], because when you assume, you make an ass of u and me [circling the letters as he says each]. Search "Felix Unger Assume" on youtube.

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Posts: 38
Lady
(@missmel)
Trusted Member     West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Joined: 3 years ago

I have a friend who when asked the question "Do you like women?" replies yes I like them so much I want to be one. 

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1 Reply
Lady
(@sroyer)
Joined: 10 months ago

Estimable Member     Ontario, Canada
Posts: 45

@missmelHeart  that comment...into my purse it goes.

Summer

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Posts: 50
(@jamiec)
Estimable Member     Vienna, Austria
Joined: 9 months ago

I think when it comes to gender, for most people, there is still a binary classification system in place: you’re either male or female. If you wear skirts you are female. If you have a beard you are male. If you paint your nails, you’re female. If you are male, you like females. If you are female, you like males.

If you now tick a box opposite from what’s expected, all the other boxes are questioned too.

 

 

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1 Reply
Lady
(@sroyer)
Joined: 10 months ago

Estimable Member     Ontario, Canada
Posts: 45

@jamiec A thought just occurred to me that...if have a beard and is a GG (those with too much testosterone) then is the person still classified female?  But by what traits is the person being judged by?   Certainly, not by their choice of clothing.

Summer

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Posts: 169
Lady
(@butteryeffect)
Reputable Member     Preston, Lancashire, United Kingdom
Joined: 2 years ago

Good points above about a lot of drag queens being gay, etc. but I think the logic might be simpler ... Hetro women are attracted to men and sometimes dress to be attractive to men ergo the first conclusion for a lot of cis-het women is that a man dressing like a woman is doing the same. I suspect it very few crossdressers are slouching around in a hoodie and jeans when caught

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Posts: 1304
(@rebeccabaxter)
    Cornwall, United Kingdom
Joined: 1 year ago

I'm told the accepted wisdom is that women dress for other women, not men. Personally, I dress -- and go out -- because it is exciting and different. I can look at women's clothes, jewellery and perfumes without perceived judgement. Oh, and I just love the way I use my fingers when I'm wearing bright red nail polish, it is just naturally different from when in drab, no idea why.

I'd wonder about the motives of a man who took an interest in me, being nearly seventy years old (although I like to think I look younger (don't we all?)).

 

Becca

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