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As a CDer, either en femme or in drab, I tend to keep my eye out for others of our ilk when out and about and do occasionally see one or two, although I suspect most get by my unpractised eye by appearing truly feminine. Very, very occasionally, I will see someone who, for some reason, does not seem to have even bothered to blend in. I'm not talking about openly gay/effeminate men who wear what they do because of a sense of self-expression, good on them, I'm talking about some men who have gone out in public basically wearing a dress over their male persona, sometimes badly shaved faces and typical male legs (hairy and bandy-legged) with ill-fitting high heels they can't walk in and I wonder why they do that. Is it that they feel a strange urge and can't help themselves, a strange fetish or some such, or is it that they just haven't looked in a mirror and seen themselves as others might see them?
Everyone has their own reasons to cross dress and I am not judging anyone by how they appear in public, far from it, I applaud it, but sometimes when men really don't seem to have bothered, I just wonder...why have they bothered at all?
I suppose I'm looking for some of the inherent psychology in this wonderful pastime and why most of us try really hard to blend in and others not at all, with all the risks of ridicule that must surely come with it.
Curiously
Becca
x
Cheers RC
Becca, I share your curiosity. There's a guy down my local pub who does a real halfway house. I mean, whatever turns you on but for me it's all or nothing xx.
I think they do care - but they care in yet another non conventional gender way - otherwise why would they do it. Obviously for them they don't care to blend in as a cd, but maybe they want to 'blend out' instead, or maybe they know they wouldn't pass even if they tried, so express in their own way.
There's someone where I live, and no, he obviously hasn't lost a bet. He's as bold as brass in his knee length skirts and bushy beard. Otherwise no other indications - no make up, no female top, male knee length socks. I've said 'hello' to him occasionally , but not got any more meaningful response. I get away with presenting as androgynous it would seem, but yet indirectly I've heard negative comments about him.
When in fact he keeps to himself, and has done nothing wrong as far as I could see, other than discombumbulate people (hah ha, I love that word).
I remember when I was an (im)mature student at the University of St Andrews, 20 years ago, there was a man who was a regular in one of the local bars. He would be in his sixties then, full beard, Barbour coat, tweed skirt, tights and men's brogues.
He was always surrounded by people, younger and older, who, like all the other customers, never batted an eye. I thought at the time that he was a lecturer, or eccentric or both but I had an admiration for his courage that I kept well hidden for fear of my own secret being discovered.
I still admire those that choose their own path for they shake up society and, even in a small way, make things a little easier for the rest of us.
As an aside, my wife has a phrase, "No mirror syndrome" she uses when spotting someone, usually other cis women, who apparently just empty the laundry basket over themselves before leaving the house.
Allie x
@alexina "No mirror syndrome" - I love that! 😀
Sadly, there's a lot of it about. And so many more GG's who, while they don't look completely out of place, obviously don't make any effort to look feminine.
I wonder if there's a place for irony in the 'man in a dress' situation that Becca @rebeccabaxter describes.
Oh, there's always a place for irony, Fiona. It can sit beside coppery, brassy, tinny and stainless steely😂.
Sadly, there's a lot of it about.
You don't know the half of it! You should come to where I live, no no, never come here. At least not without prozac (other mood enhancers are available) and a hefty club!
[Allie dons her 'serious' hat, thinks again and swaps it for her 'mostly serious but with an unpredictable tendency to suddenly not be serious anymore' beret]
There are more hairdressers, nail salons and general "silk purse from sow's ear" places here than any other comparably-sized town in Scotland. And yet, observing the local populace, one might be forgiven for wondering, Who uses these places?!
I, of course, as can be seen from my recent, un-faceapped pics, am in a great position to dish out derogatory comments. Not! 😂😂😂
Xx
@alexina Well at least you're trying to make a new look for yourself honey!
I'm glad you stopped that list when you did though. Not too many more of those, and you'd have on the way to contracting metal-lurgy 😉
@rebeccabaxter Maybe it's just a style and type of clothes they like. Maybe they are not even trying to look femme, although, to some it appears they are.
In the past, I would sometimes wear pantyhose with short girl's shorts, guy shoes, guy shirt and wear that out. That wass my minimum femme presentation. What would someone think if they saw me? I did this just to enjoy my legs in pantyhose and the thrills I got from seeing and wearing them.
But I sooon realized, if I'm going to wear pantyhose and go out in them, I go femme. I'll wear the same short shorts, with a pair of platform wedge shoes, a bra with breastforms and a wig. it takes so little to do that. Then I have a full femme look and a whole different feeling. I present femme, I feel femme and I enjoy the full femme experience, not just the pantyhose experience.
@rebeccabaxter It's possible this person is ok with themselves enough that the opinions of others do not matter. It feels good to them and or makes them feel good. I remember when I was just starting out and I would wear one or two things maybe a skort or leggings. It was tough for me as I was still not out so shaving my face all the time and having that much attention to detail would draw unwanted attention.
Maybe they just lack the knowledge and or resources to go all out.
I was also thinking that maybe the annoyance with their lack of effort stems from within? Carl Jung was a proponent of that which bothers us most we are likely of the same accord.
Respectfully, maybe the desire you have to perfect yourself as a woman is so strong that you take offense at someone you perceive does not "try" as hard. In that case grace for self and acceptance of self is the key.
I agree with you and think they must not care at all. I for one, if I am going out dressed, I try to be as passable as I can and blend in and not draw too much attention myself. Which can be hard to do if I wear heals as I am already tall to begin with.
I think there are some people who simply don't care. They dress because it feels good and scratches an itch, but their desire to actually pass doesn't factor in. They may also not feel like there is a way for them to actually appear passable and would prefer to just be an obvious crossdresser rather than an "amateur" crossdresser who can't do it properly (i.e. poorly applied makeup, non-feminine body language, etc.) Kind of an all-or-bare minimum mentality.
I’ve wondered the same thing too. Once pantyhose went out of style, I just started keeping my legs shaved. And for that matter the rest of me too. I’m always trying to get it right, hair, makeup, clothes, shoes, the walk and the voice. I think it is different for some, they like the clothes and shoes and how it feels to wear them. And you’re totally right, to each their own. There’s no way any of us can judge, since we are all part of a fringe community that most will never understand or choice to be creeped out by. But movies like Silence of the Lambs, a really great movie, making a cross dressing a serial killer with mental issues doesn’t help people see us in a good way. But I digress.
Maybe for them just the joy of wearing the clothes is all they need and trying to pass never enters their consciousness.
Lacy
Hello Becca,
I completely understand your point. When I dress, my goal is to blend in, dress age and place appropriate, be respectful of the place I am visiting, even if I go to an LGTB night club or bar, I still like to dress with some class and elegance.
I haven’t really seen many girls out in public during day light, but the couple of one I remember were dress like hookers, totally inappropriate.
It is possibly an unanswerable question without actually asking the individual. . I understand the point you are making but it has to a be a multi faceted answer from eccentricity to mental health issues or, as one said, just lost a bet.
I will go with if it makes them happy and harms no one then good luck to them.
Good question and good observation. I can't answer the why part, but I too have run into this same phenomenon, most recently a few years ago in a local CD support/social group my wife and I were members of for several years.
A few of the members were satisfied with a rigid routine of jumping into an outdated dress, putting on a frumpy wig, and slipping on a pair of low beat up heels or flats. With this go to outfit on, they were good to go, and go they did to macho type activities like hockey games, basement gambling matches, shooting ranges, and other manly type activities.
They never mentioned spouses or girlfriends, so it would seem they had neither, and if they did, their other half was not interested or was not aware of their CD activities.
The group never did encourage growth in the female arts nor did it welcome spouses and girlfriends of CDs.
A clarification.
Individualism, of course, is always respected.
The issue, however, arises in the operation of a support/social group, when this same wig & dress crowd represent themselves as cross dressers. Many newcomers and their wives or GFs come to a group meeting expecting an entirely different image of CDs, perhaps one that is more effeminate.
Moreover, newcomers often seek assistance with the female arts, I.E. cosmetics, shoes, clothing, make overs, etc. The wig & dress crowd is unable to provide female-based information such as this, since group activities are centered around macho manly type activities.
Fortunately, in larger cities, there are other choices for support groups and sources of information.
I've thought about this too. On the one hand, I'm the last person who should tell someone what they should wear, but on the other hand I'm sometimes like, "do you not have a mirror in your house?"
For me, looking good is the whole point. To paraphrase a quote from the Disney movie Ratittoiue (sp?), " I don't like clothes, I love clothes, And if I don't love it, I don't wear it." I suppose maybe other people enjoy wearing dresses and such for other reasons. And of course, beauty is subjective. If you look at how how some people present themselves, even without crossdressing, you find that some people just don't care, or don't know, or don't care enough to bother knowing.
Even as I write this I have to laugh a little, I do think more and differently about my female wardrobe than my male one. In general, if I don't want to think about clothes, I go in drab. So maybe people see me in guy mode and think, "I can't believe he's wearing that..."
I always make the best effort I can, but at over 6 foot tall I am never going to pass.
However, I keep smooth, wear a nice wig and do my best with makeup and like nice clothes.
There are plenty of people who don't make an effort in how they dress, but that's their choice.
There are going to be a few reasons why blokes want to wear female clothing. I wear some female clothes as I like the way I look when I’m wearing them. Others will feel the same, or like the freedom or comfort they afford. From personal experience I know not all men wearing women’s clothes want to appear 100% female. There’s a scale, and you will eventually work out where you want to be on that scale. For me, it’s a somewhere in between male and female look. There are other men with different tastes and at different points on the scale. Or scales. Basically, we are all different to some extent.
Some people just enjoy wearing femme colthes and have no desire or intention of looking femme or passing. It is just another form of dressing, one I have done many times. Some days I just wear a skirt and am otherwise drab. Somedays it is just a bit of make up and nothing else. Then there aee days when I dress totally en femme and do my best to pass...to each their own.
Humans are eminently complex. I have seen some people out as you described. I've pondered why they would make that choice. Many people could look at me and think, "Why would he choose to go out looking like that?" It's the same exact question, just varying in degree - and from a certain perspective a tiny degree.
In the end I feel the answer is the same one that is used by me: Because I choose to. It is the definitive, inarguable answer. What I think you are questioning is ultimately their 'fashion choice', and that is quite the rabbit hole to go down. 😉
I think there are a lot of people who want to break with norms. Why only be a man or a woman? You can see that in the clothes. Or a mishmash like a beard with lipstick. Or they ask themselves: why is only a woman allowed to wear a dress? My jeans are uncomfortable. So a kind of rebellion against norms with a bit of emancipation for men. But that's just a guess.
I'm unlikely to pass, especially up close or if I speak. On the spectrum between "passing/blending in/age appropriate" and "bloke in a dress" I suppose to some that I skew to the latter. I'm never en femme unshaven, but sometimes eye makeup and lipstick is enough. I get compliments on my fashion sense from GGs and other CDs, but I'm not dressing like an old woman. Am I not valid if I don't pass? If my voice isn't feminized? If my heavy brow and hooded eyes out me as AMAB? I go to the lengths I go because that's what I need to be myself, in public or private. Those blokes in dresses are no less valid than me for making different choices. The desire to dress is independent of any skill at doing so, and stepping out in public is an act of courage regardless.
