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Discussion on Terminology

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Posts: 497
Lady
Topic starter
(@raven188)
Honorable Member     Idaho, United States of America
Joined: 6 years ago

So, I'm teaching a diversity class at the Uni where I work and I'm planning to do some lectures en femme. This got me thinking about the kinds of things students might ask, as well as all the different "ways" people have of experimenting with gender norms and boundaries. As a social science teacher, I have a tendency to classify and define more than most. I've been thinking about how I perceive and label the different ways of gender bending, but thought it would be interesting to get some feedback and explore how others think about and experience this.

So, I'll start here by sharing a few different terms that have floated around over the years, and welcome any other terms or ways of thinking about and experiencing what we all share here.

Transvestite - an older term that applies to someone who always (or nearly always dresses in opposite gender clothing), we tend to refer to these ladies as "full time" on CDH

Transsexual - a person who has had medical treatment to change their body to more closely resemble the opposite gender (surgery, HRT, etc)

Drag queen - a person who dresses up in an exaggerated female manner for performance and entertainment purposes

Female impersonator - a male who dresses up to try and look like a specific (usually famous) woman for performance purposes (like someone dressing up like Brittany Spears and doing covers of her songs and acts in concert, for example).

Crossdresser - someone who wears clothing associated with the opposite sex, with varying degrees of frequency, but usually temporarily, often as a hobby

Non-binary - a person who does not feel like they fit perfectly, 100% into the standard cultural male/female dichotomy of their culture, they may present as one gender or the other, or switch between, or mix and match different elements of style, presentation, interests, hobbies, mannerisms, etc.

Gender-* (I usually try and be a proper girl and shy away from four letter words, but this is an actual, culturally established term, I first read it in a textbook) - mixing elements of gender presentation, like wearing a dress and a beard, for example

Trans-gender - a newer term that is sometimes used as an umbrella concept to cover anyone who violates rigid gender norms and has been used to refer to all the different ways of being presented above, more specifically and correctly, a person whose gender identity does not match the cultural meanings attached to their physical body, this is the "man trapped in a woman's body" (or the opposite) feeling.

I know many of us don't like labels, but words are important in how we start thinking about more abstract concepts like feelings, experiences, and desires. I don't present these terms to stuff anyone into a box, but so that we can explore the different ways we experience and interact with gender. Any other ideas or concepts you might add to this list? Any refinements to the definitions or the kinds of experiences we have with each of these different kinds of gender experiences?

For my part, I think of myself as a crossdresser. I like dressing up occasionally and trying to look as feminine as I can. My second choice would be culturally non-binary. I think male and female are real biological categories, but I think assigning things like colors, hobbies, interests, or clothing to rigid masculine and feminine categories is silly.

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43 Replies
Posts: 1273
Ambassador
(@leonara)
Noble Member     Long Island,, New York, United States of America
Joined: 9 years ago

Sarah, Thank you for sharing your research on “terminology”Food for thought: I was always of the opinion, transvestite was replaced by crossdressing i.e. crossdresser heaven
Anther term a person is gender-fluid when they don't identify solely as male or female, and their gender identity changes over time. Thus, the term refers to a change in a person's gender expression (the way they look or behave), identity or both.
I too embrace your definition of crossdresser and like dressing up and try (and try) the best I can be and look as feminine as possible
Thank you again Sarah for a very timely article
Warmest regards, Leonara

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Posts: 3096
Hostess
(@ab123)
Famed Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Joined: 4 years ago

It would be interesting to know where the debate goes and see how the younger generation view this subject. I would wonder if the start is to state the biological facts, present what you have written and see what comes. It could lead to a very lively debate.

In my day there were Transvestites, Drag artists, female impersonators and transsexuals. Life was so simple then..

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Posts: 497
Lady
Topic starter
(@raven188)
Honorable Member     Idaho, United States of America
Joined: 6 years ago

Oh yeah, gender-fluid is an important one to include.

How do you think it's similar or different from "non-binary?"

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Posts: 898
Lady
(@robyn99)
Noble Member     Texas, United States of America
Joined: 6 years ago

To me, gender fluid and non-binary have some overlap but they are very different terms in that gender fluid implies polarity, whereas non-binary includes apolarity.

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Posts: 170
(@playinginmypanties)
Estimable Member     Monroe, Connecticut, United States of America
Joined: 6 years ago

Hi This comes from medical studies that my wife an RN gets.
Transvestite – was a very early term for someone dressing and living as the opposite gender life style! It was changed to Transsexual in the 70's by the medical field when hormones and surgery started to take off and is now outdated also. Transsexual was outdated and was changed to TransGender. Transgender is now outdated and is now called Gender Dysphoria in the medical field!

Female Impersonators and Drag Queens are basically the same. It goes back to Shakespearean times when women weren't allowed on stage in theaters. Men had to play the role as a female and dressed up as them. They were so revered that Drag Queen shows started to entertain us. They still do now. They do it for money and to entertain us, but at the end of the day they are back in male mode.

Crossdresser- In the 50’s crossdressing was a mental problem! In the 70’s crossdressing was removed from mental and listed as a fetish! Then in the early 2000’s crossdressing was removed from the Medical Society. It is no longer listed as anything because a lot of people do it. It is now just a word!

Non Binary- denoting, having, or relating to a gender identity that does not conform to traditional binary beliefs about gender, which indicate that all individuals are exclusively either male or female.
Gender-fluid when they don't identify solely as male or female, and their gender identity changes over time. Thus, the term refers to a change in a person's gender expression (the way they look or behave), identity or both!
Gender Neutral is not referred to either sex, but to people in general. A lot of parents are calling their children Gender Neutral.
Hope this helps with your teaching!
Brenda

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Posts: 870
Lady
(@mary)
Noble Member     Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Joined: 4 years ago

I think terminolgy is important. We have street names for a reason. (As well as personal names.)

I'm a crossdresser. Which mostly denotes a straight heterosexual dressing as the opposite gender.

It frustrates me no end, the number of utube videos / channels atm, that use crossdressing in a transgender framework. The key words and themes within their stories are extremely monotonous and predictable. Its like they are actively trying to change terminology to fit into their own ideology and activism. Anyways off that box now.

I find it extremely helpful when reading through someone's bio the terms they describe themselves with. Its true that overtime some will change the way they describe themselves. Such as when one of our members discovered they were intersex.

Interesting descriptions in the OP. I wasnt aware that transvestite was someone who basically lived full time wearing another genders clothing.

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Posts: 1179
Duchess
(@reallylauren)
Noble Member     Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Joined: 3 years ago

Well ladies,

Try fitting me into a categorical box. I knew from the age of 3 that I was supposed to be a girl, I had no way of knowing a name for that, just knew I was different than the other AMAB's. At the age of 10, while reading comic books at the local drug store, I saw a magazine article about Christine Jorgenson, a transsexual. I was smitten to my core! Was this truly possible? That hunger never left my mind. I Eventually discovered the term transvestite and figured that's what I was and that was how I identified for years before learning a new term to describe who I may be, a crossdresser.
I always considered feminine clothing to be proper attire for how I identified, I never got a thrill from dressing in feminine clothes, for me crossdressing was wearing male clothes.
I dressed often, mastered putting on makeup, going places fully enfemme and even teaching myself how to speak in a feminine voice.
Then the term transgender came into use, and that aligned much more with how I felt and identified, as it was often said a person was born that way, which I now know was true for me. I then read about transitioning and living as a member of the opposite sex. While recovering from open heart surgery I knew that was my future and started mentally preparing for that major life change. I have now transitioned and have been living and working as a woman for almost two years.
Then...then I came down with something requiring a visit to the ER at the local hospital. I was tested, gave ample urine and blood samples, answered many questions I'd never been asked, and finally met with a lady doctor who literally turned my life upside down! After asking me questions and telling me things about my medical history that were contained in medical records I had never read or heard about, she told me I had come in with a condition common to women and identified as a trans woman. She said, "Lauren you have a UTI, a Urinary Tract Infection, common among women. I have read about your anatomy, hormone levels and have tested for chromosomes which all indicate you are an intersex person." She reached over and touched my knee saying, "Lauren, you are a woman!" Talk about life changing! Now everything about the years of my life finally made sense and I could see it clearly!

So add Intersex to the list of terminology, and try living with that and explaining it to everyone!!

Big hugs ladies,

Ms. Lauren M

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Posts: 1670
Duchess
(@alison-anderson)
Noble Member     Middlesex county, New Jersey, United States of America
Joined: 6 years ago

By denotation, transvestite and crossdresser mean the same thing, only one is from Latin roots and the other from Germanic roots. Trans means cross, vest (vestments) means how you dress, ite is like a member of a group which er means as well.

But somehow transvestite came to mean doing it for self pleasure, and has a negative connotation. The shortened from is very derogatory.

Growing up, I used to occasionally see "female impersonators" on TV. Today they are called drag queens.

Gender is how you feel inside about yourself, not how you present yourself. Some of us here will tell you they feel like a female inside even if they present (dress) as a man.

I've heard some people describe themselves as dual-gender, which can fall under the non-binary umbrella. Other terms I've heard are gender fluid, gender queer, and agender.

Some of the problems with these terms is that different people define them differently. This is only partly due to these terms evolving. This can lead to confusion.

I recently read an interesting article on them.us titled "What does it mean to be nonbinary?" It probably raised more questions than it answered, but is a good starting place.

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Posts: 811
Duchess
(@missylinda)
Noble Member     Ft Worth, Texas, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

I think there are many here who might be considered by more than one term.  Since society considers all of us for the most part as the “unwashed”,  we band together to support one another.  I prefer only one box for us all to fit in, “the enlightened”.  Hope you are able to change a few minds  in your class.  Look forward to hearing how it goes.

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Posts: 928
Lady
(@wandaovahear)
Prominent Member     Washington, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

I think your definitions are well thought out and useful. They will help your students, who will bring their own ideas about these words to the class, all be on the same page during discussions. That’s all they need to do.

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Posts: 712
Lady
(@jincrocker)
Prominent Member     Oregon, United States of America
Joined: 5 years ago

When discussing anything, it helps if everyone is using the same terms. I don't like labels, but I there are some occasions where we need to clarify ideas into words before sharing.

 

I think your choice to dress femine for this series of lectures will be a good way to start the conversation without prejudice.

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Posts: 1036
(@lauren114)
Noble Member     Delaware, United States of America
Joined: 1 year ago

Thank you for your service to us all as a teacher of diversity classes.   It's wonderful that you will be teaching classes en femme.  I'm sure that this will leave a significant, lasting impression on your students.

I see the definition of transgender as being broader that just individuals who have had medical treatments to change their body.   The core of being Transgender is someone who has the heart, soul and psyche of the gender opposite that of their birth.  This lack of alignment frequently causes gender dysphoria, but this is not true of all transgender people.  Transgender people adopt the practices and relation to society of the gender opposite of that of their birth (or assigned at birth) to align their inner being with their outward presentation on a full-time basis.   It doesn't necessarily include medical treatments, but the majority take that route.

I consider myself to be transgender and am working toward full time living as a woman.   Will I have medical procedures?  This remains to be seen since I have a relatively complicated health history.  Would I like to?  Definitely yes!  At a minimum, I'd love to experience the changes HRT can provide.  Still, if I don't i'll still view myself as a transwoman and do everything I can to be my most authentic self.

 

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Posts: 306
Lady
(@sf)
Honorable Member     SoCal, California, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

I like to keep things simple.  I am a straight guy who occasionally enjoys wearing ladies clothes.  I am a crossdresser, no more, no less.  I have no problem being labeled as a crossdresser.  After all that is what I am.

I tell my wonderful wife that I am "OCD," an Occasional Cross Dresser.

Have fun all....   Staci...

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Posts: 811
Duchess
(@missylinda)
Noble Member     Ft Worth, Texas, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

I felt the need to repost as my initial reaction was not thought out.  I always knee jerk when I hear the words classify or term to describe humans.  We are so mentally complex.  Lauren’s comments put me back on track.  First I should also THANK YOU SO MUCH for being out front, and attempting to teach and reach others.  My wife, and 4 of my children are or were educators, a most critical profession.  Have you thought of dressing both ways for class?    I think that after being  Sarah for awhile and the class at ease with the subject matter, by being your male self might show them we are the same basic person.  Have you considered introducing a transsexual guest to the class?  Once again , I hope you will share  this class experience with us as it unfolds.  My very best wishes,  Lorraine

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