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Ok ladies, this is more of a rant for me, but comments and advice will not be turned down. I just need to "vent" a bit and this is my only safe place.
A little background: Lifelong CD, wife of 25 years knew before we got married, wife is about 75% supportive and very understanding. Last year I finally stepped out in public. One time in a small group by myself hosted by Abigail Kingston and the other in a larger group with Melodee Scarlet that my wife attended with me. I LOVED it and am now hooked. I did receive an indirect sexual advance from one of the girls at the second event which my wife witnessed. It was fairly uncomfortable and soured my wife a little to gatherings. She is also very fearful of me (us) getting outed which could destroy my livelihood. That is why I do not venture out near home. We have talked and I have explained how much fun I have and how important it is for me to attend events like this. I agreed to only 4 events per year.
There is an event scheduled for Saturday May 3 and I made my wife aware that I was REALLY considering going, just to test the waters back in March. She did not protest the trip, so I booked a hotel room and I began to spend time planning an outfit etc. I have hinted at it several times over the last few weeks and she never said "no". She only said that she would not go with me. Ok, fine. I know that I am amazingly lucky to have her even stay with me through all this, so I do not push anything and I tread very lightly. I don't want to be like a child constantly asking for something.
Yesterday my wife informs me that she purchased tickets for an event on the night of May 3. Me, my wife, my daughter and her boyfriend will all be attending together. My heart was immediately broken. I had my heart and soul set on attending the CD event. I wanted so bad to say something, but again, I don't know that I have a right to push too much. I certainly don't think she did this on purpose, but the timing is perfectly horrible.
There will be other events, in fact there is another at the end of May. I'm stuck in a weird place. I want to say something so bad. To clarify if it was done on purpose, because she forgot, because she doesn't care or for whatever. But again, for those of us lucky enough to have wonderful spouses and partners, pushing the issue is not something I want to risk. It feels wrong to say I need "permission", but I do. I need my wife to approve or I cannot do these things. And I'm ok with that. She could have kicked me to the curb when I revealed myself to her. Not being braggadocios, but I can dress up while she is away and have no fear if she comes home and catches me. That is a blessing in itself.
I believe I have pushed the envelope a little bit by wanting to go public and I don't think I am in a position to demand answers. (Picture Tom Cruise vs. Jack Nicholson in a Few Good Men...I WANT THE TRUTH!). I have rightfully given my wife the power in these situations and I guess I just have to deal with it.
I just hope she didn't do it on purpose...
Thanks for reading. I feel a little better just getting this out into the ether.
Hugs,
Danni
@dannydior301 Tough one for us that have acceptance we want to show how greatly appreciative we are and do need to be very careful. I've seen some over my time here that have lost Acceptance after going too far too fast.
We use a shared calendar in Google on our phones where all our stuff goes. and you could have a code word for your stuff in the calendar just in case others see it , even Just Danni just a thought then there is no question if it was deliberate or not. Sometimes I think my wife is deliberately trying to Ignore talking about it but I've learned that she just does not think about like I do. all the freaking time ughh. 🙂
Good luck hope it all comes together.
Cheers
RC
@river Yes! It is so hard for them to understand how much these thoughts occupy our minds at times. I wish I was able to express that properly to her. I have seen it posted on CDH before; its not a want its a NEED.
Oh, so sorry to hear about that! Your disappointment is loud and clear 🙁
And, I get the desire for clarity. Was this simply an oversight or a desire to have a "family memory," as it appears the whole family is going out somewhere special? I do have those once in a while with my wife, where my individual plans are postponed or cancelled because the need for family time. Or, was this some sort of pushback?
You could try to softball it by saying something like "oh, I had booked a hotel room for this trip I mentioned back when, so do I need to cancel that even if it means eating the fee?" Her reaction might clue you in.
And yes, "permission" isn't the right word, maybe something closer to "respect"? I mean, I don't need permission to go to the store, but I respect my wife enough to tell her what my plan is and giving her the opportunity to advise if she has conflicting plans or needs me for something.
But, bottom line, your title is wrong--you're not irrational. You are hurt, either deliberately or accidentally. And it's OK to feel that way. It's your reaction that matters now.
@felicianrb Thank you for your kind words and input. I agree with "respect". She does deserve it for sure.
It sounds to me like maybe this is simply an issue with communication. I know in my marriage, it's not uncommon for one of us to say something to the other, thinking the message made it all the way through, only to find out later that one of us didn't even hear.
As I read your account, I could see in it some of the interactions I've had with my wife. With crossdressing, she is supportive, but she never suggests on her own that I dress up or that we go out together. I have to initiate the conversation, ask if I can dress up, or ask if she's ok with something.
I can imagine telling her about an event or hinting at something, and it not fully registering for her. My wife loves to write things in her planner. If she doesn't, she isn't likely to remember it. If I just hint at something or casually mention it, it may not register to her as important to me, and so it won't get written down. I have to say, "There's a symphony event on _____ and I'm planning to dress up for it. Is that alright?"
For example, in your description of the situation you use words like "Really considering going" or "hinting about it." In my relationships with my wife, that would never work. It has to be a straightforward, "There is an event, how would you feel if I went? Here are the dates and times, etc. I've already booked a hotel or bought a new dress, etc." Even though she said she wasn't going to go with you, that may or may not indicate that she actually understood how serious you were about going. It may have simply meant, "I'm not interested in going to that," not "It's ok that you're going by yourself."
Similarly, you mentioned getting some attention from someone while out and dressed with your wife. What kind of conversation did you have about that incident? You say it "soured" her a bit of future outings, but it sounds like maybe you're not quite sure what that means.
I would suggest finding some time to have a heartfelt conversation about the whole thing. I've seen with my spouse that her emotions and feelings about things change fairly often, so just because she was ok with one thing at one time, she may not feel quite the same way about something later on. My experience with dressing up is like that. Sometimes I feel fully confident going out, other times I feel hesitant. Sometimes I look forward to an outing and then when the time comes around I'm just not feeling it. I think our spouses feel the same way too, so we have to be sure we're communicating clearly about where we're at, what we want to do, and what we're planning. And we have to do that regularly, never assuming that one conversation will solve or set the tone for everything after it.
@raven188 very astute observations! I think I tread lightly sometimes, like a child might, when "asking" about an event. I need to be more straightforward I guess. As for the sexual advance, I think my wife never considered that others are on different journeys and at different places on this spectrum we are on. I have never expressed any sexual interest while dressed and I've told my wife that. I enjoy the game of presentation and looking my best. It makes me feel good, and it is not a means for a hookup. I think her eyes were opened a bit when we were asked about "hanging out". Melodee Scarlet had a good point a few months ago when she suggested that I need to remind my wife that I am still me. I don't mess around when I am in male mode. I won't do it in female mode either. If she trusts me she trusts me. I fault nobody for asking, (I'm a bit flattered to be honest), but that's not my thing. Just like a CIS woman getting hit on, you say no thank you and move on.
Danni, I regularly ask my wife if she's "OK with it" and her reply is always, " Of course, you don't have to ask permission". But I want her to see that I'm not taking her for granted. So, I totally get what you're saying.
This hasn't happened to me..yet, as I book any trips away well in advance and regularly remind her. In your position, I would mention your previous booking but add that I'm prepared to postpone it for the sake of family time. That might be enough for you to get at the truth.
Now, this is what I would do, you must choose your own response. Remember, we're here to listen and please let us know how you get on.
Allie x
@alexina Thanks for the suggestion. I do believe that some of this stems from the newness and, to be honest, I am a bit embarrassed by it because I can see how it seems silly to an outsider. My wife has a lot of things she likes to do, but is not "passionate" about any of them. I think I need to better express my passion for dressing. I spent 15 years hiding it from the world. Then at 25 years old, I revealed it to her because she needed to know before we got married. Then I continued to hide from the world for another 26 years. When I finally got to experience the life-long wish to go out in public, it was simply one of the greatest things I've ever done. I just feel silly trying to explain that to her, as her reactions are usually her saying, "ok". I really wish we could have an involved conversation about it, but if "ok" is all she can give me, I will take it. It's much better than "get out".
@alexina Agreed. I just need to express to her the supreme joy I get from dressing up. Using words like elation, mental clarity, joy and calming happiness. It scratches an indescribable itch that takes hold of my mind at times. As said many times before, even in this post, a NEED not a want.
Not silly at all.
@dannydior301 Danni don't want to state the obvious but just ask her. If this was me and I'd done this to my hubby and it was purely an accidental oversight then I'd be devastated to know I'd upset him in this way. Or would hate for him to think I'd purposely do it if I didn't .
resentment has a habit of creeping in and unless you know then you might find it clawing into your life plus you won't be able to enjoy your special night with the family if you have a niggling doubt .
if I were you I'd say hey guess what I've just realised 'that was the night I'd booked to go to ...' then let her have her reaction , she May say oh no so sorry but it's done now can't change it or she may say oh no I'll change our plans instead 🤷♀️ok so she could also say yep I knew and did it on purpose but that's prob quite unlikely in this case . Hope you get it sorted 🥰
@bellaz76 I like that idea. I was searching for a way to broach the subject without being the annoying crossdressing husband. Maybe you're right, a quick "oh, I have to get online and cancel that hotel room". That conveys acceptance and not resentment as well as possibly opening a door for a conversation. Thanks!
@dannydior301 Danni, I really hate to say this, but I’m going to any way. You said you wanted true feelings. If I were you (and I’m not), I’d be so happy that my wife actually knew about my crossdressing and tolerated it all that I’d cherish the time I had with her and the rest of your family no matter what. You never know how much time you’ll have to spend with the love of your life and you’ll never get the chance to think of making your wife so happy that you’d go with her instead of going to a crossdressing event alone. Let her know that you’d rather spend time with her because you love her than going, and it will pay huge dividends in the future. You are such a lucky girl to have a wife like you have.
i know my profile says I’m single, but I was married 46 years and I still miss my wife everyday, so cherish the time you get with her, and make every day a really good one for her.
@jennconn I'm with you girl! I would give up dressing if I had to in order to keep her. Luckily I don't have to do that. I am definitely not upset about the family time together. That makes the pill much easier to swallow I don't mind missing the event for family time, after all, you can't have your cake and eat it too. I will get other opportunities to hang with the girls.
@dannydior301 You know that you have to be patient, especially with recent events upsetting her. Getting upset won't help.
By the sound of things, good communication will be the key to managing things going forward.
@harriette I just have to ask her to set aside some time dedicated to just talking about Danni. We never discuss her for more than a few minutes at a time, and the conversation needs to be longer. We will get there for sure.
@dannydior301 Yeah, my wife avoids those kinds of discussions, too. I think that she doesn't want to face the situation and have to deal with it.
@dannydior301 it’s better to pick your battles wisely. I’m guessing your wife knew what she was doing. If you give in gracefully, she’ll know she owes you one. That may leave her to be even more supportive to the next one. Maybe it was the get together that she didn’t like and just the dressing part.
@robertaf it is all about cooperation, even though I think she will always know she has the final say. And I guess I’m ok with that because she does let Danni exist without too much flack most of the time.
@dannydior301 I think its best for your mental health and your relationships to put aside any thought about how the event on May 3rd came about. Focus on enjoying the event with your wife and family.
@kimdl94 yeah, I’m over it now. The initial disappointment hit pretty hard because of the excitement I had over it the last few weeks. Now I get family time in addition to more time to prep and shop for the next event!
I feel for you Danni, on the other hand you are privileged to have a supporting wife. While I have too a supporting wife, I feel that she does not comprehend how my CD activities are important to me. Without being intended, we sometime do not express well how it is important to us. My saying is there will be other opportunities and our relationship is more important.
Good luck
Denise
@isabella22 Yes, you are correct. It is not the end of the world. I am sure I will be out soon enough. We are SO lucky to have partners that allow us any grace to do the things we do. Maybe that could be part of it...to sit her down and express to her just how much I appreciate the acceptance and how much she means to me. Then I can dive into the deep waters and try to express how important it is for me to not only be Danni, but be Danni with other ladies like her. I think she needs to know the joy and mental relief it brings me.
I know you didn't ask for advice and yet here it is anyway 🤣; 'my bad.
You might have missed the moment Danni. I think it's a little too late to bring the subject up now, before May 3rd, and perhaps in hindsight, it would have been more fruitful to have said when she told you about the tickets, "You DO remember I had that CD event booked for that day?"
Unfortunately, the moment has passed and I'm not sure there's anything you can do about it short of saying, 'no, I'm not going', and I fear that may be rather a bad idea.
I'd leave it now until after 3rd May then bring it up again, telling her in no uncertain terms when the next CD outing is and that you WILL be going (after all, she owes you now whether it was deliberate or not).
Try to have fun at the event and don't give her the satisfaction of appearing annoyed; your day will come.
Becca
@rebeccabaxter Yes, I certainly cannot stand my ground at this point. Thankfully, there are some lovely ladies in this group that are geographically close to me and they hold regular outings. I will have another opportunity for sure.
In life something that you look forward to has to be cancelled due to a double book. It doesn't also apply to crossdressing. Yes you may have mentioned it but it happens. Who gives way? If you want to endure a frosty silence then you do what you feel is best and withdraw. Next time give plenty of warning, get it in her diary and keep her updated. If she then comes up with an alternative a rather adult conversation should take place as as good as her acceptance is, she may have doubts still.
That's my opinion....
@ab123 Good point. I definitely take some of the blame on this one. I certainly don't mind the alternate event, it is good family time. If the double-booked event was something undesirable and unbearable, I may have said something immediately..."dinner with your mother?...I HAVE PLANS!"
"dinner with your mother?...I HAVE PLANS!"
I would have said that anyway, even if my only plan was to file my nails! 🤣
@dannydior301 Yeah, that's a tough spot, girl. The timing is...suspiciously unfortunate. She knows how much the outings mean, and you told her about this. I feel it certainly would have been valid for you to say, "Hey, but I've already got plans that weekend."
Even if you did volunteer to forego your plans for hers, did she seem remorseful about forcing your hand?
@melodeescarlet at this point, I’m not sure she even knows. That’s what I have to inquire about. I know it was a big, started and highlighted date on my mental calendar. For her, it may have been “I knew you had something planned in May, but not sure what day”. I definitely have to talk to her about it. As you know, she is a super supportive wife, I sure hope that hasn’t changed.
**UPDATE**
I decided to forward the hotel cancellation to our shared email account. When my wife saw it, she asked “did you have a hotel reservation?” I explained that I did and why and she replied, “I have no idea what you’re talking about”. She says she doesn’t remember me saying anything about the event. I told her that I was planning on going to one at the end of May and asked if she would be ok with that. I could tell that she was not thrilled. She eventually said, “Well, I’m not going with you”. I asked why she was so apprehensive and she said, “I would like you to keep your job”. If you’ve seen my pics, you may have noticed very prominent tattoos on my leg and upper arms. She worries that a photo would be taken and somebody would be able to identify me thus ending my career. I told her I would wear a long dress with sleeves. She’s still not happy but didn’t come right out and forbid me from attending. Looks like I may have some more work to do. Thanks for all the suggestions and support!
XOXO
Danni
@dannydior301 She's not wrong about being outed by a photo. Years ago there was a photo in our CD/TG meetup group after a shopping trip, and my ex (then wife) was on the trip and in the photo. Her sister found the photo, probably from doing an image search (which was probably in it's infancy; I'm sure image searching has improved over the years).
While this wasn't carreer ending or even relationship ending, it points out that matches can be made from more than your own face.
@alison-anderson today’s technology can be so fantastic in helping us support each other and share our joys, but can be our worst enemy at the same time. I’m glad to have my wife as the rational thinker, because Lord knows I have not been lately when it comes to dressing up. She is truly just looking out for me, even if I don’t like to hear what she’s saying sometimes.
It turns out that’s one of the reasons she doesn’t want to attend anything with me. My face alone in makeup and a wig probably won’t out me, but if I’m with her people will definitely recognize me.
@dannydior301 I had a sense that I would be wise to wait before commenting on this one Danni. Sure enough, your update at the end of the string confirmed my suspicion. Which initially was - “I’ll bet his wife has no idea she interfered with anything regarding his little hobby.” And sure enough… My wife is the same…although she’s totally accepting, my crossdressing is just NO BIG DEAL to her. And never on her radar. So let’s look at the main takeaway here: SCORE!👩🦳 Another successful mission Captain!
That said, for the future, just make sure you apprise her of any girly whirls you plan for the future. Put it on her calendar if need be.
I just need to express to her the supreme joy I get from dressing up.
This is another toughie, even us with the understanding spouses. It’s embarrassing talking about our intense love of girly-ness. To women, it’s no biggie - of course they take it for granted, it’s just their mode of dress. For us it’s really special, something we don’t do everyday (most of us), and we just love every aspect of it. It’s really challenging to convey that to your wife without feeling like a complete gay boy. Seriously, it’s not the most macho subject to talk about with your wife. For sure. That’s what makes the communication about it much harder than with your mainstream hobbies, such as fishing.
She’s also right to be concerned about your being spotted as Danni. Tattoos are a biggie. I’d be buying opaque tights myself.🥰. I’ve even had a few moments here on CDH of thinking…”That pic sure resembles….” Fortunately I check the profile and see they live in a different state from me so there’s no way that could be who I’m thinking of. Because the online social media community would never be deceitful. Everybody knows that.🤣
GP
@gracepal I can certainly adjust my wardrobe and fashion styles to further hide my secret identity. I’ve reached a place where I have given up on all the sexy, young girl things. I can still be beautiful in a long sleeve Maxi dress. I just love high heeled sandals and I have always heard no tights with sandals. If I can get around this “fashion faux pas” I could probably slide into some opaque tights too. As for talking to my wife, the embarrassment is even worse because I believe I am more girly than her. She’s not into dressing up very much. I wear dresses more than her and I certainly own more high heels than her. She may not have any at this point! I can’t even talk her into a mani/pedi day because that’s “not her thing”. Come on girl! 🤣
@dannydior301 Funny you mention that Danni. I just remarked to my wife this morning that I love the fact that she always looks nice every day. For no reason other than her own pride. She’s always had a policy of never go out looking at all unkempt. Makeup is a must at all times. And since the re-emergence of Grace - she’s taken to wearing dresses almost every day. So she’s looking cuter than ever! We call ourselves the “Goodwill Girls”. 🥰
@dannydior301 Danni, there are various arm and leg foundations that can cover up your tattoos temporarily so that pictures won't reveal them. Sally Jensen makes a good product; I use that to cover scars and veins in my legs.
Hope to see you on 5/31! I'll be there, and I'll have a room.
Leah
@altrealtraveller I have seen that. Do you know if it rubs off easily. I have a lot of real estate to cover and worry about getting it all over my clothes.
Really hoping to be there May 31. I have a room reserved too! 🤞🏻
@dannydior301 Danni, I don't know how much it can rub off, as I use it primarily in the summer with short dresses or skirts. I do know it comes off quickly with water; found that out the hard way by going swimming and forgetting I'd put it on earlier! Brown water!
Perhaps some other readers of this thread can offer suggestions on products to cover up tattoos that can be easily removed and not stain clothing.
Leah
Hey Danni,
Good to let your frustrations out in a rant. Since you have 4 outings a year let this opportunity slide and plan for the next. Sometimes it’s best not to rock the boat.
Alice
@aliceunderwire So true. I haven't been out at all yet, so I have 4 to go to in the next 7 months. I should be good as I know I'll have a down-phase during the summer. Once fall hits and the pink fog rolls in again I will have 3 trips left! I can't wait!!!
@dannydior301 You could use 1 for the Christmas holidays. You mentioned you’re down in the summer time and I was going to suggest a summer fun outing to show off a cute sun dress. Fall is a great time of the year and Halloween is generally a crossdresser’s favorite holiday. That leaves late Spring or another Autumn outing. Perhaps, a weekend getaway after your daughter returns to school and your wife might join you for a spa visit.
Alice
