Welcome to Crossdresser Heaven, a safe and welcoming place for everyone in the crossdresser community.
Join Crossdresser Heaven today to participate in the forums.
I see quite a few posts on here advising closeted girls to just get out there, life's too short, no one notices, etc.
On the other hand there are a couple of recent threads, one about blackmail and one about embarrassment over lace underwear at the doctors.
I have been wondering for a while about why I do care so much? I certainly wouldn't have gone to the doctors wearing female underwear let alone going out anywhere in obviously female outer garments. In fact I even struggle to go out in brightly coloured male clothes, anything beyond drab is a concern.
I have a few thoughts on why I do care (and I realise these could possibly cause offence which I honestly don't intend):
- I do care about how I look and am perceived by others and certainly appearance-wise have a strong desire to fit in
- I really don't want to inflict myself upon the world, I want to tread softly and unnoticed through life. On rare occasions I have bought female clothing in person I know I have been noticed as a man in the women's wear area. I don't know what those doing the noticing were thinking but the fact that they noticed gives me concern
- I don't want to cause upset. Alongside all those who are accepting, there are people who (for what ever reason) find cross dressers scary, repulsive, transgressive
- I struggle to deal with uncomfortable situations, being hassled, commented on. I was once walking though town wearing a cap which whilst just grey was a bit hipsterish/trendy and a homeless guy sat on the pavement said "Nice hat" in a tone which a bit sarcastic. This was years ago and I've not worn the cap since and am squirming when I think of the incident. So the thought of being commented on whilst cross dressed is absolutely mortifying.
I have a very male face and body shape, particularly my upper body which is more gorilla than girl and there is no way I would ever come across as effete or feminine. I like to think it would be a bit easier if I was slightly more androgynous, probably not because clearly much of this is in my head and about my body.
I'm not at all trying to say that those who are out and about don't care, I really admire you and wish I could join you. I am trying to understand the hurdles so that I can may be try to find a way past them.
What are your thoughts, if you are still in the closet do you recognise any of this. How do I move on?
@butteryeffect I guess for me it was age and experience. When I was younger <40 I had the same thoughts. I once told my wife that I had an image to maintain and could not go out in sweats to the hardware store. However, as I have aged I have found I do not care as much. Yes, I still try to look decent and still do not go to the "big city" in sweats but will run down to Walmart in them. I only went out as Diana a few times in those days and it was always far far away from home. Now I am more comfortable in my skin or even her skin and go out as often as I can sneak out from my DADT wife. Which is not near often enough.
@butteryeffect Hi Cathy.
Thank you for this very thoughtful and compassionate post. In an ideal world I would love to go out en femme, but the fear of ridicule or worse puts me off. Like you, I really admire those who are able to go out and wish I was as brave but a dear friend of mine who dresses almost full time has suffered abuse by some people. I literally am not strong enough to do as she does.
Wendy x
@butteryeffect The next time you are hanging out in the women's wear section, take a good look at the women. You will find some with a masculine face or disproportionate body. At 6' 240 lbs I am not exactly built for passing, but I do.
It's all about presentation and attitude. I make a point to dress well, but not over dress. I wear make up, but it isn't overdone. I make it a point to wear at least 3 pieces of jewelry.....let's say necklace, earrings and bracelet .....preferably matching. Most of all, I walk around as though I own the place. Don't forget to smile, and say a barely audible 'good morning' if you make eye contact with another woman.
It is not about what someone else thinks of me, it's about what I think of me!
Best wishes going forward
Jules
@juliarey Do you think I haven't looked at women? I'm glad for you that it is about what you think of you.
@butteryeffect Caring too much about what others say? I do the same and I have spent years in therapy talking about this. I can't tell anyone else why they care too much. I know why I care too much and I am taking steps to heal it. For me, this whole thing is a healing journey.
I have been told the same, maybe in different words. They aren't your friends if they leave you when you come out. But what about family? My grown children are a bit on the conservative side, so if I come out, then I don't get to see my grandchildren. Is it right? No. Is it fair? No. But that is the reality at this moment of my situation.
Someday I may fling the closet door open. It will be on my terms. I have decided at this time that I will be half out of the closet. That satisfies my authentic self enough that I don't feel depressed. My decision, my life, my journey.
@butteryeffect as Robert Burns said, oh what a gift… to see ourselves as others see us. interestingly, that expression can be taken two ways. Some people have grossly over inflated image of themselves, while others see every flaw in themselves. The other may see the opposite in us. And just like us, the impressions of others can be overly generous or needlessly derogatory. And yet, there is a value to step back from oneself and try to imagine how we are perceived by others.
@butteryeffect This post is hard to reply to without feeling I am giving offence, but I'm going to try.
You are shy, painfully so. You don't wish to stand out; you don't want anyone to notice you; you don't want to hide in the background, you want to BE the background. I could go on, but you already know these things.
When you act as you appear to be doing, you are not living your best life, you are allowing other people to run your life and they don't even know they are, much less care very much.
Going out dressed is a big step and you are a long way from that, but not because you have a very male shape and looks, these can be dealt with relatively easily. No, what's stopping you from going out, or indeed doing anything you perceive as being noticeable by others, is your attitude to them. You think that if you don't blend in, even as a male, people are going to see you and judge you. Well, let me tell you, everyone gets judged, everyone. The most 'normal' person in the world will get judged because they are too 'normal'.
The following people get judged all the time:
Tall women, small men, small women, tall men. People wearing jeans that are a little too baggy. People who have a funny walk, drive an overly large car, or speak with an accent. Fat people, thin people, people who like dogs, or cats or keep snakes as pets. I'll not go on, I could though. I could walk into the street now and find someone with something about them that I could judge them on. It doesn't change their lives, they're not thinking what I am thinking, they don't care what I think. But you do. You care very much what I [and others] think; it affects your life and it shouldn't.
You are suffering a crisis of confidence, you may always have done, and there is no quick fix, but that doesn't mean you can't try.
Here on CDH there are a myriad of different looks, styles, abilities, opinions, but they are all to do with cross-dressing and the trials and tribulations that go with it. Also here are people with the same anxieties as yourself, or indeed, people who have none of those hang-ups.
We here can't know the reasons you feel so insecure, we can only offer our support while you try to be the best woman you can be.
With that in mind, perhaps the first and least stressful thing you can do to start on your journey 'out there' is to let us know more about you. Put some biographical information in your profile, post a couple of photographs so we can see what you look like. If you can't let yourself go, even a little bit, here in CDH, you'll never be able to do it anywhere. So start small, try opening up on Crossdresser Heaven; you will not be judged here and it might just be the first step on a whole new path.
Hugs
Becca
xx
@rebeccabaxter I'm am not at all shy and its not about judgement. As I said I know how I feel in uncomfortable situations and I don't want to others to feel uncomfortable around me.
@butteryeffect Then I've obviously got it all wrong, I tried. Please disregard everything I said.
@rebeccabaxter I was just thinking this too. For a lot of us we get to involved with what others think. Instead of thinking for ourselves. Thank you for saying this.
@butteryeffect When people say to get out there they forget that every person's situation is different. Coming out and not caring about the consequences is not something everyone can do.
Every person has to decide what is best for them in their circumstances. You need to look at your life as a whole and decide how you want to proceed.
In my case, I have decided that upending my life is not worth it.
Not sure if it helps or not.
C
@butteryeffect I do out every couple of months and keep away from public areas. Doing that, I am not entirely avoiding people, but am keeping contact low. The clothes I wear if out en-femme tend to be jersey dresses such as Weird Fish or Next. What I cannot hide is being over 6 foot tall.
You can change shape with padding, loose clothes and a belt, wear glasses (plain lens if you don't need them or buy feminine frames). Then accessorise.
In male mode, I mostly wear Nepalese clothes which are very brightly coloured, I do tone it down a bit when en-femme.
@butteryeffect Cathy, you don’t have to move on. You do you. What’s best for other people may not work for you, so don’t worry about it.
@butteryeffect I don't think there's a women in this place that haven't felt the exact same feelings at one time or another, and many of us still do. It's a tough topic to try and explain, and even harder to understand.
Everyone of us are different, and coming out, going out, and being found out is as scary as it comes to us CDers, there is no one size fits all type of advice. That being said, just from this post, it's really about self confidence. It's hard to display the type of confidence a women must display everyday and in every situation, however, if your not very confident in yourself, no matter what form you take, that's going to come through with how you carry yourself, but that's just my opinion
@closetcelt Thank you, its a good point about self confidence, male me is fairly confident, perhaps overly so at times but female me isn't
@butteryeffect What makes you lose confidence as a women? I'm really just curious
For me it's easier being a woman, I'm a very slender man, 5'9 120lbs on a good day, so I lack confidence in male form as I don't possess the strength of a man. As a woman, no one expects me to be strong, and this helps build my confidence, as I said though everyone is different, that's why I asked the above question, I'm really interested to learn more about the topic
I will address some of your points.
I rearranged the order here to deal with the elephant in the room first because I think it is your way out of the box that you feel that you are in.
I like to think it would be a bit easier if I was slightly more androgynous
This is the tactic that will open up your CD life. Crossdressing is a spectrum. You need to figure out what you can do, when (how often), and where. Some CDs only underdress (which 99.57% of CDs can do), but it sounds as if you want to do more and, since you are worried about the opinions others, do more in public or at least around other people.
I dress 100% in women's clothes (because they look better) almost 100% of the time, but one would have to look closely to figure that out. At over 6' tall, short hair, a moustache, and who knows what else, I am not fooling anybody. Most days out, I also use appropriate body shaping, too, to help fill the clothes out and to attain a more rounded shape. I present as a male in nice clothes. Do I get eyes focused on me? You bet! Because I can confuse the hell out of onlookers. Not my problem.
When you go shopping, look for clothes that have less gender hints. You aren't wearing skirts, blouses and dresses outside, so you already have filtered out inappropriate items for you. Jeans and shorts are a good place to start, but even there you need to filter out wide-legs and some flares. Skinny jeans are amazing, so try something new or different.
There are lots of shirts and pullovers / sweaters that can look unisex, even male. I just picked a new top up today. When I entered the store the clerk said the women's clothes were over there and the men's were over here. I turned to the left, of course and found something nice marked down about 70% (end of season sales are great).
The clerk left me alone, so I took the shirt down and measured it with my cloth tape. I also held it up against my chest and knew that it would fit with room to spare. The clerk / cashier said nothing judgemental at all and I left satisfied, with a well made bargain that I can wear anywhere.
If you have a thorough list of your body measurements, you can do the same. You also have the very obvious plausible excuse of "buying it for a friend", if asked. There is no arguing with that.
There is an art to dressing androgynously or in unisex and you get better at it over time. Many CDs here dress this way, so if you have any questions, just ask.
I see quite a few posts on here advising closeted girls to just get out there, life's too short, no one notices, etc.
Very few people do notice in some circumstances. Not all, but in general, this is correct.
However, you don't have to do what other CDs do. Figure out what your own limitations are. Have a target style in mind and buy clothes that you are comfortable wearing in public. Take your time acquiring new clothes, one or two seasonal years to get up to speed.
- I do care about how I look and am perceived by others and certainly appearance-wise have a strong desire to fit in
To one degree or another, don't we all? Again, buy women's fashion that lets you do that, but that also don't shout out, "Hey, look at me!"
- I want to tread softly and [go] unnoticed through life.
We don't want to be completely invisible, though. After all we are crossdressers. 😉
- there are people who (for what ever reason) find cross dressers scary, repulsive, transgressive
Depending on where you live, this is not a big problem. Take the normal precautions so that you don't put yourself in danger.
- I struggle to deal with uncomfortable situations, being hassled, commented on.
If you want to build self-confidence, please take self defense classes. My confidence skyrocketed when I did.
Going to an appropriate therapist sounds like a great Idea for you, too. Understanding why you feel the way about yourself the way you do seems useful here.
I wish I could join you. I am trying to understand the hurdles so that I can may be try to find a way past them.
How do I move on?
You move on if you really want to move on. Having goals and the enthusiasm or drive to get you there will help to make things happen. Dealing with some of your big issues will make the small ones seem easy.
@harriette Thank you for the comprehensive response, I really appreciate it. I do wear female clothes out sometimes, I have some women's jeans and trousers, jumpers, tee shirts etc. but female me wants to be pretty and cute so whilst the androgynous look helps it doesn't fully scratch the itch.
The other thing is that female me would like to socialize a little and to make life more difficult, socialize with cis-women. I guess my comment about being more androgynous was around being able to be a bit like the "gay best friend" in a group of women.
but female me wants to be pretty and cute so whilst the androgynous look helps it doesn't fully scratch the itch.
Since androgynous is my style, I fully understand the unfulfilled need. However, to do more dressing, to make wearing women's clothing a normal part of my life, I accept the compromise.
I would love to wear the pretty stuff in public, too, but I know that it won't be happening any time soon, and my clock is running out of juice.
The other thing is that female me would like to socialize a little and to make life more difficult, socialize with cis-women. I guess my comment about being more androgynous was around being able to be a bit like the "gay best friend" in a group of women.
My guess is that, to be able to do this, you would have to be fully en femme in public. Your top post doesn't suggest that you can do that often.
@butteryeffect Cathy, I completely understand and sympathise.
I was raised in a household where my mum and gran were very much of the 'what will people think?!' mentality, post-war aspirational working-class and social conformity generation. It was more or less drilled into me that you 'don't make a show of yourself'... my mum's idea of a good career for me would have been working in a building society or bank! But it made me very self-conscious and rather shy and easily embarrassed. I still find wearing hats make me feel a little too conspicuous!
Anyway, suffice to say that I didn't go down that route and consequently have a clear conscience but not much money 🙂 I am however very happy, but still have those self-consciousness hang-ups about being seen and judged, so don't fully crossdress outside (unless it's in another part of the country lol) and am only out to my partner and the various charity shop assistants who chat with me when I'm shopping for clothes.
I reckon that if you are happy as you are, carry on, but if you aren't happy, you need to confront it. You don't need to out yourself completely; talking online is one thing, but sharing how you are with someone in real life, really, really helps.
@caroline2k Thank you, I think that sums up my background and it is really affirming to know that someone else has that experience
@butteryeffect This is a really good post and one I can definitely relate to. I recognize everything you’re talking about Cathy. The variety of responses for this one are certainly varied and interesting. It’s reassuring and heartening to see all the good-intentioned replies. This little crossdressing “thing” of ours is not as easy at it seems.
My first reaction to your post is: “How do you move on from what?” Is it caring what other people think? And what is it you want to move on to? Being out in public as your girly self? If that’s your goal there’s no shortage of good advice in the responses to your topic here. When I think of “moving on” in my own journey, I ask myself what is it you want to accomplish with all this? I keep coming back to - well, not much of anything really. I love my life how it is. I love my hobby at the level it is now. Do I want it to consume more of my life? No. Raise my adrenaline by risking going out and about? I don’t think it’s for me. Not at this stage anyway. But I’m also older too. There’s a finite amount of time for things which plays into the equation. The “window of opportunity” will close at some point and I’ll bail on the whole thing. Father Time always remains undefeated.
I think where this topic gets murky is somewhere between your ‘caring what others think and not wanting to cause any upset’ and your feelings toward your public presentation as female. You know you’re not there yet and due to extenuating circumstances, might never get there. And not just looks-wise. You have to please your inner self here as well.
That’s the part I relate to. As I evolve in my “Gracefulness” -looks wise, I’m never going to be all in effete or feminine. It’s just not in my makeup. If I looked good enough to pass undetected I would still talk manly. Think manly. I would be well aware that I don’t want to “act gay” while dressed up. I can only take the impersonation so far until male whatever kicks in and says “that’s enough”. It’s hard to describe. Sort of a “Jekyll/Hyde” mentality towards crossdressing. For me.
There’s two types of people who care what others think: Men and women. We say we don’t but we do. We notice if others notice us. If they say something to us. Pretty normal behavior IMO. We all like to think we’re doing a pretty good job at whatever it is we’re doing. We seek approval for our efforts. Crossdressing is certainly no different.
I s’pose my advice is: Figure out what it is you want to move on to. Analyze the value proposition - “what will I get out of this?” Then take small steps towards that goal.
Yesterday I was out shopping. I went by another customer, a lady, pushing her cart. My tranny detector went off. I looked back…that looks like a wig I thought. A tall lady too. No backside to speak of. Loose fitting jeans on her. Sweater. I maneuvered around the aisles trying to check her out. Went at her head on with my cart…got a smile, then a quick head turned down and I smiled back. No voice though. Pretty sure it was a fellow sister but happy to say - I could not tell positively for sure. My first thought was this is one of my sisters venturing out for the first time. I instantly loved her and felt a kinship. Happened across her at least 3 more times in my outing and all 3, a sweet smile. I’m kicking myself today for not saying hi and some type of small talk. But I also sensed nervousness from her, head down, not wanting to be attracting any attention looks wise. And whether male or female, she did a great job. I saw myself in her. I imagined that was me, shopping en femme. I asked myself: “Would I do it?” Then I answered myself: “No.” Not today.🥰
GP
@gracepal Thank you for this, I really appreciate your thoughtful response which I have read several times. I think one of my issues is I really don't know what I want, I am always both my male self and my female self so if I am out and about both of me are there.
@butteryeffect Ya know, that’s a great way to put it simply. One self doesn’t erase the other self with outer clothing. It seems that it does for some of us though. Or that they’re trying to go all in on their fem identities as much as possible and exclude their male selves more and more. My selves get along pretty well with one another. For me, it doesn’t have to be one or the other.
@butteryeffect In my case, I am something of a perfectionist which held me back for a long time. You can only imagine how that held me back from opening the door. This was one of the issues that I addressed with the counselor I saw to address my gender issues. Eventually, I embraced the concept of "good enough" which allowed me to get out the door. For me dressing to blend is a big help too. Observing women out in the wild was also a big help in helping me set some standards. I will always be a work in progress and trying to improve myself continually but now I can get out in the world as Lauren and live.
Cathy - I have been in the same place as you for far too many decades that I'd like to admit.
It took a life altering event - open heart surgery coming up - to put everything in to focus.
Since then, and waiting for the surgery, I've had an awaking - and as I go out dressed more and more, I realize most people don't give a flying.
And the hardest part is for YOU not to give a flying. That's the hardest part.
I've spent the better part of 50 years hiding myself. And I don't any more as I'm stepping out more and more as a woman. I don't know if I will ever go full girl-mode, but I will enjoy it when I can.
Don't hide. Nobody but you cares. I've gone for a walk almost fully dressed and part of my pink blouse showed out under my boy jacket. Nobody cared.
It's hard for sure to take that first step. It's REALLY FU***NG hard. When you do take it, it's SO rewarding.
Love
Rachelle
@butteryeffect I love this post and love the thought process you've put into this .
I think the answer is everyone is different, some of us are extroverts some not so much , some of us like being taken notice of some don't ...
personally , I've never cared what anyone else thinks of me , I'll wear a tutu out if I want or wear my pjs and if someone shouted across the street like your tutu I'd shout back thank youuuuuu!!!
however , my best friend completely different, oh my she hates any attention, no idea why she's gorgeous but like you with the hat anything she wears if someone comments on it she won't wear again. She sticks with black drab clothing as much as possible & nothing I say or do will change her.
I think the same goes for CDs there's no reason why you should or shouldn't do something / not do something .
it's ok for us all to be different and that's what makes the world go round 😍💕🙏🌈
@butteryeffect your reasons are all valid. There is need to feel that you have any obligation to go out in public. At the same time, I would guess that you hesitate in part out of a fear of adverse reaction. I had the same apprehensions and discovered first hand that most people don’t notice and those who do, don’t care.
@butteryeffect I hear you sis. At this point of my life I don't really feel like coming out of the closet. I just would like to find a group of friends just to share and be my woman self.
@butteryeffect The older I get, the less I care. It seems that I have suppressed my girl self for too long.
I go out dressed from the neck down, guy face, guy haircut, guy voice. I don't pass. Yet, I have received genuine compliments on my outfits, my confidence, my jewelry, or just my smile. I have been lucky to meet women out and about who somehow felt they should compliment me. And it felt so good. I preserve those memories with some of my posts on here and read them years later. It feels so good.
I've been out and about for over 15 years now. First I took the chance of meeting someone locally who I had met online at a local LGBT bar. They introduced me to two friends, and they introduced me to two friends until I was hanging out regularly with about a dozen girls. I even met groups of girls when I was out of town on business. I've got to the Keystone (TG) Conference for 10 years, with 500+ girls.
I've gone shopping alone or with a couple of friends, but typically, I'm out with girl friends. Admittedly, I'm well within the range of a typical GG, 5'9", 145 lbs., but there's nothing like going out en femme. Jump in the pool. The water is not too cold.
I am not able to leave the house en femme so it's not a problem for me to solve at the moment. However, it is something I think about a lot and I have the same concerns as you. However, I enjoy my feminine side and would like to express it more openly. A lot of the ladies here say go for it you will most likely have nothing but positive experiences. That is probably true but it doesn't make the fear of embarrassment and or ridicule any less real. I think I would probably, at least initially, only go out in safe places like CD support groups if i were to get the opportunity.
@michellemybell Where some of us live, some can just go for it… but many of us can’t, for many different reasons . If I could dress totally fem and be out and about it would be amazing, I’d love to do it, but I’m not passable , so I enjoy what I can wear, around home, and I wear ladies clothing that won’t draw attention out and about. Some of our communities are just not ready for us, and we need to keep our families in mind and how our dressing affects us and them . It’s a crazy world out there!! Hugs.. Jo
Hi Cathy,
It's not an impossible question. I can see where you are coming from. More than a few girls on here are able to express a 'you can do it ' opinion. And I applaud them for arriving at that point.
Bear in mind though many will have had thoughts similar to yours in their time and many will agree it didn't happen overnight. Often the circumstances you are in have a big influence in how you express yourself. Even so, some travel the road quicker and sometimes further than others. But remember it's not a race. Some set themselves specific goals , others like me more or less just go with the flow waiting for something to happen or 'settle' in my mind - and it does in its own sweet time. And then you move on to another hurdle 😉
I just say try not to get impatient or frustrated. And be kind to yourself !
Emma x
It is a personal thing and because others do something does not mean you should as well. We all have our reasons, but you do you, and I will do me. I like to go out, you don't, and that is fine. Some people like classical music, some like country...to each thier own.
Hi Cathy! Lots to unpack here, so this is gonna be a read (sorry). I think possibly the top point is this one:
In fact I even struggle to go out in brightly coloured male clothes, anything beyond drab is a concern.
In any mode you're keenly aware of your appearance and make a concerted effort to keep it low profile. This may take some introspection - why do you feel this is the case? What makes you not want to stand out or shine, even just a little?
I do care about how I look and am perceived by others and certainly appearance-wise have a strong desire to fit in
I think this is true for virtually everyone. We want to look in a way that we feel represents us in the best light. Fitting in is the most basic among 'tribal' animals (humans topping that list). We need to fit it so that we can belong to a tribe because a tribe = safety. Belonging to a group provides the protection of the group. So, you're no different than anyone else in this regard.
However, you can fit in in lots of ways - it doesn't have to be in every way. Surely you like some things that other people don't like, yes? So, it needn't be 100%.
I really don't want to inflict myself upon the world, I want to tread softly and unnoticed through life. On rare occasions I have bought female clothing in person I know I have been noticed as a man in the women's wear area. I don't know what those doing the noticing were thinking but the fact that they noticed gives me concern
Girl, how is going out to just be yourself "inflicting yourself upon the world"? Why don't you have the same right as everyone else to just go outside and be you? What makes you feel unworthy to do so?
Secondly, as you correctly noted, when someone 'notices' you how can you possibly know what they're thinking? You cannot. Maybe they're a CD and wondering if you are. Maybe they're admiring something about your appearance. As there is absolutely no knowing - why expend any energy over it? I feel like there are much better uses of your energy. 🙂
I don't want to cause upset. Alongside all those who are accepting, there are people who (for what ever reason) find cross dressers scary, repulsive, transgressive.
Certainly a fact - some people out there are scared by/offended by/leery of people under the Trans umbrella, but 1) How can you tell which ones they are? and 2) What can you do about it? Maybe they're worried they're gay if they think you look good. Maybe they had a relative that ruined their family due to being CD/TG. Maybe they're just having a crap day.
Someone's reaction to you is entirely about them, and not in any way about you.
I struggle to deal with uncomfortable situations, being hassled, commented on. I was once walking though town wearing a cap which whilst just grey was a bit hipsterish/trendy and a homeless guy sat on the pavement said "Nice hat" in a tone which a bit sarcastic. This was years ago and I've not worn the cap since and am squirming when I think of the incident. So the thought of being commented on whilst cross dressed is absolutely mortifying.
I realize that it is a somewhat American perspective to have - IMO being a small island nation, a bit like the Japanese (but not as strongly), the English tend to have a strong sense of "I need to be careful not to rock the boat" - but why does that person get to have any say in what hat you choose to wear?
If you loved coffee and were enjoying one and some stranger walked by and said, "Eww, coffee's gross!" - I mean, right, great, 'go eff yourself, fella'. Again a distinctly American attitude and probably as a nation we do it too often, but in a situation like this - why does their opinion matter? What you're doing effects them not one iota.
I have a very male face and body shape, particularly my upper body which is more gorilla than girl and there is no way I would ever come across as effete or feminine. I like to think it would be a bit easier if I was slightly more androgynous, probably not because clearly much of this is in my head and about my body.
First of all, the universal disclaimer: You are guaranteed to be your own harshest critic. However bad you think it is, I assure you, you're the only one who thinks so.
Moving on...
I'm looking at your photo and, while I realize it is a single photo, you do not appear to resemble Andre the Giant or Shaquille O'Neal or some otherwise huge, hulking figure. On the contrary I think you look amazingly good. But here's the thing: what I think, what some stranger thinks, what anyone else thinks does not matter. The only thing that matters is what you think.
My advice would be to seek some help. A professional who can help you work on what's got you on this path of ensuring your head is kept down. CDing doesn't even need to come up. I think if you can come to some realization about what's planted this seed, you can start to go about changing how it grows.
My door is always open.
Hugs,
M
@melodeescarlet Thank you for taking the time, there is real wisdom in what you say.
What makes you not want to stand out or shine, even just a little?
I'll flip that round and ask why would I want to stand out and shine? I really don't, I genuinely have no desire to do that.
Girl, how is going out to just be yourself "inflicting yourself upon the world"?
Suppose I was keen on snakes and insisted on taking my pet snake to the supermarket every time I went shopping. A lot of people are given "the ick" by snakes and whilst I could say "its a free country, I'll take my my pet where ever I like" there is a sensitivity, an empathy, in making concessions and following social norms.
I'm looking at your photo and, while I realize it is a single photo, you do not appear to resemble Andre the Giant or Shaquille O'Neal or some otherwise huge, hulking figure
I'm not huge an hulking, but I am stocky and barrel chested with reasonable sized biceps and big hands. it's about proportions. Also that is a 2D photo from a favourable angle.
@butteryeffect Thanks for reading all of that! You make valid points. To continue a quality discussion, I'll reply with:
1) I would note that not liking to stand out isn't exactly the same as no spotlight ever, please and thank you. I think it's still worth an internal looksee to find out why you feel that way. Maybe it still reveals something that you're not consciously aware of.
Additionally, if there is ever a plan to go out dressed, then being at least somewhat comfortable with the knowledge that people may look just comes with the territory. After all, what can you do about it? Then again, you could just go out with me and you'll merely be the person with that outlandish redhead. lol
2) A lot of people are given the ick by snakes. And? If you're taking your snake up to their face and saying 'isn't he an adorable scaly little fella?', well then, yes, possibly bad form, but that isn't our scenario - be it snakes or CDing.
If I'm given the ick by Brussels sprouts or the color blue, is everyone compelled to ensure I never have to encounter those? We cannot be bound to live our lives always conceding to everyone else's icks. At some point other people's icks have to be the domain of other people.
3) I guarantee you I can go stand on a busy street corner and note a dozen cis women with similar proportions to yours - probably in under an hour, no less. I feel the issue is that you're taking every lens you have and focusing it on every aspect of you and only noting how you don't look like Hannah Waddingham (ooo be still my beating heart! 😍 ) or whichever woman has your ideal look.
Let me tell you the story of Gennifer Teal, a CD/TG I met at a large trans conference. I saw her sitting in the lobby. When she stood up it took her about 2 minutes. She is probably about 6'5" flat footed...and she was wearing 6" platform heels, so a solid 6'10".
My friend, who is a bit older, said, 'Tall girls shouldn't wear heels like that. Makes them stand out.' I looked at my friend and said, "She's gonna be tall in flats. She's just decided to take ownership of that and say, "Oh, you think this is tall? Here, hold my drink."
If your appearance is pretty much set (height, stature, body frame, etc) then OWN that. Once it's yours, no one can use it against you. So whatever your look is, write up the deed and buy in, girl. I think you'll find it is unbelievably empowering.
Finally, I'll add this: In all of the conversations with all the girls I've met - in person or online - I've never heard a single one tell me, "Y'know, I wish I'd started doing this later."
@melodeescarlet Google Keith Brymer Jones, that's the body shape we are working with. Whilst there are bound to be trans people who can fully pass, I can and do spot MtF people, even very convincing ones and whilst there are bound to be women with some of my proportions the total combination is never present in a cis-woman. But all of that is a diversion, its not about passing.
I know there are people of all shapes and sizes and I know that some trans people just get on with it regardless of body shape, height, (I'm 5'7 BTW so not tall and there are plenty of women taller than me) or whatever and good for them. However its not for me.
Coincidentally for the first time in my life I spoke to a therapist earlier today, I know I have issues and this thread is really helping. May be also see my post lower down this thread, the point I make there is that I am bi-gender and female me doesn't want to cause upset and hates conflict, male me can't see the point of wearing anything other than jeans and a jumper.
@butteryeffect A quick note: I'm not trying to convince or persuade you of anything, only present a way of viewing things that perhaps you hadn't considered.
I'm really glad that you've reached out to a therapist! A good one will do just that: present some angle you hadn't looked from.
This site has so many here that have differing ways, whys and wherefores in dressing, it's like a comparison website where you can see the choices, pick the one you want and go with it. There is no pressure to choose any as you could happily stay where you are.
However is there something that you do find attractive and would like to do but are afraid to to change as you will be out of your comfort zone with something different.
So it's a case of despite your fears where would you really like to go and how to overcome the fears?
There are a plethora of experiences here where girls have overcome many of your issues have progressed because they felt the need to do so and something that has already been mentioned and an opportunity to ask away to see how they did it and perhaps gain the confidence to try.
I saw a lot of my issues reading your post. I felt it just wouldn't happen, I am not a confident person, hated being commented on negatively and so on but even without C.D.H. I managed to do it and it took decades, others have done it in a blink of an eye. The thing was I knew where I wanted to go and bit the bullet overcoming one fear then the next until reaching the goal.
I saw the negative side of it all too then found that it wasn't actually as bad because if it were as bad as thought no one would step out the door.
Whatever you choose to do just be happy where you are and if you have ambition you'll get the support you need here.
Hi Cathy,
Since you don't have very much information in your profile.... I went and read many of your posts over the last 2 years, just to get a better sense of you. Maybe work on the profile a bit.
I share much of your trepidation.
The 4 bullet point items you list resonate very strongly with me, so I won't waste time agreeing with what I identify with.
But i am also not going to give you a list of things that maybe I don't agree with.
The membership here might have the commonality of "men in women's clothing" but the variety of types of ladies here is as diverse as the rest of the whole world. What works for some, might not work for others.
So all I can say is, WE are in the right place with the right ladies. Keep asking questions and making posts and replies. Individual growth varies, but tending the garden is so important.
But above all else.... no matter what anyone says..... you do you.
Hugs,
Autumn
@augustvaliant Thank you, I really appreciate that you have taken the time to read some of my posts. A few people have mentioned my profile. I never know what to say in those profile posts, its not that I am shy or particularly hiding things, I simply do not know what to write.
I agree this is a great place.
Thank you all for your posts, I think I have found a better way of expressing where I am coming from and its about sensitivity and empathy. Perhaps I am over sensitive and overly concerned about how I might make other people feel? That said I can be crass, boorish and brutally honest in real life. I also know that I am also dull, boring and easily run out of things to say.
In away I think that reflects my bi-gender, two-spirit existence. Female me doesn't want to cause upset and hates conflict, male me can't see the point of wearing anything other than jeans and a jumper.
And taking onboard the feedback I've updated my profile.
You be you. If other's aren't comfortable that's their problem, not yours. I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned but don't overdo it. Think more about making yourself more comfortable and less about other people's feelings.
I am blown away by all the responses to this post, thank you all so much, it is so heart-warming to know that there is such a fantastic, caring community here.
This has been a great exploration of my inner workings and I have arrived at another word ...
courage
which is something I lack, or at least in this area of life. Some people would regard some of the things I do as brave but I am cautious in this area of my life.
Great topic Cathy - I'm closeted and have always been satisfied being so. Not so much a being scared thing with me, I've just never really had a specific desire to go out dressed (aside from panties underneath). Part of it is that 99% of my wardrobe is romantic lingerie so can't wear that in public lol but also that I get enough validation from my boyfriend and thus I don't feel a need to have people seeing me dressed in public, even though I believe I'd pass if all dolled up. I've got my lingerie, a great boyfriend, a great life, and that's all I need.
I went out in public for the first time late last year. I was 51 years old and had 40 years of crossdressing under my belt. It was at a public event with other CDers. I was TERRIFIED. It was a fun time and being with a group made it much better. I am nowhere near going out on my own. Even on my very best day, where everything is impeccable, I still look like a man in a dress. My internal voice has always told me that if I went out, I would just want the people who noticed me to say, "There's a man in a dress, but DAMN, he looks good. This is why I am always striving for perfection that I fear I will never find. In addition, I'm pretty sure I will never have the courage for a solo adventure. Strength in numbers!
noticed as a man in the women's wear area
I used to worry about looking through the women’s sale section, waiting for a gap without GGs being there, but now I belligerently think WTH, often as not they seem to clog up looking through the male section. So I just muscle in now.
I used to get an absolute buzz presenting stockings and tights for purchase at the sales counter. I don’t so much these days. Charity (thrift) shops are quite intriguing, once a wizened elderly lady commented when I presented their complete selection of XL tights and stockings “Ooo, there’s a lucky lady out there”. Hadn’t the heart to change her world perhaps and say “Actually, they’re for me…”
I've had some thoughts on this and been debating whether to feed back here or start a new thread. Obviously the coin came down on feeding back here although I suspect it may just get lost. It has been really helpful discussing this with you all and I never expected such a positive experience.
I realise that when it comes to "us" there is no such thing as normal, but having read a lot and discussed aspects of it online there do seem to be some typical patterns. I think I have posted before that my gender experience is somewhere away from those more common patterns. I realised several years ago that I am distinctly bi-gender. I am always me and there are two personalities within me, I am strongly two-spirit.
What this thread has helped me to realise is that female me (understandably) has body dysmorphia. Male me is okay with my body, female me is why I care so much. I had put a lot of my feelings down to internalised transphobia but that didn't sit right because I know that I admire trans people rather than having any sort of phobia about them.
Female me doesn't like the artifice of crossdressing, doesn't like the padding, the wigs, etc. hence why I hardly ever wear them. Female me is a woman, not a crossdresser. Male me has always been very puzzled as to why anyone would wear heels or a skirt and I really can have both feelings at the same time. Female me can be happy in a dress and lipstick whilst simultaneously male me is wondering why anyone would be bothered.
So I think that goes some way to answering my question in the thread title, "Why do I care so much", female me yearns to have some expression and external validation but is very unhappy about how I look when I am presenting female.
