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Masculinity, Femininity, Value, and Diminishment

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I hope this isn’t too long, but I was chatting with my dear friend Marcellette, which made this issue bubble to the surface for me, and I’m always curious what y’all smart folks think about stuff.

For many of us, the revelation of our femme selves to wives/girlfriends carries a very real risk of us being diminished in their eyes. “My man dresses up like a woman and thus is ‘less than’ I thought he was. He voluntarily relinquishes status and power and becomes a lesser weaker thing, and that is unattractive to me.”

So it raises this issue for me: why? This is what I said to Marcellette:

The “diminishment” issue is so interesting to me. It is SO true, but WHY is it true. Why is it “diminishing” for a man to access his feminine side in a physical way, but women are celebrated as heroes and “you go girl” and “girl power” exhortations when, say, they don a football uniform and kick an extra point? Isn’t that the most insidious form of sexism there is? The belief that being feminine is somehow a “lesser” thing that women need to overcome and men should never “fall” in to? Ask ourselves why tomboys are seen as cute and tough and there is almost a pride associated with being that way while “sissies” are derided and ridiculed and looked down upon?

My wife had all sorts of “atta girl” affirmations when she was putting on BDUs and combat boots with a pretty short haircut at times when she was in the Air Force.

Unfortunately, we in humanity have always seemed to twist the positional authority piece and primary creation piece with the “helpmate” piece to make assertions about the relative value of masculinity vs femininity. One is “higher” than the other. One is more valuable than the other. But the reality is that much like the Trinity, it’s about positional authority, headship, and submission — not relative worth or value. And that has twisted this so much for us I think. I think I told you before and maybe sent those Scriptural cites about God exhibiting His feminine attributes, which has been a great comfort for me. But society still advances the proposal — almost without even considering it — that feminine is less valuable than masculine and is something to be “overcome.” To me THAT is the true sexism.

Marcellette and I are both Christians, so we discuss this privately in those terms, but I’m not looking for us to go there here, obviously, being mindful of the rules.

I also don’t want this to be about bashing masculinity, men, and things associated with them as being “toxic.” That is a dangerous, bold faced feminist lie. Masculinity channeled appropriately is a massive force for good in the world — a fallen broken world in which we need men to step into the breach and do some things we’re more uniquely capable of doing than women.

And I think we instinctively know that women are more uniquely capable of doing other things better than men. We ARE made differently, and there is a reason for that. If we weren’t made differently and meant to be the same, then there would be no such thing as transgenderism because there’d be no need to feel like “the other.”

Trying my best to keep this out of the religious realm and looking at it from a societal standpoint, I think men are/were initially to blame for the diminution of femininity as a value. This is probably because of a warped view of provision and physical strength superiority, as well as leadership and “headship.” Leadership and submission became about exerting power and will rather than being about sacrifice and service. Women were thus “held down” by some of the very things meant to liberate them.

Modern feminists, imho, have taken the wrong lesson from this and often seek to abandon their greatest source of power — femininity— by ironically adopting the male view of power, worth, and value and thus seeing feminine the same as “less than.” They strive, always in vain, to make women be the same as men instead of being complementary pieces of equal worth and value. All of the shows that depict women with masculine power — physically and in public stature — seem to indicate that “if only women could be seen more like men, all would be well.” Again, imho, a lie. A dangerous lie.

There is much to be admired about masculinity appropriately exercised. Men who are doing it right are leaders, protectors, providers — they have vision, stoicism, self-control— they sacrifice and serve with courage. They put the needs of others first, and they build and fix. They are sober minded, analytical, and task oriented, but also sensitive, and kind, and selfless. That’s what true masculinity looks like.

(My wife once famously said, “I have no idea what’s wrong with women. Who WOULDNT want to submit to a man whose charge and responsibility is to sacrifice for you, put your needs first, and die for you if necessary?” And I believe that IS my charge and responsibility/role as her husband).

These are all wonderful things, and it’s not that women don’t have many or all of these traits too, but they are packaged differently, manifest themselves differently. Femininity is soft where masculinity is hard. It nurtures, protects, comforts, inspires, creates beauty, has a strong work ethic. It supports, encourages. It is sensitive and emotional. It is relational. It builds relationships while masculinity tends to build stuff. It soothes and inspires the masculine to be better.

So that brings me back to what does this mean for us? Especially those of us, like me, who have been diminished in our female partner’s minds because we access the feminine in such an obvious physical manifest way? We are viewed as less of a man. And that somehow makes us lesser in whole. It doesn’t seem to matter even if we continue to fulfill our roles and responsibilities as men — providing, protecting, leading, and serving — once that vision of the strong (superior in their minds?) male figure is compromised, then our relationship is also compromised and diminished.

I think this provides most of the grist for the angst mill that I’m guessing others like me feel about trying to share with our wives. Wouldn’t it be great if they instead saw this revelation of our feminine parts to our soul as a strengthener? An enhancer of our power and worth? As something that proves we are somehow BETTER because we can access this aspect of ourselves? I think probably most women might even agree that it does, if you really boil it down (as long as you aren’t abandoning your masculine responsibilities), but they don’t understand why the dress has to make the (wo)man... “Why can’t you just access those things without the physical manifestation?” For that, I don’t have an answer, other than again, society views the masculine that exhibits the feminine to be lesser, while the opposite isn’t true. And I feel FAR more comfortable and at home exhibiting feminine if there is no pretense or mask by dressing the part to match how I feel in that moment. I’m just showing you who I am and how I feel in this moment. Tomorrow i’ll probably be back in my suit/tie or flannel shirt/jeans/work boots doing my masculine thing — oh, just like YOU! Lol

Sorry that was so long...

God bless,

Steph

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(@araminta)
Honorable Member     Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
Joined: 5 years ago

This is similar to the viewpoint of Second Wave Feminists that the problem was a gender issue not a sex issue as such as it was the sexist attitudes to gender that led to discrimination and belittlement. It is also why de Beauvoir title her work, "La Deuxieme Sexe", meaning 'second' as lesser in value than males and Greer used, "The Female Eunuch", meaning that a woman was seen as a useless male.

Unfortunately, in order to be 'politically correct', the news media began using 'gender' to mean 'sex' conflating the terms when the original idea was to highlight the distinction. The general public, unaware of the error, began to do so as well. No wonder people get confused.

Araminta.

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Hi Stephanie,

I've spent some time trying to deconstruct your post, and I've probably overdone it!

You seem to bemoan the low status and challenges of cross dressers in a patriarchal society. Cross dressers don't 'fit in', say patriarchal males. So is it at all surprising that women who have bought into patriarchy agree too?

But you also seem very supportive of that same patriarchal society that contributes to the problem in the first place?

Is there not a contradiction here?

And this observation from my feminist wife who died nearly ten years ago - so I don't "channel" her as much as I used to. She'd have pointed out, perhaps more sharply than me that statements like

"That is a dangerous, bold faced feminist lie" are , respectfully, maybe not conducive to a friendly exchange of different views.

Marti x

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Lisa,

I think you misunderstood. I’m not saying that I believe it weakens us; quite the contrary (and hopefully I made clear at the end). I’m saying that I think society in general and our female SOs in particular view it that way. I thought I went to great pains to show that it is what the perception is that harms us in our efforts to make our spouses/gfs understand. I also tried to explain that the perception that has “soaked in” to society’s consciousness is that feminine = weaker = something less than masculinity — but is not in fact less than. It is merely different from, but complementary to, masculinity. Equal in value and worth.

Gosh, maybe I didn’t make these points as clearly as I thought...

Sorry!

Steph

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No contradiction at all. Not in the slightest.

Anything that makes a blanket indictment of and paints with a broad brush that the nature of masculinity is simply “toxic,” which is what I referenced, lacks meaningful critical thought and is merely an emotional screed. I don’t think anyone can deny that there is a certain branch of modern feminism that asserts that claim. It is foolishness. On its face. Absurd. Can be immediately disproven in a million ways with objective proof.

I’m not bemoaning crossdressers’ status in society (other than the derivative point that femininity is viewed as “lesser” than masculinity, which explains why people don’t blink about women “stepping up” — as they see it — in status when they throw on some flannel, a pair of jeans and a hard hat to go to work). They DO blink at men expressing femininity because they view it as a “step down.” That’s my impression/observation.

So my main point — which I think even feminists almost HaVE to agree with — is that the feminine is valued as a lesser thing to the masculine. Many Feminists have unwittingly actually adopted this view to some degree themselves. I don’t buy “patriarchy” language labels, but as I thought I made clear, it is men who are likely originally to blame for this devaluing.

Im not sure where you think I’m “supporting the patriarchy” unless you mean that by that, I believe men and women are different, and designed to fill some uniquely different roles. If that means “supporting the patriarchy,” then I guess I’m guilty. So be it. It remains true whether people wish to acknowledge it or not. That obviously, speaking as a cross dresser, doesn’t mean that people must at all times and all ways “stay in their lanes,” but I just think it is an interesting phenomenon that acceptance of women doing masculine things and presenting themselves in masculine ways (even from an early age) is accepted but the opposite is not true.

Remember the perfume commercial, “I can bring home the bacon, fry it up in a pan, and never let you forget you’re a man, because I’m a woman...”? So it seems society more readily accepts a woman transitioning between femininity and masculinity than it does a man. And my attempt to explain that phenomenon is that as a society we (WRONGLY) perceive that feminine < masculine.

I guess I’m not making my point well enough here!

Thanks!

Steph

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Thanks Steph,

I've had a chance to comment on your post, and you've had the chance to reply to that.

I'm happy to leave it there. I wouldn't want the mods to think we were falling out 😉

Marti x

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Marti!

Never! Lol. I would never dream of having a falling out!

I asked for an opinion. You gave it. I just wanted to be sure you actually understood the points I was making, because I think maybe I wasn’t clear. I appreciate the exchange! 😊

God bless,

Steph

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Lisa,

I can’t imagine a woman actually explicitly articulating the view that feminine < masculine, but that was my point — it has seeped into society’s sub conscience that it IS lesser. And that is manifested in so many ways that can’t be denied.

I mean, it looks and sounds like we’re disagreeing, but we actually aren’t! I think your lovely SO is the exception, and I also think she has the correct view! Can we get her to counsel our own wives? Lol.

Thanks,

Steph

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(@rbekka)
Noble Member     SF Bay Area, California, United States of America
Joined: 8 years ago

Sorry I only read the first paragraph or so.

Here is the answer (IMHO), nothing is diminished.
My wife once said "I want the man I married!" My answer was and is, "I am the man you married!"

I can and still do "manly" things! (I ruined my nails doing stuff a couple of weekends ago!!!!)

I have not changed mentally, masculine or otherwise. I do not have all the hair on my body I once did, but who's to say that is not masculine. Ask anyone what constitutes a "man", and you will get several different answers. Some gals like complete jerks, others a more sensitive man. It's society, primarily conservative society, that defines this. It's like any religion, I don't care how people choose to worship, but don't expect me to follow along.

I'm my own person, and "Becka" happens to be part of my person. Masculine, Feminine or otherwise.

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