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Mirror versus Photo

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Posts: 263
Lady
Topic starter
(@veroslondon)
Reputable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Joined: 1 year ago

 In a reply to a recent post of mine Melodee recollected  a story about her experience with a sleeveless dress -- "I thought it looked fab...until I saw a photo of me in it". This was something that I had also noticed -- you look at yourself in a full-length mirror and quite like what you see and then you see a photo of yourself and you are horrified at the image. Now why is it that this can happen? Assuming the photo was taken at roughly the same time as you looked in the mirror, why can our perceptions of an image in a mirror look so different from a photo? There can be some real reasons such as lighting etc but I don't think this is the whole story although for the life of me I don't have a reasonable explanation. But I now trust photos more than my mirror when it comes to judging how successful a look is whether it's clothes, or makeup or hair. 

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon?

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Lady
(@jeried)
Joined: 1 year ago

Estimable Member     SE Missouri, Missouri, United States of America
Posts: 54

@veroslondon I guess my simple response to this is the mirror is how you see yourself, the photo is how you think others will see you. 
The mirror and the photo can be exactly the same, it’s just how your brain interprets it.  You see how you actually are in the mirror. However, with the photo your brain kicks in and thinks “OMG this is how everyone else is going to see me.” You look in the mirror and think “damn I look good!”  Then you see the photo and think “i don’t know do I really loook that good?”   That’s how I see it. 
tootles

Jeri

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(@mocha)
Joined: 3 years ago

Honorable Member     Brindisi- BDS, Apulia / Puglia, Italy
Posts: 636

Hi Veronica, hello ladies 

Possible explanation 

The great dilemma: mirror vs photography

Is it better to use the mirror in our house or have someone take a photo of us?

It's not such an anomalous situation: they take a photo of you, you look at it and you struggle to recognize the subject.

How is it possible that that person is really you? This sense of alienation is very common and derives from the fact that we are used to seeing ourselves in the mirror every day and for different moments of the day: as soon as we wake up, while we are getting ready to go out and when we brush our teeth before going to sleep. Our reflection is always there, reminding us exactly how we are made and all the peculiarities of our face.

But is it really like that?

Why, then, do we perceive so many differences when we compare our reflection with a photo?

The doubt that creeps into us, at this point, is who is right between the mirror and the camera regarding our true appearance: today we will get to the bottom of this great dilemma, trying to understand what are the causes of the difference in image that comes back to us of ourselves and which one is as faithful as possible to reality.

Exposure effect: how the brain affects the perception of our appearance

To understand who is right between the mirror and the camera we must necessarily take a step back and talk about the so-called exposure effect, as called by researchers. In essence, when we look in the mirror our brain processes the image and returns it to us: by continuing to look at our reflection, we are therefore exposed to an image that is gradually embellished and made pleasant. We can say, in a very simplified way, that the brain "deceives" us by sending us a good memory of ourselves.

Added to this are the components of the set and our state of mind: when we are at home and look at ourselves in the mirror, for example in the phases preceding an outing, we are much more at ease as we are placed in an environment that we know ; this leads us, consequently, to improve the look we direct at ourselves and to slightly filter our real appearance. The mirror, once again, absorbs our trials and the best expressions we can make and consequently gives us back a "modified" image.

The mirror vs photography: a comparison on the perception of our appearance

Another important difference between the mirror and the camera is the overall vision they offer us: generally when we look in the mirror we usually focus on the individual details which then make up our look, while in photography there is an external gaze which immediately includes the whole. Elements such as posture are no longer adjusted and filtered by the mirror and this is how a surprise photograph reveals to us all those small defects that we tend not to perceive in our reflection at home. Another element to take into consideration is the extemporaneous nature of the photo - when, obviously, we are not talking about a shooting - which captures a very specific moment that is never repeated: after the shot we cannot intervene personally on our hair, on the look or on what disturbs us. Our appearance is all there, not filtered by our brain but finally put in black and white.

However, one should not think that this is necessarily a penalty: many elements come into play in the final result, such as the brightness of the environment and the quality of the object with which the photograph is taken. The result of a shot taken while you are busy dancing is not the same as a photo that surprises you in broad daylight while you are having an aperitif and so on.

The perception of appearance: the final verdict between the mirror and the camera

The time has come to take stock: is the mirror in our house or the camera more realistic?

The correct answer, you will have guessed by now, is the second. A good photo, preferably spontaneous, can provide more information on your true appearance than a prolonged independent study in the mirror. As we suggested, it is not certain that the result is necessarily better or worse, nor that the difference is as abysmal as some might think: what we have limited ourselves to underlining here is that the camera is a more reliable ally for discovering how we appear outside the home. But no one forbids us to trust our gaze.😉

XOXO from Italy

Greta🏳️‍⚧️❤️

 

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Lady
(@celestecd)
Joined: 4 years ago

Reputable Member     Colorado, United States of America
Posts: 210

@veroslondon

Oh yes!  For me, I'll strike a pose in the mirror and look/feel good and then be unable to replicate it on film - or even in the mirror again.  I have also had the opposite happen. Of course lighting has an effect too - as mentioned. Then there have been several instances where I have just had to accept that my new outfit just didn't work for me.  Oh I'll fight that notion because I had such high hopes and continue to try it for a while but there are times when I just need to move on to a new outfit - because there is always a new outfit to try (a weakness of mine)

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Baroness
(@trish1980)
Joined: 3 years ago

Prominent Member     Kamloops, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 769
  • @veroslondon Hi Veronica,
  • From some of the pics I’ve taken, good and bad, it usually boils down to the lighting which would not be the same if the photo is taken in a mirror vs directly at yourself. The lighting for each will be different. The best light for photos is indirect. Good luck.

        Trish ❤️

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Baroness
(@river)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     New Hampshire, United States of America
Posts: 827

@veroslondon All the time !! but also as you mentioned I find lighting and flash to be part of the culprit.  I can take a good photo with perfect light and angle. but sometimes the flash OMG brings out all the flaws wrinkles you name it..  I.need a facelift lol.. Cheers RC

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Ambassador
(@melanieelizabeth)
Joined: 4 years ago

Honorable Member     New Jersey, United States of America
Posts: 500

@veroslondon I’ve felt this way many times Veronica, I’ve been dressed and felt great about myself, snapped a bunch of pics and upon reviewing the images I’ve been heartbroken by what I saw. 
   The worst example of this was after keystone last year, I felt I looked decent but I wasn’t happy with the photos. So much so that I tried to duplicate the outfits and take more pictures at home in an effort to wash away the self doubt. I was relatively successful in this effort proving to myself that I wasn’t as unattractive as the photos I had taken. After giving this some thought I have come to this conclusion as others have said photos are a millisecond in time and the mirror is a far better barometer of how we really look. I’ve taken many pictures of myself and only 1 in 10 generally do I really feel satisfied about it’s a similar phenomenon of pics of myself in drab although in drab I’m far less concerned about it. 
     Now video is a whole different thing….maybe we can talk about that in your next post. Ty for this thought provoking topic Veronica

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(@veroslondon)
Joined: 1 year ago

Reputable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 263

@melanieelizabeth Hi Melanie Elizabeth

A couple of comments. Firstly (although I think in the US you like say first so it's more like an exclamation), having looked at your photos here I'm a bit surprised that you had problems with your keystone photos because you look gorgeous in all of your CDH pics. Secondly/second, a couple of others have replied that they think videos are the best guide to how you present to others. Although, I've tried videos one or two times, I don't have enough experience at the moment to voice an opinion  but now you have mentioned it I think it might be my next CD project.

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Posts: 485
(@justnikki)
Prominent Member     Seattle, Washington, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

As someone who can't stand having their picture taken in any event, I know all too well what you mean. For me, though, the takeaway is different. If I look good in the mirror, I'm more likely to look that way to others, because life is dynamic; you're moving in subtle and not so subtle ways, an observer is also in motion and subject to dynamic changes of state and lighting. A photo is a single, frozen instant. I think it's incredibly difficult to get a representative photo because of how unforgiving a single instant can be. Our facial expressions are in flux, our body posture is changing, and light changes our appearance as we move... it's no wonder photographers have to take so many images of a subject to get the "right" one. The mirror doesn't lie; that's really what we look like from moment to moment, it's just that our impressions are softened by the dynamics of motion and lighting. No matter how good you look, it's remarkably easy to take a lousy picture, which makes it so fun when you get a good one.

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1 Reply
Managing Ambassador
(@ellyd22)
Joined: 2 years ago

Majestic Member     Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posts: 5171

@justnikki My experience is the same as yours, Nikki.

I can look fine in the mirror.

I don't usually, but I CAN.

On those rare occasions, I'll admire my reflection and say to myself ... 'Good job, Ellie! You're getting better at this! You know what? You should take a selfie.'

When I actually do that, 99 times out of a hundred I look at the photo and think ... euuurrrggghhhh.

Ellie x

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Posts: 1109
Duchess Annual
(@firefly)
Noble Member     Panama, Panama, Panama
Joined: 7 years ago

Hi Veronica.

I do. It is a phenomenon that has been investigated and studied. They say that it obeys an automatic and involuntary process of perception  added to psychological factors. Maybe it has an explanation from Optics. 

Mirrors reflect virtual images. There are no rays of light coming from such images. The light we perceive is that which is reflected from such an opaque body with a smooth surface that we call a mirror. 

The image in the reflection, which we unconsciously adjust to improve, is more similar to our positive perception of ourselves than to reality. We see the image we want to see. For example, I feel prettier than I really am. Sometimes I feel photogenic. Other times, it's just that, despite my insecurity, I have a huge ego. 

Photos show us more who we are. Although I have found that makeup helps, especially if it has been done by a professional. And the clothes, of course.

Gisela 

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Guest
(@Anonymous 93795)
Joined: 1 year ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 189

@firefly I must agree. I look in the mirror and think I look fabulous. Snap a few photos and reality slaps me in the face. How can this be?….i thought I looked so beautiful.

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Posts: 1109
Duchess Annual
(@firefly)
Noble Member     Panama, Panama, Panama
Joined: 7 years ago

Right, Chanel. But I have learned that the most important thing is that you feel beautiful. The appearance changes depending on who perceives it.

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Guest
(@Anonymous 93795)
Joined: 1 year ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 189

@firefly This is such a thought provoking piece…I have wondered about it for a long time. I just cannot believe that I almost seem to “fool”myself. It is fascinating to me to hear that you and others may experience the same thing.

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Posts: 1037
Managing Ambassador
(@melodeescarlet)
Famed Member     DC/Baltimore, Maryland, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

Hiya Veronica! That story is mostly true in this context. When I first tried that dress on I was in guy mode - no makeup/hair, and in the mirror I felt it looked good and the GF agreed. Sidenote: although this is one reason I doll up completely to try things on now. Additionally, it wasn't a very good photo in general (and we all know bad photos are a thing), and lastly, in the photo I was standing next to a petite girl which visually exacerbated everything about my size.

Generally speaking I find that while in girl mode, photos do more or less accurately reflect what the mirror shows me. That said, I do find this phenomena 100% accurate in guy mode! I cannot take a single photo of me in guy mode that looks anything like what I see in the mirror and that rankles something fierce! lol

In the end, I think my conclusion is the opposite of yours though - I trust the mirror more than a camera. My eyes are better than a camera lens. But...could be backwards, I suppose. Some people have said I look good in that photo. I just thank them and donate to their upgraded vision prescription. lol

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Posts: 1741
Duchess
(@alison-anderson)
Noble Member     Middlesex county, New Jersey, United States of America
Joined: 6 years ago

This is common, not just among us but among everyone. You can do a Google search for this question and come up with a lot of hits.

Here are a few points they make. When you look in the mirror, you are seeing the reverse of you. It is a continuous moving stream. Your brain views it in 3D. Angles and (to a lesser extent) lighting change as you move. Distance to the mirror changes your view.

The photo is a fixed momemt in time. It is not reversed, so asymmetries in you look different. The photo depends on the angle of the camera, and your facial expression at the moment the photo is snapped. The camera is rarely at eye level so it creates its own distortion (looking up or looking down). Maybe you were jutting out your chest, or letting your stomach hang out a bit too much. The photo is a 2D representation. It's harder to read non-verbal facial expressions from a moment in time than from viewing someone continuously. (Ooh, look, the baby's smiling. No, they're just passing gas.)

A good photographer knows about some of these things and work to minimize some of their effects. Hold your chin out. Tilt your head. Turn a little this way. Let me adjust the lighting, or the apature setting (which changes the depth of field). These are a few things they learn to take a better photo.

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(@veroslondon)
Joined: 1 year ago

Reputable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 263

@alison-anderson Hi Alison. Wouldn't the argument about the photographer's tricks of the trade argue that we would tend to look better in photos than in the mirror rather then vice versa which is my experience. For example, I know my legs are proportionally a bit short relative to my body so I take photos with a bluetooth shutter release from a height below my waist. Also I never take selfies and certainly not from head or above height. However, when I'm looking at myself in a mirror I never think "blimey those legs look really short!". They just look perfectly normal to me.

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Lady
(@leainvancouver)
Joined: 1 year ago

Prominent Member     Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 379

@alison-anderson I couldn’t agree more Alison. Many of us are not perceptive photographers. Photographs capture a split second image of us that we can then scrutinize and judge.  When I examine photographs I take of myself I use a similar technique I use when examining my make up or outfits. I notice small things like lighting, camera angle, my expression, what are my eyes are doing, shadows, background, etc and try to correct them next time.

If you are taking pictures to keep a record of your progress, also note the progress of your ability to take good best pictures of yourself because the two go hand in hand. Haven’t you ever seen a lousy picture of a beautiful person? Even the prettiest girl can take bad pictures  

Before taking pictures, optimize your photo environment as much as you optimize yourself. If your camera allows live or a burst of shots it will take ten shots of you every time you press the shutter. In the ten you often find 1 that is much better than the rest. Delete the ones where you are about to blink or sneeze. 

Something of interest is that our cameras can take mirror images or “true” photos. One is the reverse of the other. Photo image software can flip images between both modes. My iPad was taking mirror images of me that are the reverse of photos. You can tell because writing looks backwards in the images. Something about the images bothered me until I flipped them, then voila, they felt better to me and I was more comfortable with my pictures. You will find this feature on your phone or camera so you can adjust the setting if you prefer one over the other. 

I found I didn’t like seeing photos of myself reversed, that is mirror images because my face looks “backwards”. Psychologically this can be unsettling. When I flipped the images on my iPad, I found I liked my photos more. Strange but true!

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Posts: 32
Lady
(@gaussianblur)
Trusted Member     Colorado, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

Definitely a few factors at play. As mentioned, lighting, angle, self consciousness in pose, unfortunate timing, being a mirror image of what we normally see so everything just looks a little wrong all change the way we "look". And there are some other technical issues too.

I am guessing most of us are using our phones for pics. From what I understand, they use a compression algorithm to format the image file limiting it's dynamic range. This can make things a little flat in general but there is also manipulations done to things like color, contrast, and white balance that greatly affect the image.

Another issue is focal length. We see in a sort of 50mm focal length perspective (like what a 50mm lens sees on a full frame camera, or an old 35mm film camera). A fairly standard focal length for portraits is 85mm. Now, your camera on your phone is going to probably be 24mm to 35mm. So what does that mean? Think about what a really wide lens like a fish eye lens does to images, how it distorts it...that is what is kind of happening with your phone camera, just not as dramatic. 

Also, at least for me, there is a psychological thing at play. I am way too self conscious and critical of myself and I find I fall into that trap of letting my appearance sort of define my worth (I wish I could pass, I wish I was more femme, and so on). I know what I want to look like, and any deviation from that "stands out" in pics. (did you ever take a pic of yourself that you liked, then liked it less and less the more you looked at it, or is that just me?) In the end, really all I am doing is looking for those imperfections and focusing on them. 

 

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Posts: 3397
Hostess
(@ab123)
Illustrious Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Joined: 5 years ago

I have deleted more pictures than mirrors.... 

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Duchess
(@alison-anderson)
Joined: 6 years ago

Noble Member     Middlesex county, New Jersey, United States of America
Posts: 1741

Posted by: @ab123

I have deleted more pictures than mirrors.... 

Well, Angela, it certainly is cheaper ...  😀

 

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Lady
(@leainvancouver)
Joined: 1 year ago

Prominent Member     Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
Posts: 379

@ab123 I’ve broken more mirrors than cameras! 

Laugh Cry

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Posts: 305
Duchess
(@2bmadeline)
Reputable Member     Walla Walla, Washington, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

Mirror gives you a perceived three dimensional image. Photos are restricted to two dimensions.

Trust the mirror.

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Posts: 1777
Baroness Annual
(@d44)
Famed Member     New York, United States of America
Joined: 5 years ago

I believe the mirror is the truer image. I always look better there than in a photo.

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Posts: 1109
Duchess Annual
(@firefly)
Noble Member     Panama, Panama, Panama
Joined: 7 years ago

In fact, mirrors and photos are merely references because my eyes have never seen my real face in front of them and they never will. 

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(@veroslondon)
Joined: 1 year ago

Reputable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 263

@firefly Gisella, good point. I suppose you are suggesting that both the image in the mirror and the photo may be equally not real and so we should ignore both. That sounds a bit too metaphysical for me but very interesting nonetheless.

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Duchess Annual
(@firefly)
Joined: 7 years ago

Noble Member     Panama, Panama, Panama
Posts: 1109

@veroslondon Veronica. Something like that, but not as much as ignoring both. It's more to say that we should trust how we feel more than how we look or are seen.

I said it as if it were so easy to put into practice. I really have enjoyed this forum. 

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(@veroslondon)
Joined: 1 year ago

Reputable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 263

@firefly Hi Gisella

I've always been fascinated by other CD's comments about not worrying about how you look as long as for you it feels right or put another way, feeling positive about your appearance is the only thing that counts. So just go out there and enjoy yourself however you look. In a way, this is suggesting that instead of putting all that work into achieving a perfect look, just change the way you think and you will be much happier. This is of course the whole basis for therapy, for which there is only very limited evidence for its efficacy -- I've tried it and gave up when I realised that my therapist didn't want to discuss how I would know if it was working. My apologies if you are in some way connected to the therapy community and my experience may be an aberration.

But the other problem I have with this approach is, that for me at least, being a CD is about creating the illusion to others that you look like a woman and if I am being completely honest that I look like an attractive younger version of myself. Personally, I need some unbiased feedback on whether or not I'm getting even remotely close to this goal and I feel photos are what give me the answer to that age old question "does my bum look big in this?" or in our case does it look too small!

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Posts: 1497
Ambassador
(@jacquelinelarkspur)
Famed Member     Gateshead, Tyne and Wear, United Kingdom
Joined: 1 year ago

What an interesting topic! It made me realise that the new profile pic I added yesterday is a mirror image. I shall change it forthwith!

I suppose it's a bit like the voice we hear when we speak is never the same as when we hear it played back on a recording. Weirdly, I've never been keen on the sound of my own male voice, but I do like my female pitch voice.

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2 Replies
(@veroslondon)
Joined: 1 year ago

Reputable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 263

@jacquelinelarkspur You are so lucky (or more likely you just worked hard at it) to have a female pitch voice. I like to think I can pass reasonably well until I open my mouth to speak and then the illusion is completely shattered.

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Guest
(@Anonymous 93795)
Joined: 1 year ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 189

@veroslondon My femme voice isn’t perfect either, but it’s always worth practicing when alone and trying to raise it an octave or two when shopping en femme. I can’t fool anyone with it, but it’s a definite improvement.

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Posts: 114
Duchess Annual
(@patches)
Estimable Member     Maryland, United States of America
Joined: 1 year ago

I think perception of our image whether it's from a mirror or a photo is clouded by our self image.  When we see something in the mirror or a photo that is different from how we feel about ourselves, sometimes more positive sometimes more negative, it can cause a touch of cognitive dissonance.

Personally, I can look at a picture of myself one day and think "hey, i'm kinda cute" then I'll look at the same picture the next day and think "wtf, I need to delete this before anyone see's it" 

One thing I do know from observing others as well as feedback from other about me is that a genuine smile turns a 3 into an 8 (on the proverbial 1-10 scale).  So girls, if you feel pretty and it makes you happy, Smile! Smile  

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Posts: 1097
Lady
(@margprodue)
Noble Member     Madison, Wisconsin, United States of America
Joined: 3 years ago

Hi Veronica,  Sorry to be late to the discussion. My days are very busy so I sometimes have trouble allowing the time to do a proper pic.  My best pics have always been spontaneous ones that someone else took.  When I want to do a self-pic, I use this process.  All of my pics are just from my iPhone (usually my old 5) set on a tripod.  Then I just turn on the video and let it record while I get into the picture and try poses in front of a mirror.  A  lot of time I will talk to myself or make jokes or dance with imaginary friends just to try to get my mouth into a perfect smile and my eyes to be bright and my body to look natural.  Then after 5 minutes, I turn the video off and pass it onto my Mac laptop.  Next, I roll the video and then screen print parts that show an image that I really like.  After you do this for a while you begin to find the timing mark that you think seems to be a good area and then you concentrate your selection there.  Then I select the best one of the screen printed shots and use it.  I only crop my shots and don’t enhance or Photoshop them since I think that defeats the learning purpose.  If you use this video method, you will get a slight softening of the image which may be an advantage to your final look.  Also, when someone takes my pic they are waiting for the moment that they see as most flattering which is just the same thing that I’m trying to do in the screen print or when looking in the mirror.  It seems that my look can change a lot in just a few frames (from awful to Ooooh, that’s nice) so I’ve learned not to smash the mirror and cut up my clothes and know that it takes me about 20 tries before I find a good look.  (BTY, it’s not unusual for cameras to add 10 pounds to a persons look and find every flaw.)   I hope this helps.  Marg

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2 Replies
(@veroslondon)
Joined: 1 year ago

Reputable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 263

@margprodue Hi Marg

That's a really interesting suggestion which I must try. I'm afraid that I'm a member of the Android tribe rather than an Applephile but I'm sure the process will work equally well with Android phones.

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Lady
(@margprodue)
Joined: 3 years ago

Noble Member     Madison, Wisconsin, United States of America
Posts: 1097

@veroslondon Hi Veronica,

Any video will work as long as you have a way to stop it and examine it for the part that really shows you best.  I do also use this method to find the cringe moments in my look and try to remember not to repeat them in public.  My brain thinks that I act much different than I really look. lol  Good Luck,  Marg

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Posts: 30
(@gynaeceum)
Trusted Member     Omaha, Nebraska, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

Just a little something to think about in response to the original question posed regarding the difference between the mirror image and the photographic image. It's a matter of optics. Best way (and it's fun, too) to comprehend the distinction is to conduct a little test. Stand at the focal distance you normally do when before the bathroom mirror in the morning. Put you thumb on the bottom of your chin in the reflect image of your face. Next put your middle finger on the top of the reflected image of your head. What will be discovered is that the head you've been looking at all these years (and the new head with the beautiful woman's face you now have begun to enjoy) is only half the size of your actual head. Conclusion? All these years you've been looking at a miniature of your actual self. It's an illusion corrected by your brain. A camera lens doesn't work that way. So, when considering the difference between the mirror image and the camera image of yourself, remember that the self in the mirror is a distortion while the self in the photograph is the actuality.

Livi

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1 Reply
(@veroslondon)
Joined: 1 year ago

Reputable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 263

@gynaeceum Hi Livia

Thanks for the brief tutorial on optics and the scientific explanation for my probably prejudiced view. For me the issue is how do I look to others when I'm out and about. Is it the image I see in the mirror or how I appear in photos? Personally I think photos are a better reflection (no pun intended) of how I appear to strangers so if in a photo an outfit makes me look like a sack of spuds, I quickly change into something else. If you have a friendly partner then you can seek their advice but for me the camera doesn't lie.

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