Notifications
Clear all

Welcome to Crossdresser Heaven, a safe and welcoming place for everyone in the crossdresser community.

Join Crossdresser Heaven today to participate in the forums.

Out and about all dolled up

143 Posts
37 Users
315 Reactions
483 Views
Posts: 1017
Duchess
Topic starter
(@gracepal)
Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Joined: 5 months ago

Many of you go outside your house crossdressed in order to interact with the real world. Personally, I do not. Here’s a question for you: Do you think you’re perceived by the general public who you engage with as - just a man in a dress? A man really trying hard to be female and wanting to be treated as such? Are there some who perceive you as an actual woman and don’t realize you’re really a male? Or - none of those and something else entirely?

These are the things some of us “indoor cats” wonder about 🥰

GP

Reply
142 Replies
57 Replies
Duchess
(@mkat3874)
Joined: 4 months ago

Reputable Member     Northeast GA , Georgia, United States of America
Posts: 192

@gracepal 

My intent when going out is to blend in well enough to hopefully be perceived & treated as a woman. I try to act as ladylike as I can, try not stand out, or actively engage strangers. I don't intentionally raise my voice but I do soften it.  So far, I've not been "sir'ed" or been treated in a way that causes me to think otherwise.  My wife and daughters have been out with me and they tell me I'm hitting the mark. However, I wonder if they are just being nice or those I interact with are also just being nice?  Without being in their mind I'll just have to take their word for it.  

On a funnier note, last summer I went with my group of CD friends to a restaurant for lunch that we had gone to before when it was nearly empty.  This time there hundreds of college students there watching a game on a big screen directly over the bar.  In walked 7 of us in our best attire all of whom were 6 ft and taller and most wearing heels. We had to order at the bar which meant we were standing between the students and the game on the TV.  I'm certain we weren't fooling anyone.  However, I was shocked that no one seemed to notice us. No stares, pointing fingers, or obvious laughter that I could tell. We ordered, ate, and left.  Completely uneventful! 

 

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@mkat3874 That IS funny Michelle. Shows how attitudes have changed for the better. Especially among the younger crowd. Most girls would love it I’m sure. Me though, I’d probably be thinking, hey, a good looking group of us are all dolled up over here…can’t we get a little recognition? Doesn’t anyone want a selfie with some cool chicks???🤣

GP

Reply
Ambassador
(@beach-girl)
Joined: 7 years ago

Honorable Member     United States of America
Posts: 521

@mkat3874 That corresponds very closely with my experience, too. I've never been in public with any of my daughters, but often with my wife. As concerned as she is with people discovering my "hobby", I have to believe that she wouldn't keep joining me if she felt I didn't present well as a woman. When she's not with me, I often catch the attention of men. There have been times that I've gone to a bar & my purse could have been empty for not having to buy a drink all night. I'm sure that I'm read, occasionally, but mostly, I think I'm seen as just another woman. I've never been called "Sir". Never had a negative experience in all the times I've gone public.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@beach-girl Well that was going to be my next query Dawn. For those that do go out, how often do men flirt with you? And surely they must know you’re a crosser….?

Reply
Ambassador
(@beach-girl)
Joined: 7 years ago

Honorable Member     United States of America
Posts: 521

@gracepal I would have to say that, most of the time that I go to a bar or club, some guy is "hitting" on me, buying me a drink or just flirting. Do they know that I'm a "crosser"? Some do. Maybe some don't. Or, not to sound like I'm full of myself, but perhaps they find me so attractive, as a woman, that they can't help themselves. This is part of the lure, for me, of wanting to dress. I don't get anywhere near the attention or positive reaction, as him, compared to what I get as me.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@beach-girl I get that Dawn. I’ve always thought that hitting on a crosser was the perfect excuse for curious guys to try a little something extra. Good cover if you will. Didn’t Eddie Murphy get caught with one? Hugh Grant?

”But officer, I thought that was a girl…!!!” RIGHT.

Reply
Duchess
(@jennconn)
Joined: 2 years ago

Noble Member     Florida, United States of America
Posts: 758

@gracepal interesting question Grace.  I have been out, but not a lot, so I’ll just stick to my experiences.  I was out with a group of CDs last year at a very busy mall.  Some of us dressed to blend in including me.  There was one incident where a lady at a kiosk stopped one of us to talk about her hair.  When she said that it was a wig and that she was a guy, the lady was so excited.  Then the rest of us gathered around and she told us how cool she thought we were and then insisted on snapping a photo with all of the group.

 

Later that day, we were in a bar at the hotel, just having a few drinks and talking.  Several groups of flight crews were staying there and one flight attendant came up to us to tell us how lovely we all looked and was so happy that we were doing what we wanted to do. Later we got her to take a photo of the entire group together

During the entire day, no one paid any attention to me and I was able to just walk through the mall unnoticed.  If we were noticed, no one said anything, and this was an extremely crowded mall.  I wasn’t sure I could do that, but by the end of the day, I really didn’t worry about anything any more, because no one else did either.  

I suspect that even when we are read that people are kind enough to ignore us no matter what they are thinking.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@jennconn Well JC, I for one am happy to hear stories such as this. Where people adopt a live and let live attitude towards the CD set. We’re about as harmless as it gets IMHO….🥰

GP

Reply
Duchess
(@jennconn)
Joined: 2 years ago

Noble Member     Florida, United States of America
Posts: 758

@gracepal I’ve seen it changing Grace, I’m certain that no one really cares any more, at least to your face.

Reply
Ambassador
(@beach-girl)
Joined: 7 years ago

Honorable Member     United States of America
Posts: 521

@jennconn I remember, JC. That was fun!

 

Reply
Baroness
(@annaredhead)
Joined: 11 months ago

Famed Member     Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 1813

@gracepal I rarely go out and keep it well away from home when I do. I can be in good makeup, nicely turned out but I am still over 6 foot tall which is quite a give away.

My best moment was being called "miss" whilst out on my travels. I've had a few looks and definitely been checked out which I'll take as a compliment.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@annaredhead I s’pose if you’re getting checked out and flirted with then…mission accomplished for some🥰

 

Reply
Baroness
(@annaredhead)
Joined: 11 months ago

Famed Member     Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 1813

@gracepal It's better than getting an abusive comment, thankfully something I've not experienced. Very few people have actually met Anna and I keep that list small.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@annaredhead I’m all about small lists🥰

Reply
(@valentina16)
Joined: 4 weeks ago

Noble Member     Worcester, Worcestershire, United Kingdom
Posts: 771

@gracepal Hi Grace. Thanks for the post.

Not sure I can answer this in any depth as I am an ‘indoor cat’ who occasionally wears slightly female outer clothing and maybe puts in the smallest forms (if wearing a loose coat) and feels quite liberated in the process. I have only done such locally where old friends from the rugby club might be ‘surprised’. Not ready for that. I might venture out further afield and see, but for now, just knowing and feeling the underclothing is more than enough.

if you haven’t tried this, I thoroughly recommend it. 💚

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@valentina16 Oh I’ve tried it many times VV. It’s astounding to me how you can feel every movement of a bra with even the smallest of forms when you’re “underdressing” as they call it here. I gave a speech in what looked like a men’s suit and there wasn’t one iota of male anything on myself when I presented it.

GP

Reply
(@valentina16)
Joined: 4 weeks ago

Noble Member     Worcester, Worcestershire, United Kingdom
Posts: 771

@gracepal And actually, no forms can provide satisfaction, I’ve found ☺️

💚

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@valentina16 My wife says my boobs are too high. I tell her “I’m perky!”

Reply
Ambassador
(@beach-girl)
Joined: 7 years ago

Honorable Member     United States of America
Posts: 521

@gracepal Mine says mine are too high-- and too big. Jealous? Wink

Reply
Ambassador
(@beach-girl)
Joined: 7 years ago

Honorable Member     United States of America
Posts: 521

@valentina16 Do you know what I'd give to have my own? I'd give my left nut. Uhh... Well, you know. Laugh Sideways

Reply
(@valentina16)
Joined: 4 weeks ago

Noble Member     Worcester, Worcestershire, United Kingdom
Posts: 771

@beach-girl maybe your right nut!? lol. 💚

Reply
Duchess
(@augustvaliant)
Joined: 6 years ago

Noble Member     Long Island, New York, United States of America
Posts: 1521

@gracepal I went to your photos to see if you had one from the speech. No "suit" to be seen but I am glad I got to see your pretty pictures.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@augustvaliant There probably are pictures of that speech somewhere now that I think of it….but they just look like me in drab. It’s easy to dress like a girl and still look like a boy.😊

Reply
Duchess
(@augustvaliant)
Joined: 6 years ago

Noble Member     Long Island, New York, United States of America
Posts: 1521

@gracepal ok.... yeah.... I suppose posting a drab looking picture wouldn't make much sense here. I didn't think it through. Curiosity got the best of me.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@augustvaliant Hey, thanks for the compliments though…did you go to my Private Photos? It’s usually a pretty slow traffic area in that neck of the CDH woods😊

Reply
Duchess
(@augustvaliant)
Joined: 6 years ago

Noble Member     Long Island, New York, United States of America
Posts: 1521

Yes I did. I left a message asking why you didn't like that one dress. So now 2 more questions.... 1. what size is it 2. Can you hang on to it just in case I pass through SC one day ?  😉

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@augustvaliant Wow, can’t find it anywhere. But that’s not unusual- I guess we’re not notified of comments on PP’s. At least I never see them unless I go back into them which I rarely do. If it’s the pink and white flowery number that looks like a bedsheet….well that’s why🤣. It’s a large I think- which was too big. I would have kept it for ya had I known girl😊. Like most of my things - it had about a two-week vacay in my closet before it was time to go home to the GW🤪

Reply
Duchess
(@loneleycd)
Joined: 5 years ago

Famed Member     Roland, Iowa, United States of America
Posts: 2152

@gracepal I think the perception people have of me are all over the place. Last spring when I was watching my 5 year old granddaughter took her to the local public library where one mother came up and asked me if I were her grandmother. After a stunned moment I replied that she was my granddaughter. 

Another more recent is this fall I went to the funeral for my granddaughter's Ex boyfriend's grandmother. One young lady there already knew me both ways, but someone else at the table I was at at the lunch after the service after about 20 minutes asked me if I were transgender. She said it in such a nice curious way that I was happy to tell her all.

I just want to add that this is small town Iowa, population 1300 and very conservative. 

Cassie 

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@loneleycd I really believe it’s mostly just a curiosity thing. It certainly is for me. Trying to understand people’s motivations for why they do what they do. I don’t think it’s a liberal or conservative thing for most people. 

GP

Reply
Lady
(@gorgeousgwen)
Joined: 2 months ago

Estimable Member     Northamptonshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 56

@gracepal I assume that because I don't experience people staring at me or making comments that I am seen as a woman, but it may be that people are more tolerant these days, in the UK at least. I do avoid situations where people might try and engage in conversation with me, so going into a store or cafe is a goal to work towards.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@gorgeousgwen I do think tolerance is rising Gwen. If for the very least, people know that if there are any “scenes” with any of us - people will be filming it on their phones. A bully could go viral in a way they would really not want to.

GP

Reply
Lady
(@raven188)
Joined: 6 years ago

Prominent Member     Idaho, United States of America
Posts: 507

@gracepal I'm not sure what my intent is when going out. I think just the idea of walking around in public dressed up is fun. I don't pass very well, but I think I pass a bit better than "a man in a dress" (if that distinction makes any sense, lol). My guess is that most people perceive me as trans and seem to treat me like a woman, or in ways that seem to be pretty gender neutral. I get double takes and smiles, and occasionally a scowl, but most people seem to kind of ignore me.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@raven188 I think the majority consensus here is that most people don’t bother us when we are out in the wild for the most part. For me, the idea of going out dressed up has to have a guaranteed upside to it before I even step out the door. For an event like Keystone I can see it. Meeting a fellow sister for coffee…possibly. Going out to pick up groceries as Grace? There’s no value proposition in doing that. There is a big downside in running into someone I don’t want to see in “lady mode” for sure.

GP

Reply
Ambassador
(@beach-girl)
Joined: 7 years ago

Honorable Member     United States of America
Posts: 521

@raven188 If any one "reads" me, I just tell them I'm transitioning. They seem to accept that better than if I were to tell them I'm a crossdresser.

Reply
Lady
(@harriette)
Joined: 2 years ago

Illustrious Member     Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4010

@gracepal Stating up front, I do not present myself as a female. My height, MPB, and facial hair all precludes me from convincing anyone of me being female.

So what does that leave me? Quite a bit, actually. I dress 100% of my time in all women's clothing, top to bottom, both at home and abroad, and I get away with more than I probably should.

A lot of CDs dress this way. It is convenient, takes less effort than getting all done up en femme, and doing so allows me to blend in while in public view better. It also allows me to make more use of all of these clothes that I have.

More up time, practical, better use of resources. If you want to step out through your own front door while dressed, this is a key way to do that, and you can reserve any en femme time for when you are in private. The best of both worlds. 

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@harriette Sounds like you’re “doin it your way” Harriette😊

Reply
Lady
(@harriette)
Joined: 2 years ago

Illustrious Member     Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4010

@gracepal I thought that we all crossdress in our own way.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@harriette Lotsa different colors in the Crossdressers Crayon Box.

Reply
(@valentina16)
Joined: 4 weeks ago

Noble Member     Worcester, Worcestershire, United Kingdom
Posts: 771

@harriette MPB please?

Reply
Lady
(@harriette)
Joined: 2 years ago

Illustrious Member     Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4010

@valentina16 Male Pattern Baldness

Reply
(@valentina16)
Joined: 4 weeks ago

Noble Member     Worcester, Worcestershire, United Kingdom
Posts: 771
Ambassador
(@gafran)
Joined: 9 months ago

Noble Member     Warner Robins, Georgia, United States of America
Posts: 1126

@gracepal 

 For the most part it's been positive. I've had the rare experience of that cold stare that seems like I'm being x-rayed.  But I just keep on moving. 

 No point in explaining to people who don't or won't get it. Its hard enough to explain it to ourselves!

Besides I see out of my self. My dress and where I'm going. So that's my focus. 

I'm like the person that would give you the shirt off their back. But don't try to take it from them!

 Fran 🥰 

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@gafran I can relate to that Fran😊 But don’t ask for my blouse cuz I’m not parting with it!

Reply
Ambassador
(@gafran)
Joined: 9 months ago

Noble Member     Warner Robins, Georgia, United States of America
Posts: 1126

@gracepal 

That's how we roll! 🥰

Reply
Lady
(@cherylt)
Joined: 6 months ago

Prominent Member     Honesdale, Pennsylvania, United States of America
Posts: 478

@gracepal Since I don't engage the Muggles to discuss their view of me I can't really say how I am received. 

I feel too much emphasis is placed on "passing" and few of us can truly achieve that. My goal is to present myself as a woman as best I can in my overall appearance and carriage. I simply desire to be accepted as a woman or at least be treated respectfully and in the same manner I treat others. 

What they say under their breath, at home to their spouse or to coworkers is something I'm not aware of and therefore don't concern myself with. I simply do my best to present myself and our community in a way that people will respect.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@cherylt If you’re out and about in public, aren’t you usually going to encounter a few “muggles”?

Reply
Lady
(@cherylt)
Joined: 6 months ago

Prominent Member     Honesdale, Pennsylvania, United States of America
Posts: 478

@gracepal Encounter perhaps, but engage as I said, no. I don't make it my business to survey those around me.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@cherylt I’ve encountered and engaged with 2 CD’s in the past 6 months. One was a nurse at my former doctors office - (and yes, she’s the reason he’s my former doctor.) The other was a waitress in a restaurant who did a good job and got a big tip. As for blending, neither one was trying very hard to.

Reply
Lady
(@cherylt)
Joined: 6 months ago

Prominent Member     Honesdale, Pennsylvania, United States of America
Posts: 478

@gracepal Why was she the reason he's your former Dr?

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@cherylt Because “she” was a piss-poor representative of the medical profession. And if that doctor is going to have the poor judgement to have him/her working there in the first place, then I already have no faith in anything he’s going to tell me about my health. There’s a time and a place for crossdressing. The doctor’s office isn’t one. (I’m still irritated with myself that I didn’t walk out as soon as he opened the door and called my name.)

GP

 

Reply
Lady
(@kendyllleigh)
Joined: 1 year ago

Active Member     SLC Metro, Utah, United States of America
Posts: 5

@gracepal I'm a bit of an unusual duck. I've been wearing skirts and heels daily for over a year, but I don't have a top half to match. My youngest refers to me as a gender centaur; clearly male up top with a feminine lower half. I go out this way in SLC every day and have only had one or two odd looks that I am able to notice in that entire time. People here are weirdly conservative but keep to themselves. I live in Utah County too, so down where thee is less diversity as well.

To answer your question, I am likely a man in a dress at this point, but that will change over time as I started HRT this month.

Reply
(@lauren114)
Joined: 2 years ago

Noble Member     Delaware, United States of America
Posts: 1201

@gracepal I can't say how I am perceived by people I don't know or interact with.  My philosophy is to dress to blend in with the other women when I am out.   In general, my experience is that I don't get a second look.   People are so into their own thing that they don't take notice of others.   Think about it...do you remember anyone you saw the last time you were out that wasn't an acquaintance?

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@lauren114 I remember vividly the two crossdressers I’ve seen in the past 6 months.

Reply
(@geniv_cd)
Joined: 8 years ago

Reputable Member     Minneapolis, Minnesota, United States of America
Posts: 260

@gracepal 

Grace, That is a question that will be answered only if you venture out en femme. I wrote an article a few years back entitled, “ Genivieve’s First Girls Night Out” read it if you would and see if anything makes sense. I am by no means petite. Yet when I ventured out into public, day or night,  I always wore heels whether in a dress or in jeans, and I never had a negative reaction from anyone around me or a negative experience. Granted I had been in the closet of my residence or hotel room for a very long time, practicing being a woman. When I finally mustered the courage to go out, I realized that my fears were imaginary only! By the way I loved being out and had so much fun in female mode! 

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@geniv_cd I am certain you are right GB😊

Reply
Lady
(@kendra2024)
Joined: 1 month ago

Estimable Member     Chicago, Illinois, United States of America
Posts: 58

@gracepal I think I've rapidly transcended the "man in a dress". I look at myself in the mirror and shake my head and laugh, because it doesn't seem possible I can look as good as I think I do. However, my female friends that have been out with me assure me that my looks are not a problem. One even used the word "classy". At the restaurant I've been frequenting, THREE different times, a woman seated at the table next to me has complimented me on what I'm wearing...and once I complimented someone at another table, and was well-received... Even though I'm not a great smiler, I often say and have noticed that a great smile goes a long way towards selling the image. Also, repeated positive experiences have generated a great deal of self-confidence, and THAT, too, goes a long way towards selling the image...does that answer some of your questions, Grace?

Reply
(@sometimessteffi)
Joined: 2 years ago

Trusted Member     Reston, Virginia, United States of America
Posts: 49

@gracepal 

I'm honest with myself.  I probably fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.  From 20 paces, I probably fool a lot of people.  Face to face, I probably don't fool anyone.  But getting a professional makeover really helps.

I got a professional makeover once when I was on travel in Houston.  I went shopping at Marshall's  I interacted with one SA, and I think she suspected but was not sure.  She sent another SA by to ask me if I needed any help.  I think she was really there to get a second opinion.

I was also rummaging through some of the racks of women's clothes.  An GG was doing the same thing within arm's length of me and didn't seem to pick up on it.

Another time I was in a small night club, and I actually got hit on.  I don't thin that the dude picked up on the obvious clues.  I'm going to attribute it to "beer goggles". I was there with a wing woman, but she was laughing so hard that she didn't bother to come to my rescue.  Eventually, I convinced the dude that I wasn't interested.  But for a while, I thought I might have to use "my man voice" to break the spell.

Reply
Posts: 174
Lady
(@kimdl94)
Reputable Member     Blearmill, Texas, United States of America
Joined: 9 months ago

It’s not always possible to know how one has been perceived by others.   Sometimes people are simply being polite when using pronouns.  Sometimes they are unsure and give us the benefit of the doubt.   And often they may accept at face (and form) value, unless and until proven otherwise.   I have most certainly passed on a few occassions.   For example, one evening I was drawn into conversation with a young woman who was part of a bachelorette party.  Near the end of the evening, I thanked her for me, a transgender woman, into their party.   She was momentarily surprised and then insisted she had assumed that I was a genetic woman.  I guess what she said was “a pretty, mature woman”.   Needless to say, I was walking on air!

another situation came as an even bigger surprise as part of a  conversation with the lady who owns my favorite wine bar. Ive known her for several years, but have always presented there as a woman.  In one conversation I briefly mentioned playing sports in HS.  She looked puzzled and observed that back when we were in school there really weren’t women’s sports.   In that moment, it dawned on me that she had been assuming that I was a genetic woman.  Rather than correct that, I  reminded her that I had many older brothers, so I naturally joined in.    

Reply
1 Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@kimdl94 That IS a surprise Kim. Hilarious really. People are really in their own little bubbles nowadays. But heck, I look at some of the pics on here and think, I wouldn’t look twice at this person on the street, I’d just figure they’re a girl walking by.

GP

Reply
Posts: 1113
Lady
(@margprodue)
Noble Member     Madison, Wisconsin, United States of America
Joined: 3 years ago

Hi Grace,  As an intersex person who's out and open I really don't care how people see me but if I go out as is (jeans and a top without makeup) I'll be seen as female half of the time.  If I glam up, then I usually just blend in and pass.  My body is super feminine but my face is like a Rolling Stone's Grandmother.  So, no matter what, I'm just the old lady in front of you.  I've learned to accept it and no longer think that I'm 37 (now I think I'm 57 lol).  My voice can pass but I really don't care so I'm just ready for however anyone perceives me.  If there's a question, I just tell them that I'm an intersex person and perhaps give them the 60 second lesson on intersex people (we are as common as red heads).  Thanks for this interesting question.  Marg

Reply
10 Replies
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@margprodue I dunno Marg. I read the “I really don’t care how people see me” line a lot here on CDH. Not sure I’m buying it. We all want to be accepted and appreciated at some point. Loved even. On some level.

Okay, I’ll bite. I have no idea what “intersex person” means. I’ll take the 60-second lesson if you’re willing to share🥰

GP

Reply
(@valentina16)
Joined: 4 weeks ago

Noble Member     Worcester, Worcestershire, United Kingdom
Posts: 771

@gracepal I was going to ask the same question ☺️

💚

Reply
Lady
(@margprodue)
Joined: 3 years ago

Noble Member     Madison, Wisconsin, United States of America
Posts: 1113

@gracepal  Sure Grace and Valentina, no problem.  Here's the economy version.  I give presentations all around the country on being intersex and you can read my profile to find  more about me.  We are the "I" in the LGBTIQ+ alphabet.  Intersex People are born with internal or external sex characteristics that differ from what the general public would identify as being male or female.  Intersex People make up 1.7 percent of the general population (about 2 out of every 100 people).  We are as common as redheads or twins and most Intersex People don't know that they are intersex unless there is a problem.  You can go to interactadvocates.org to learn more about all this.

As far as the "don't care" comment I just meant that I am what I am.  I know that I'm loved and accepted by people that I care about and have a happy fulfilling life.  I also know that I will always encounter people questioning what I am., I'm at the point of my life that I accept all that.  I would compare it to having a large birthmark on your face.  Maybe you recognize that people look at it whenever they meet you and it becomes an unwilling focal point.  So perhaps you spend extra time covering it up with concealer so people don't notice and focus on you as a person.  Conversely, you may just get tired of hiding and covering it up and not give a rats tail and perhaps even celebrate your special mark. Currently I choose to celebrate my intersexness openly and proudly, some days with sloppy jeans and a top and some days with a killer evening gown.  I hope that explains some of what I wrote and please do look at theinteractadvocates.org website.  It is an excellent source of correct information regarding intersex folks.  Thanks for asking about this,  Marg

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@margprodue Is this the same as a hermaphrodite?

Reply
Lady
(@margprodue)
Joined: 3 years ago

Noble Member     Madison, Wisconsin, United States of America
Posts: 1113

@gracepal  Hi Grace, Here in the US most Intersex folks see this as quite outdated and extremely offensive.  Kind of like using the word "trannie".  It doesn't explain us.  As a super simple 20 second answer, Intersex Folks commonly have differences in chromosomes (like XXY), or differences in hormones (like to much, too little or none, or differences in tissues (like mixed or the wrong style, like breasts in a man or a beard on a woman). It is incredibly rare to have even something like both sexual parts on the same person but there are some close historical examples.  Here's a quote taken from the Interact page.  Interact is the national USA organization for Intersex folks and I'm also a member.   ----  "Is intersex the same thing as being a “hermaphrodite?” No. “Hermaphrodite” (or the shortened “herm”) should never be used to describe an intersex person. Some intersex people have reclaimed these words for themselves, but they are usually considered a slur. There are many ways to have an intersex body, but it is not possible for one person to have both a fully developed penis and vagina.  The “h word” comes from mythology. It might suggest that intersex people are monsters, or not of this world. Many intersex people still see this slur used in their medical records."  ----           Interestingly, I have recently seen AI responses that have no understanding about this and I think are actually doing great harm to the Intersex Community with misinformation.  How do you tell a droid not to go searching for a string of words to put in a sentence and tell the world that this is a smart answer?   Perhaps I'll see you at Keystone or Atlanta Comfort Conference where I'm presenting and we can talk more.  Today if you see 50 people, the odds are that one of them may be intersex (and not even know it unless they've had a problem).  Remember that we all start out as women but for some of us nature gives us uniquely customized plans.  Thanks for being interested in our community.  Marg

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@margprodue Now I know🥰

Reply
(@valentina16)
Joined: 4 weeks ago

Noble Member     Worcester, Worcestershire, United Kingdom
Posts: 771

@margprodue thanks Marg for reminding me. 💚

Reply
Lady
(@harriette)
Joined: 2 years ago

Illustrious Member     Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4010

@margprodue I sort of knew some of this after meeting an intersex person on-line. Thanks for filling in a few holes in my knowledge.

Reply
Lady
(@margprodue)
Joined: 3 years ago

Noble Member     Madison, Wisconsin, United States of America
Posts: 1113

@harriette  Glad that it was useful.  I worried about hogging text space and bandwidth but figured that a two sentence reply just wouldn't be much of an explanation for all the interested folks.  When I present at Keystone, Atlanta and PFLAG's, I have an hour to an hour and a half to do the explanations on living as a Intersex Person but I am limited in blogs.  Happy weekend,  Marg

Reply
Lady
(@harriette)
Joined: 2 years ago

Illustrious Member     Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4010

@margprodue We shouldn't assume what we think others know or understand. As a community, if we can help others get up to speed on things, I say go for it.

Reply
Posts: 1451
(@finallyfiona)
    Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, United Kingdom
Joined: 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure I don't fool anyone into thinking that I'm anything other than a male (I won't use the word 'man').  But hopefully they'll see a male that's doing her best to live her feminine life openly 😊 

If anything, I think not making it too difficult to guess, makes it easier for me.  As they've already engaged with me mentally, even subconsciously, in making their guess.  By the time I engage in any sort of interaction with them, they know who they're dealing with.  So they're more relaxed about it and accepting of the differences in front of them. 

I'll take it 🙂

 

Reply
2 Replies
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@finallyfiona I like that answer Fluff. If a girl is trying her best to be a female, why not take them at face value? Who am I to say, no you shouldn’t be doing that? Or treat them as I would one of my “bros”, when it’s obvious that’s not what they want. No reason to be mean for mean’s sake. Crossdressers add nuance to the people mix. Nothing wrong with it🥰

Reply
(@finallyfiona)
Joined: 1 year ago

    Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 1451

@gracepal Absolutely! 🙂  Hugs, Fluff xxx

Reply
Posts: 296
Lady
(@prettytoes)
Prominent Member     alfred, Maine, United States of America
Joined: 2 months ago

i'm not totally passable but who cares. i guess no one really cares. i get alone with everyone and even have been thanked for going out dressed. some ask what is your pronoun? i tell them human. i try to look like a woman the best i can, but some things you can't hide. like voice, Adams apple and height. 10 years out dressed and 0 problems. it's all in your head. don't matter what people think about you, it's what you think about yourself. i went on a date with this guy once and he said i put in more effort than the real girls he's dated. i get complements from men and women. and lots of hugs. 

Reply
4 Replies
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@prettytoes Well, there’s no doubt that a lot of CD’s are putting in a helluva lot more effort than many GGs today. 10 years out and zero problems sounds like a winning record to me.😊

GP

Reply
(@rebeccabaxter)
Joined: 1 year ago

    Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 1312

@prettytoes I'm lucky in one small way—I have no discernible Adam's Apple, really, none.

Reply
Ambassador
(@beach-girl)
Joined: 7 years ago

Honorable Member     United States of America
Posts: 521
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@rebeccabaxter I might have an “Annie’s Apple”. Similar to Adam’s except cuter😊

Reply
Posts: 1117
Duchess Annual
(@firefly)
Noble Member     Panama, Panama, Panama
Joined: 7 years ago

I am primarily an indoor cat as well, Grace. One who lives in a hostile environment, where people with caveman mentality abound. However, I am now at a stage in my life where I have little interest in what others think. My life should be nobody else's business. Obviously I don't want them to make my life miserable. I appreciate you allowing me this opportunity to vent through this topic. Maybe I'm not answering any of your questions.

I live in an extremely conservative society. I have ventured out a few times in the last semester. Never from my main house. I always leave it in male mode. I am very careful. There will always be people who look at you well and others who look at you badly; but I feel that many are not even interested in looking at you. One problem here is that there are a few idiots who take photos of CDs and trans to upload them to the social networks and screw up someone's life. I don't understand what they gain from that. And if you walk around at night, as happened to me a few months ago when I went out for a walk from my hotel, you risk being approached as if you were an escort and having a really bad time. This scares me and leads me to take extreme precautions afterwards.

Fortunately, I have sporadic access to a secluded place where, at certain times and hours, I can walk around freely with little chance of anyone interfering. But I don't do it often. After all, as Aristotle said, I am a social animal. 

Gisela

Reply
1 Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@firefly All I have to read is Panama Gisela, to understand this post. But hey, glad to provide a “vent space” as we all need those now and then. Usually doesn’t change a situation you cannot change but it does make one feel better.🥰

GP

Reply
Posts: 1060
Managing Ambassador
(@melodeescarlet)
Famed Member     DC/Baltimore, Maryland, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

@gracepal

Posted by: @gracepal

Do you think you’re perceived by the general public who you engage with as...

Well....that's kinda the whole thing, isn't it? How they perceive me is going to be based on their opinions and experiences, and all of that is completely unknowable to me. So speculating is absolute guesswork and my guesses are going to be about me, not them., which gives me no information at all. (shrug) I may as well consider what they think of the McRib.

Reply
4 Replies
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@melodeescarlet Love me a McRib🤣. Once you start engaging with someone you get a pretty good idea within about 30 seconds if they’re accepting or hospitable to the idea of you. In any encounter. Most people have a gut feeling about it.

GP

Reply
Managing Ambassador
(@melodeescarlet)
Joined: 2 years ago

Famed Member     DC/Baltimore, Maryland, United States of America
Posts: 1060

@gracepal I'll never tire of saying it, but your reaction to them is about you, and not them. You're letting your opinions and experiences and insecurities try to guess what an entirely separate being's quite nuanced thoughts on you might be. Heck, even if you asked them outright, you still might not know!

Your gut is quite often correct when it comes to you. When it comes to strangers, your gut would probably fare as well as if you'd actually had a McRib.

Why expend the energy? Quite frankly, I think this anxiety over the opinions of strangers is the major reason indoor cats are indoor cats. 🤔 

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@melodeescarlet I totally agree with the stoic principles that teach that it’s all about how you react to the obstacles you come across in life.

GP

Reply
Lady
(@prettytoes)
Joined: 2 months ago

Prominent Member     alfred, Maine, United States of America
Posts: 296

@gracepal like i said before. they probably find you interesting and want to ask you a question or give you a complement. so they walk up to you and the first thing you think of is they are attacking me. by thinking like that you are no better than they are. you need to accept them like you want to be accepted.

Reply
Posts: 485
(@justnikki)
Prominent Member     Seattle, Washington, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

I'm pretty sure I don't pass, but lots of people tell me how great I look and that's good enough for me. I'm not going out trying to blend in or be invisible, I'm going out to be my authentic self. That works every time! Whether strangers see me as a man in a dress or just some flavor of LGTBQ (as I am) is really none of my business, and I don't concern myself much with it. My look varies from Bowie-era androgynous to ultrafemme, and I am literally always wearing some article or another of women's clothes. Ultimately, I'm only interested in passing as myself; it's SO much easier.

Reply
2 Replies
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@justnikki Interesting Nikki.

GP

Reply
Lady
(@prettytoes)
Joined: 2 months ago

Prominent Member     alfred, Maine, United States of America
Posts: 296

@justnikki well put. she knows what's its all about.

Reply
Posts: 220
Baroness
(@dianas1960)
Reputable Member     South Central, Indiana, United States of America
Joined: 9 years ago

I've never interacted with anybody to ask them that question directly. However, I suspect they think I may be transgender.  I don't think I pass upon close inspection at all.  Saying that I've used the restroom multiple times and have never been challenged before.

Reply
2 Replies
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@dianas1960 Challenging anyone when they need the restroom is not a wise move IMHO.😊

Reply
Ambassador
(@beach-girl)
Joined: 7 years ago

Honorable Member     United States of America
Posts: 521

@dianas1960 Likewise

Reply
Posts: 822
Lady
(@dazzler)
Noble Member     Cardiff, South Glamorgan, United Kingdom
Joined: 4 years ago

I spend probably 90% of my time as Cerys. This means I'm out and about most days, interacting with various people throughout the day.  Do I pass? I doubt it. Do I get negative comments or reactions? Never... I have heard a few "Is that a man" type comments. I have noticed a few people take a second look. Most people treat me with respect, there was one barista in a local coffee shop that always called me sir. He's no longer there. Dropping stuff off at a charity shop the other day the lady behind the counter who was busy, asked one of her colleagues if "she could help this lady". In other shops, my wife and I have had "Can I help you ladies?"  Overall, the whole experience of being a crossdeesser in the wild is positive.  I recommend it to everyone. Seriously, 90% of the people won't notice, and 99% of those that do won't say or do anything negative. 
Try and blend in. Try not to look "typically tranny". Try  not to draw attention to your self. Just act as though it's perfectly normal. Hold your head high, and carry on!

Cerys

Reply
1 Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@dazzler “Crossdressers in the Wild”. That’d be a good title for a new documentary ladies. The guy calling you sir only made himself look bad. 

GP

Reply
Posts: 1312
(@rebeccabaxter)
    Cornwall, United Kingdom
Joined: 1 year ago

Grace, as you know, I have been out and about many times. I'm pretty sure that at a distance, I don't ring any alarm bells, I am highly unlikely to be spotted as male from the other side of a shop. Closer in, some people, if they are taking an active interest, may spot me as not quite female; close up, I still fool some people; speaking—not at all, but I put so much effort into all my looks and mannerisms that people probably just unconsciously think 'well, he/she's trying hard'.

Take yesterday for example. I went into a Cotswold Clothing shop and found a heavy-duty winter jacket (unisex, I suppose) which was very expensive. I tried it on and decided to buy it, taking it to the counter in full-on Becca-mode. I softened my voice, even though I was going to fool no one at such close quarters, but I instinctively tried anyway. The man who served me (I would say he was in his forties) told me all about the guarantee, how to waterproof it when necessary and if I gave him my email address, it would extend the warranty to three years. I gave him Becca's email address and he addressed me as Becca, checking the spelling (I am Becca but my email address uses Bekka because Becca was taken). He was unfazed, making eye contact (and I with him) and serving me exactly the same as he would anyone who was paying a lot of money for an item. I did not feel intimidated, unsure of myself or nervous in any way—confidence is everything.

Move on an hour and my wife and I are sat having coffee in a Marks and Spencer cafe. Just as we finished and were starting stand up, an elderly woman came and sat at the table next to us. The woman noticed me and stared...and I mean STARED at me, probably for a good 30 seconds or so. She obviously thought something was amiss (or she was an ageing lesbian who found me stunningly attractive—I'm going with that). I smiled at her as we picked up our stuff and left. I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt, but in my heart of hearts, I think she was being quite rude. The way she came across, I can imagine that she would stare at anyone out of the ordinary—two gay men, a woman with no hair through cancer treatment, or even someone who had a giant spot on their nose. It might just be what she does.

These people are rare, in fact including her, only three people have made their observations blatant (but none have said anything) in the year I've been going out dressed. In truth, that's far fewer people than who might previously have looked at me in drab, before I became a cross-dresser, and sported shorts (365 days a year), odd socks, a shaved head and a blue beard. I'm used to being looked at; as a cross-dresser who tries really hard to look good, I don't think I'm looked at often enough! Laugh Cry  

As Abe Lincoln was reputed to have said: You can fool all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all the time.

Shouldn't stop you trying though.

Hugs

Becca

Reply
8 Replies
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@rebeccabaxter What aging lesbian WOULDN’T love you Becs??? That had to be the case for sure.🤣

Someone with a shaved head and a blue beard would certainly be accustomed to being noticed. I can see where you have issues with NOT being looked at. I’d probably be thinking the same thing myself, “What am I, chopped liver over here???”

I’m waiting for someone to relate a story of a completely uncalled for, overboard reaction from someone unburdened by politeness, feelings and common sense. So far, it’s all pretty positive and that’s what I thought it would be honestly. 

GP

Reply
(@rebeccabaxter)
Joined: 1 year ago

    Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 1312

@gracepal I have seen one or two disheartening stories here on CDH but I think it has mostly been in connection with SOs or other people the CDer knows personally. Perhaps the reason the stories are mostly positive is because every cross-dresser [instinctively] knows where it is safe to go and where it is not, and one is usually only going to get negative reactions in unsafe places, the very places where people like us won't go.

There are places in the world where for a man to go out dressed as a woman would be tantamount to suicide; Panama being a case in point, as mentioned by Gisela above. Every country has dangerous places, the States, for example (more now, perhaps), and also here in the UK, and NOT going there gives rise to more positive than negative outcomes regarding stories of successful trips out.

Reply
Duchess Annual
(@firefly)
Joined: 7 years ago

Noble Member     Panama, Panama, Panama
Posts: 1117

@rebeccabaxter The younger Panamanian people give me a little hope.

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@rebeccabaxter Using common sense is never a bad thing😊

Reply
Duchess
(@mkat3874)
Joined: 4 months ago

Reputable Member     Northeast GA , Georgia, United States of America
Posts: 192

@gracepal 

A few weeks ago I asked one of my CD friends who has been going out for 25 years and goes anywhere and everywhere dressed in the metro ATL area if she had encountered any trouble.  In that entire time she had only one instance early on of a couple of women coming out of a mall asking rudely if she was a man or woman.  Her response was something on the order of "look at how I'm dressed and that's who I am."

 

 

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@mkat3874 Too bad she didn’t say “If you don’t know then I’m doing a pretty good job.”🥰

That reminds me when I watch HGTV and someone says  - Are those granite countertops and the realtor says no. Then they come back and say, well I really want granite. I always want to say - If you couldn’t tell whether they were real granite or not then what does it matter?

Reply
Duchess
(@mkat3874)
Joined: 4 months ago

Reputable Member     Northeast GA , Georgia, United States of America
Posts: 192

@gracepal 

Very good point!

Reply
(@oliviac)
Joined: 2 years ago

Prominent Member     Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 316

@rebeccabaxter I'm with Grace Becca. She couldn't look away as you were so stunning. And you are right. We should keep trying to be the best woman we can and keep getting out there being ourselves.

Reply
Posts: 1793
Baroness Annual
(@d44)
Famed Member     New York, United States of America
Joined: 5 years ago

As many here have said, it is hard to guess what other people are thinking.

But to answer your question, I believe the majority of people who see me believe that I am a woman. Genetically I'm lucky because I'm thin, have smaller hands, hairless arms and legs and a sparse, hard to see gray beard. I have worked hard on clothing, mannerisms and makeup in order to blend in and live my life as a woman. I have had countless dealings with people who believed I was a female.

In depth interactions with people is a different story because of my voice. If it's just a quick "thank you" I get away with it many times but anything more than that immediately pegs me as a trans woman.

But most people, especially women, don't seem to overly care. 

 

Reply
4 Replies
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017

@d44 Well, nobody is a mind reader but one can get a sense from people’s demeanor towards them. You are certainly an authority here Fiona, as you “walk the walk”.

GP

Reply
Baroness Annual
(@d44)
Joined: 5 years ago

Famed Member     New York, United States of America
Posts: 1793

@gracepal That is so nice of you to say Grace. You have a hug coming your way at Keystone!

Thank you.

Fiona

Reply
Duchess
(@gracepal)
Joined: 5 months ago

Noble Member     South Carolina, United States of America
Posts: 1017