Toxic Masculinity?!

Hi, ok, I am going to say this right out "not all masculinity is bad!" Sure, some of that misaligned old school masculinity that we may have witneesed in the past is,such as drinking enougb alcohol to get drunk, be such as avant spirts fanatic, that you are willing to physically fighf someone who is an avid fan of your teams arxh rival. A woman's place is in the kitchen! Never show emotions, because real men are tough! Do not do anythinv at all whatsoever that may be considered feminine, or wimpy, etc. And the lust goes on!

Now here iscsome traits of healthy masculinity. Being a good father, working hard to provide for your family, being attentive to both your wives and children's needs, both making and standing your ground on tough decisions. Even when they are nof popular at all, both allowing yourself to show emotions, yet knowing how to control and limit anger, so that you do not hurt someone with you venom, forgiveness is a godly trait! I can go on and on about this.

I want to let you all know here tgat I am being transparent. My father exemplified what toxic masculinity was. At a very young age, my parents divorced. I really have to honestly say that was the vety first time tgat my crossdressing desires had started.

Fast forward to today, I still remain on going back and forth with it all!

That is my story. I hope that helps some of us, including myself.

Hi Victoria, I not trying be argumentative when I say this, I had a step dad growing up who was not a nice person, but it has nothing to do with gender. Consider a parent who's controlling, abusive to their children, has anger issues ect. This parent could be male or female, indeed a close colleagues of mine grew up with such a mother. It's not a male or female thing is a person thing.

I agree with you Lisa, I believe the phase is completely sexist and no link should be made with a person's gender and negative phrases or  perjoratives. If person is has negative traits why do people link such attributes to gender. Women can be as controling as men.

Love Trisha

There are definitely TOXIC people out there. I have experienced both toxic males and toxic females in my life. I think the toxic masculinity phrase might come from several areas.  If I am dressed up and go somewhere, I would say that I am more likely to be called names, confronted or beat up by a male. I am sure women could attack me, but it is much less likely. There are also a lot more men in prisons for violent crimes than women. But yes there are many very good people out there of all gender and types.

While I admit that men are more likely to cause trouble trouble with than a woman would, I still believe that men are more likely to be persecuted for being manly. Also because of the position men are put in they are less likely to report  violence towards them, whether the aggressor is male or female. Especially if the aggressor is female.

Trisha,

I think that you’re absolutely correct that ‘toxicity’ is something either gender can equally possess.  I think the reason you see this phrase applied more to men is because of the differences in the genders and the way that the people typically manifest their ‘toxicity.’   For males, there is often a physicality and/or violence component, for females it is often more emotionally/relationally based.  I think Eva’s response highlights this, that fear of being physically assaulted is higher with men than women (though both are absolutely capable of it) and she reminded me of a story that another CD friend of mine shared with me in that she never had an issue out in public from a man, but on several occasions had issues with teenage girls in malls ridiculing her and following her around.  She wasn’t afraid of a physical assault from them, but did bear the brunt of their emotional assault.  I’ve been in war and seen first hand the violence that men can inflict physically.  Without exaggeration can say with confidence that that ‘toxicity’ level is only matched by that of American 8th to 10th Grade girls whose capacity for emotional violence is stunning - and the cause of so many suicides and horribly damaged psyches in young women.  But no one is going to coin the phrase of ‘toxic femininity’ to represent that because it’s not PC.

And this brings it back to your point Trisha, that I think there is a perception of the physical toxicity (most commonly delivered by men) being “worse” or somehow more abhorrent than the emotional toxicity exhibited by women, i.e., physical violence versus emotional violence.  Again, both genders are fully capable of delivering either, but the perceptions are different and the current PC intolerance for men makes this all the more acute - especially in the minds of those victims of ‘confirmation bias,’ because it is easy to see the physical, not so easy to see the emotional.

Sorry about the length of this, and the fact that it turned into a little bit of a rant I think, but you struck a chord with your post here.  I like both my masculine and feminine selves equally, and try hard not be toxic in either and don’t like the presumption by anyone of my masculine side being so!

Marcellette

My ex told me that teenage high school girls can be and sometimes are mean.

Marcellette, you don't need to apologise for the Length of your reply, personal I like longer more detailed ones as it gives people more to think about.

It is the double standard that annoys me. In my reply to Victoria I mentioned a former step dad I had. He primarily inflicted mental harm to my family, and it only turned physical once to my knowledge, after which she did not take him back.

I believe that they each are as harmful as the other and shold be treated so. Feminism argue for equality. This would be an equal approach.

Love Trisha

My reply was principally in the direct response to the term "Toxic Masculinity." I just really felt the need to chime in and give my thoughts on what I had considered healthy vs. Toxic, because as you all are already aware, anything manly is considered toxic these days.

The term "toxic masculinity" is not only sexist, in that it assumes only males can be "toxic" which patiently is not the case, but it is also offensive and often used in the wrong context. I have heard the term used to describe a group of males laughing, joking, making sexist, or racist "jokes". We've all seen them, and I suspect many of us at some point in our lives have been part of this culture. The problem here is that the macho culture is self perpetuating, it feeds on it's self. A man entering a bar or pub and meeting a group of males, is drawn in, as the crude "jokes" are bandied about our man is compelled to laugh and go along with this behaviour because that is how society has conditioned him. He may not think the "joke" is funny, he may even comment "you can't say that" but he will invariably laugh because that is the done thing. We are conditioned by society to conform, that is how we have been brought up for decades, going against this conditioning is not easy.  Unfortunately the macho culture has grown, just because of the conditioning we all have within us and will continue to grow unless 'society' changes and more men move away form this culture. As a crossdresser I know only too well how hard it is to move away form the 'norm' and to go against society's conditioning. But to go back to the original topic, is this behaviour "toxic" well other words for toxic are poisonous and venomous, in most cases these words would not apply to the macho culture. Yes, the culture is in many cases sexist, homophobic and racist and most certainly society does need to do something about it, but unless it is targeted at an individual I would say it is not so much toxic, more unpleasant ignorance................