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Trigger Warning: I post this because it has triggered me. If this might upset you, it might be best to skip this post.
I came across an article last week that said that while trans women are women, they are not female. I was stunned when I read this. I have always thought of myself as female and a woman. I always felt they sort of go hand in hand. So I spent the weekend mulling this over, trying to reconcile this. I finally had to research it on my own. I was hoping to find an article about this on some transgender site or maybe some kind of study that was done, but I found none. All I managed to find in that short time was some posts on Quora or similar type sites where it was asked are trans women female. I did find a trans woman's blog where she asked that question. She even had a poll where she asked that question. 51% of the people that responded to her poll said yes. I was happy but then I read on. She claimed to be shocked by the results then said she totally disagreed with that 51% that said trans women were female. She went on to explain why she felt that way. None of it made sense to me and there was some misinformation in her reasoning. I quit reading not too long after she said she disagreed. I went on in my "research", the hatred the transphobia that I found left me feeling gutted and I was crying. My wife came to me and asked what was wrong. When I explained it to her she told me not to listen to them that they were just transphobic and idiots. I gritted my teeth and I looked at her and asked "do you see me as a female?" her reply was "yes". No hesitation, no buts... I asked my daughter the same. she too replied with a firm yes. I mildly felt better. I tossed and turn all last night with this in my head.
My reasoning that I believe that I am female is something that my wife's therapist said to her once. She is the second born child and there have been studies that suggested that the firstborn sibling is almost always the most successful. In my wife's case, being the second born she is more successful than her brother. See if you were to look at my wife, you would see the typical cis woman, but the way she walks talks, and thinks she really has more male characteristics. Me on the other hand, I am not a large man, I have never had the full beard and hairy like an ape. My beliefs, some of my mannerisms are female. my hands are small compared to a man, bigger than a woman's though. I don't have the same characteristics as a man. I am very much an empath and a compassionate person. I am more open to people's emotions than most men. I don't mean to imply that men can't have those attributes, but most men I have met don't. I have even had people tell me that they think I am more feminine than I am masculine. I guess what I am saying is that yes, biologically I was born male, but everything else about me is female. Does biology alone dictate what makes us male and female? There is that DNA argument as to why we will always be male or female. To me, our DNA is only the blueprint of our external body. Sort of like a blueprint is the framework of our house. It's just a building. How we decorate it and what we put inside of it is what makes it a home.
So My question to you is: Are trans women female? I will even ask, are crossdressers female?
For those of you that don't know me, I am a trans woman. So this post is written from that context and my sincerest apologies if I have offended anyone. That was not my intent. I am trying to fight this battle that is raging in me right now and appreciate any insight you all might have on this topic. I hope this doesn't trigger anyone.
I am sorry Heather. I think about the question you propose and the more I think abut it the more mixed up I get, starts to make my head hurt. It is like the question asked on another forum recently -what do you call yourself - transgender, bisexual, questioning, or what. sometimes I think of myself as just a crossdresser and sometimes on the road down the trans line, looking into hrt.
So to answer your question I think some trans women are female and some are not, this step is is not just in your head but deep in your soul. Like my example of where I am, some trans women waver back and forth and some are solidly where they are
Yes it is making my head hurt thinking about this.
. . . .Cassie
Hi Cassie,
Thank you for replying. I understand what you mean. It makes my head hurt and I am suffering a large amount of dysphoria over it. As I stated it kept me awake all night trying to reconcile this. I can certainly agree with you that some trans women are female and some aren't. I am starting to formulate in my head that like "transgender" being an umbrella term for gender identity, I starting to think that being male or being female can be viewed the same way. My wife is definitely more masculine than I have ever been, but that doesn't necessarily make her a man. I have always seen myself as a woman, and as a female. I have never seen myself as a man or male. It just cuts across the grain for me.
Good luck on your journey.
Heather
A definition of "man" and "woman would be helpful, otherwise it's all left to assumptions and feelings - which aren't very accurate measuring systems.
If you mean biologically, then you are what you are born and no intervention can change that.
If it's more a conceptual thing, then the case is already closed.
If you feel you are a woman, conceptually and emotionally, then there's no question really - you are.
Scientifically, only science can measure that, and it would be against a list of criteria - so if you held an opinion poll, you're only going to get opinions, based on... what, exactly?
Conceptually, I would hazard a guess that many people would reason along the lines of: No womb = man.
It's humorously referred to in the Monty Python film, "Life of Brian", and, outwardly, seems a reasonable measure.
It certainly stacks up against the arguments of HRT and "I feel like a woman so I must be one" - this may be your feeling, but no-one else can feel it, is the somewhat brutal truth.
I know that I am over-simplifying in that last sentence - and I hope not to have trodden on any toes - but the evidence is the important thing.
Evidence starts with good definitions and empirically measurable criteria, otherwise you're just stating an opinion - which, as the poll indicates, over half of respondents didn't agree with - which is fair, since it is only opinions. Opinions are like bottoms. Everyone has one, but not all are worth sharing...
Un-trigger yourself, honey, and get a medical certificate or something that verifies your status - then people can argue with the certificate issuer (who should be a trusted authority and thus harder to dispute).
Love Laura
Thinking a little more on your post, you mentioned that you are blessed with empathy' compation and open to others emotions, describing these as feminine traits. I think a lot of men have these traits to one extent or another but suppress them in order not to appear to 'feminine'.
. . Cassie
I can agree with you that it is just opinions. Because really that is all we really have to go upon. As far as science, just because they say this makes a male and this makes a female doesn't mean it is right. A lot of therapists still consider being transgender the wrong way. As far as your statement, no womb = man. what of a woman that is born without a uterus? does that make her a man? what of intersex people? many times medical science (ie doctors) force their family members to assign them to be male. I have read many stories of intersex people that were forced to be male but later changed because they never were male. they were female.
in the end, you are right. it is going to come down to what the individual believes. thank you for taking the time to reply.
Hi Heather I have been a part of the CD/TG community for many years mostly in late teen and early twenties I decided to leave it for reasons that do not need to be discussed in this open forum. I did date a post op trans woman for for a couple of months. I thought she would be excepting of my desires to cross dress when I wanted but even she was turned of by the sight of my feminine presentation. I met her in a CD/TG night club and she presented and looked every bit as a woman or a female if you like. MY sexual experience with her was no different than any other male and female relation. She had a vagina and all the other attributes of any other woman .She did express so many times she would love he ability to conceive and have a baby that she felt it would complete her transformation but unfortunately for her she was not given that ability due to the sex she was born. I have read so many cis woman are not able to get pregnant for so many reasons. but science and technology are helping those in need incredibly at the speed of light. So does ability to create life the point where you are recognized as a female, not just having a vagina. I believe this is a discussion for the TGH site .There would be more insight and much more thought. Just my opinion.
Luv Stephanie
I don't care what you look like or what you wear, it's what's in your heart and in your head. I've said before, I'm the proverbial woman trapped in a man's body and due to medical reasons can't transition. People think people transition just for fun, no, they transition to make them look the way they feel. I don't agree with them competing in sports against genetic women, lets be honest, men are physically stronger. There's currently a trans woman weight lifter competing, not fair.
So the debate really is gender, not biological sex.
The main issue then is how the question is framed, as the average Joe really doesn't know the difference.
Gender is a construct, so open to interpretation and a valid field for argument.
To be of the female gender, or somewhere on a sliding scale - or to be whatever gender you choose to be on a given date is up to you, and not up for question by anyone else.
When I go out en femme, most people I interact with treat me like a lady, and that's how it should be - or rather, that's part of the enjoyment!
Biology is a science, albeit a somewhat messy one, and best left to experts rather than opinion polls.
I agree - even experts can get it wrong - and I wasn't trying to present the "womb" argument as fact, rather as a typical assumption that someone might make: I come across that attitude in a lot of men. Probably Python fans...
Love Laura
Trans women ARE women AND female. All of these parts are what is in your mind. Try not to let others define you. You are what you believe you are.
There is a similar situation here in the U.K. where some high profile women and womens groups have questioned trans rights. The issue seemed to gather speed after it was ruled that any one could self classify as trans. This afforded them the protection in law.
This led to a large increase in prisons of self identifying which led to better conditions and privileges. Then cases where a couple of trans persons, who had histories of violence against women, were sent to womens prisons and assaulted inmates.
The debate was then sensationalised by the media, the above groups, and high profile women about this and the trans issues where they did not want to see trans in womens spaces, such as changing rooms, ladies rooms and refuges. The media had reported them saying that 'Womens rooms would be full of self identifying trans in changing rooms' Then the issue of whether they are women. Stonewall got involved with defending the right to self identify and it started to make more headlines and entrenched positions. J.K. Rowling, the Harry Potter author, comments about what are women called now. She was trolled terribly on the media sites by trans activists.
The women who were making comments would say that they had no issue with trans persons per se but the dialogue was about the fact they are still male as the chromosones dictate that and where they should be allowed. I pointed out that it was also little known that the government had drafted up new regulations would have effectively stopped trans persons using the womens facilities. I have used the ladies room for many years with no issues but these regulations would have made it illegal. I objected to my M.P. and he replied promptly and it went up the ladder and , not because of me, I learned it had been shelved.
Last month I was at home working away and there was a programme discussing this topic and most of the above was being discussed. It was one side against the other and getting no where. I called in and spoke to a researcher and stated who I was and my opinion. She thanked me. A couple of minutes later the phone rang and I was invited on air. In for a penny....
The presenter introduced me and this is the gist of what I said. It is my personal opinion. I felt that self identification without any other proof can lead to the fears that had been expressed and should have some medical or psychological assessment as proof.
I agreed that how on earth could persons with a history of violence against women be housed in a womens prison as not offend their rights? What about risk assessments and safety of the others? It is usual to isolate such prisoners, trans or not.
Why couldn't a trans person who has been subjected to domestic violence be housed in a refuge. That is what they are there for. They are a last resort if there is no where else to go.
As for womens spaces I would agree a dubious self identifying male that is in no way trans would be conspicuous in such a space and hastily removed. Have there been any reports? I haven't seen or heard of any. It is scaremongering.
My argument was that trans persons have been mixing for years and would never be noticed as they are just another woman. Who would actually know?
I said that I have used ladies facilities for years, that my employers , family friends and neighbours have accepted me as the person they see. I live as a woman and cannot see how I am demeaning women or lessening their rights or identity. How I define myself is up to me and what the law allows, and how I am accepted in society. I believe the debate on sex and gender is pointless and what is the debate trying to achieve? It does not show any side in a good light. In my experience the public as a whole are quite accepting and respectful.
What this debate will do is turn public opinion against trans and make our lives uncomfortable by tarring us as perverts, women beaters and could possibly lead to violence against us.
Stonewall and these groups should look at what they are doing to the real trans in the population who just want to get on with our lives. Stop dragging us into this debate and understand the harm they could do to us.
We do not pose any threat and does it matter that we consider ourselves women as that is what we see ourselves as, present as and are accepted as.
The presenter didn't interject at any point, and neither did any of the others. He ended by stating that it was a heartfelt opinion and food for thought. The others agreed that they respected trans people and there right to live as they do, contrary to what they had said in restricting our right to live our lives.
I had my say on the matter and felt good. Due to other issues here this has fallen out of the news.
So to Heather, I will offer this...Whatever you see yourself as and that you are accepted is confirmation enough. If you are able to live your life as the woman you see yourself as is also an affirmation. There will be detractors but, as your poll shows, more people agree than not, whether the author agrees is neither here nor there. What is important is the people close to you accept and encourage you. Live the life you want and to hell with the rest.
For myself been transition to a woman for awhile about month ago just went through facial surgery had my stitches taken out today. Next month going in to get bottom surgery done. After that Let the HRT taking do it thing. I will consider myself a female then.
Donna
Thank you Lisa
big hugs
Donna
Are Transwomen Women ?
In my opinion , a definite YES , no doubts about that !
I dare say some Transwomen are more Female than some women biologically born as a woman.
Are Crossdressers Female ?
Biologically not , but I think mentaly for most , their Feminine side is usually as large or larger then their male side.
As a crossdresser I can only speak for myself.
If I could have chosen , I would have preferred to be born as a woman.
A lot of things in my life would have been a lot easier for me I think.
This being so , I don't consider my body to be Female , my mind however is a completely different story.
Even at six years old when you don't have a clue about Life itself , I was already drawn to Female attire.
Where does this feeling come from at this age ?
I don't know.
Not from any kind of experience I think.
I mean you are only six years old !
So you are probably born this way.
This feeling comes from somewhere in your soul.
So for Crossdressers , I think a large part of their being is Feminine.
I consider myself to be Female partially , and over the last few years , I have experienced that my Feminine side is getting larger the older I become !
Hello Heather
Are transwomen female they are most definitely female, there is a section of extreme feminists who will never accept that. I think you have to them pass by, the real question is do your family friends and community accept you. Are transwomen women yes they are the main thing is accept yourself, you know you are a woman. Crossdressers are women in mind - emotions but not in body, although some of us can pass off physically. For me accept yourself on how you see and believe how you are, if the negative thinkers want to differ who cares ignore them.
Love Sarah
xx
