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What do you see?

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Posts: 59
Lady
Topic starter
(@emmajones)
Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Joined: 6 months ago
I've been sitting on this question, worried about asking it for fear of offending.  But perhaps it's ok if I can get the tone right.  So I'll try.  If I offend I'm so sorry, I'm trying to understand what's going on in me.  Jump to the last paragraph if you want to know what I'm on about.
 
Up until last week, I think that whenever I stumbled on images of people crosdressed I had an inner voice like "I can tell they're a man, yuck, not attractive".  I know, it's horrible, as though women only exist for me to be attracted to.  I carried that judgemental attitude on to myself when I dressed up in lingerie and looked in the mirror.
 
And on the rare occasion I didn't spot any masculinity and did feel a hint of attraction, I got uncomfortale and conflicted.
 
Even when @alexina pointed me to Savannah Hauk, and I searched and found a Ted talk, I initially turned away, as though some "man in a dress" alarm went off.  Thankfully the next day I looked again and saw things differently, and actually listened and everything was perfect - so much admiration.
 
So if I'm brutally honest, some part of the judgemental inner dialogue is still there, but hopefully fading?  I've spotted more times where I feel respect, admiration, compassion, and recognised beauty both in the sense of others' physical appearance and comfort in their own self.
 
Only now do I understand the notion of expressing a female side, I barely just started accepting my own feminine thoughts about myself.
 
I'm trying to say, I'm not yet sure what is normal to feel when I see photos of other crossdressers, and I get confused.  I doubt other people see such heartless judgemental thoughts in themselves, but I do wonder, was there a phase when you had them, and does it fade?
 
Emma
 
 
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37 Replies
16 Replies
Baroness
(@annaredhead)
Joined: 10 months ago

Famed Member     Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posts: 1671

@emmajones As a man in a dress, I'll have a go at answering this. I am pragmatic enough to know that I'm never going to be beautiful, but hope that I scrub up ok.

When I see a photo of another crossdresser, I feel a sense of admiration and affection towards someone who has put the effort into looking their best. If I see a crossdresser younger than me, I feel a sense of regret for not regularly crossdressing and wearing makeup when I was younger.

I also look for ideas of outfits or styles that I might want to try and also recognise in them a kindred spirit of someone expressing themselves.

Do I feel judgemental in a negative way - no, nor have I done so that I remember. I had known from being fairly young that I needed to do this, but was in my 20s before I realised I wasn't alone and in my 50s before finding a sisterhood.

Anna

 

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Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@annaredhea, thanks for your reply.  I think I can relate to that sense of regret you mentioned, in my case for not having had a more accepting mindset at a younger age.

Emma

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Ambassador
(@alexina)
Joined: 1 year ago

Famed Member     Fife, United Kingdom
Posts: 2016

@emmajones 

Hi, Emma and thanks for the mention 😊.

Now it's my turn to say that I recognise much of what you've said. I'll take your two last paragraphs, but not in order, and offer my thoughts.

I'm trying to say, I'm not yet sure what is normal to feel when I see photos of other crossdressers, and I get confused

1: I hope you can see the irony and therefore, humour, in speaking about "normal" in a forum on a crossdresser website. We, quite rightly, see what we do as perfectly normal -and healthy -but "society" does not. It's a matter of perspective, no more than that. 

2: A lot of our reactions to images are as a result of the type of image. Some crossdresser pics are clearly early attempts and, while just as valid, are not as polished nor as "attractive" to the eye as others, mine being a suitable example 🙄. Some are much more practised and look much more natural, often even better than GG's and we can appreciate the work that's gone in to achieve that. And then....some are just plain sexy. That was the aim of the subject and/or the photographer. The only difference between a sexy looking crossdresser and a sexy looking gg, lies in the knowledge of the viewer. Of course we'll find both attractive but, a heterosexual viewer will only wish to act on this attraction with the gg. (Other sexual preferences are available).

And I believe that brings us to possibly your most salient point, that of acceptance.

Only now do I understand the notion of expressing a female side, I barely just started accepting my own feminine thoughts about myself.

Exactly! Here is what I, too, recognise about myself, not just an increase in understanding but an openness to understand more about this feminine part of ourselves. This, more than clothes, makeup, even the shoes, and OMG the shoes! Yes this is what I mean when I speak about this community having the potential to change lives. Far from suffering shame and guilt, I am proud of who I am becoming for I am a much better and whole person because of the openness I've found here and that I'm now adopting in my own life. I sincerely hope you can see this too, Emma.

No, not offended, encouraged and hopeful because of your question. Keep them coming!

Allie x

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(@finallyfiona)
Joined: 1 year ago

    Leighton Buzzard, Bedfordshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 1417

@alexina Allie I sat and struggled for quite a while to write a reply to this thread last night.  I just couldn't find a way to express what I was thinking, but needn't have worried, because you've done it for me 🙂  Thank you for putting my thoughts in order!

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Ambassador
(@alexina)
Joined: 1 year ago

Famed Member     Fife, United Kingdom
Posts: 2016
Managing Ambassador
(@ellyd22)
Joined: 2 years ago

Majestic Member     Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posts: 4983

@alexina 

God, Allie ... what an absolutely AMAZING response!

Smile Face

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Ambassador
(@alexina)
Joined: 1 year ago

Famed Member     Fife, United Kingdom
Posts: 2016

@ellyd22 

Thanks, Ellie. 

First a hostess, now such praise! I'll be getting delusions of adequacy 😂

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Ambassador
(@alexina)
Joined: 1 year ago

Famed Member     Fife, United Kingdom
Posts: 2016

@ellyd22 

thought your profile pic looked different from yesterday, I'm loving the few that you've got up already. Like so many other makeover pics, the sheer joy jumps off the page!

Allie x

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Managing Ambassador
(@ellyd22)
Joined: 2 years ago

Majestic Member     Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posts: 4983

@alexina 

Yeah ... I uploaded a new photo to my public gallery, and Angela suggested I should use it as my profile pic 🙂

I'll think I'll stick with this one. I really like it!

Ellie x

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Ambassador
(@alexina)
Joined: 1 year ago

Famed Member     Fife, United Kingdom
Posts: 2016

@ellyd22 

It conveys the same sense of fun that your old one did, just brought up to date 😊 

Allie x

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Managing Ambassador
(@ellyd22)
Joined: 2 years ago

Majestic Member     Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posts: 4983

@alexina 

Yay!

That's what I was aiming for 🙂

Ellie x

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Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@alexina 

speaking about "normal" in a forum on a crossdresser website

Ha!  I honestly didn't spot that until you pointed it out!

I had to look up "GG", but I now I know that.  Am getting the hang of it 🙂

I keep re-reading what you wrote, there's so much here to process!  Like the point about the only difference in the photo being in the internal knowledge of the viewer, and the openness.

Thank you so much, this is so helpful for me.

Emma

 

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Ambassador
(@alexina)
Joined: 1 year ago

Famed Member     Fife, United Kingdom
Posts: 2016

@emmajones 

It's a pleasure, Emma. As I've said often, there's a huge amount of experience here and you're welcome to as much as you need to help you make sense of it all.

If course the simple answer is regularly cited here, we do it because we like it 😊.

Allie x

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Lady
(@kimdl94)
Joined: 9 months ago

Reputable Member     Longview, Texas, United States of America
Posts: 169

@emmajones   I appreciate the effort made a person who presents well as a woman, through the combination of innate features and craft.  And I will confess to being judgmental at times and at some times I just feeling a bit of sadness for those who of us are less gifted by nature or talent.

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Lady
(@raven188)
Joined: 6 years ago

Prominent Member     Idaho, United States of America
Posts: 504

@emmajones 

Good thoughts. I don't think you're being offensive, you're just being honest. An honest exploration of our thoughts and feelings will often lead to uncomfortable understanding. I think as long as you're doing this in good faith, it's fine, and this is usually a safe space to open up about these sorts of thoughts.

Here are my thoughts.

When I see crossdressers that I can tell are crossdressers, my usual reaction is that I want them to feel that they're not alone. I saw somebody the other day walking down the street and thought, " I need to run home and dress up and walk out so we can meet."

I never feel anything negative about the "guy in the dress" in and of itself. That's all the more I can usually hope for for myself anyway.

I do have to be honest though, some people do look better than others. I mean, I don't think there's any sense in pretending that you think something (outfit, presentation, effort, etc) looks good when it doesn't. But usually there's no reason to say anything. So I keep my thoughts to myself. I'd probably only ever say anything if it was a close friend and we were getting ready to go out and she wanted help and honest feedback.

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Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@raven188 

Want you to know I appretiate the honesty so much!  And how you expressed it with such perfect balance. 

I love the bit about wanting to run back home to dress up when you saw someone else!

Emma

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Posts: 2081
 J J
Lady
(@jjandme)
Famed Member     California, United States of America
Joined: 5 years ago

We all react and develope differently, so there is not right or wrong...within reason. 

I look at some CD photos and I am really attracted, but others, not so much. I am happy for anybody you has made the decision to dress, and even.more so to ppst a picture. I try very hard to be nonjudgemental, but am happy to offer comments and advice if asked, or leave just positive comments if not. I hope I have never left a negative comment.

As for myself, I have mixed reactions to my own look. I used to be very.critical, but have lightened up on myself and just accept who I am and how I look, thoigh I do try to improve both.

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1 Reply
Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@jjandme 

Your reply, and the others here, are helping me start to realise how irrelevant my thoughts relating to attraction are.  Since I know I'm attracted to women, and also getting more embedded in this community, of course my own responses to seeing others are going to be varied.

Glad to hear that the self view can lighten up over time.  Perhaps it's something about disentangling the expression of femininity from the attraction to femininity - they start to seem like they might be different things.

Emma

 

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Posts: 967
Managing Ambassador
(@melodeescarlet)
Famed Member     DC/Baltimore, Maryland, United States of America
Joined: 1 year ago

@emmajones If I had to guess, I'd say that you probably haven't come to grips yet with your own feelings on what you're attracted to and/or how you feel about your own dressing.

I think it's crucial to accept yourself because until that happens, the very notion of a crossdresser (let alone the sight of one) will immediately remind you of your own unresolved issues and create that sense of discomfort.

Similarly, once you figure out what it is you find attractive, then neither will that cause you such consternation. I'd suggest trying to find a gender therapist who may be able to help you work through both of these topics.

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1 Reply
Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@melodeescarlet, really good point.  I agree and think I want to put more time into the self acknowledgement and acceptance before I dive in too fast, only to rebound (not that I wouldn't love to go crazy and buy a wig and skirt!). 

The nice thing that, since joining here, I'm starting to notice tiny changes in my self image.

The idea of a gender therapist is interesting.  Kinda scary, but also something I might think about.

Emma

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Posts: 3285
Hostess
(@ab123)
Illustrious Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Joined: 4 years ago

This is one of many confusions that we have when coming to terms with who we are. 

Looking at others who may appear as attractive women, are we meant to admire them as a male would or as a woman would? if you take away the male element then it is an admiration as to what they are wearing, presentation and so on and not those male urges which are very shallow, to put politely.

The attraction to ones self when dressed is another. Finding what you see as attractive is again based on your male side. You see that image and think it is attractive hence the feelings as to why you find it attractive which means attraction to a man which would repulse you if that isn't why you dress. Women who dress well is not for any other motive than feeling good about themselves and exude style and so it is for crossdressers.

You have to take away the male and understand how a woman looks at another woman. What do they see and, like seeing a very smart crossdresser it is as an example of how the person viewing would like to be, to emulate them or, to look at what they are wearing, where they purchased it from and to go out and buy it. 

Perhaps this is one of many reasons crossdressers purge because of these conflicts when it is an adjustment to suppress the male side and understand the female more.

It's a difficult question to answer and hope it has been expressed tactfully.

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1 Reply
Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@ab123 

Yes!!  This is what I was trying to say to @jjandme above but you've done it properly!

It also leaves me with a slightly chilling thought - what it must be like for a GG to want to express their femininity, then get undesirable attention from men, only to then be told "if you don't want that then don't dress like that".  How could I have not seen this until now?!

I had to look up the purging bit, but get it now.  The SO the kind of thing I would do.  Actually, I'm sure I've done it on a small scale before.

Emma

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Posts: 3861
Lady
(@harriette)
Illustrious Member     Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Joined: 2 years ago

There are a bunch of aspects to this.

When I search for crossdressing images, much of the results are x-rated. Not my thing. Some that I remember show things such as fully hairy legs under stockings. Not my thing, maybe there are reasons. I have my own issues with body hair (and I am still working on that myself), so I don't think that I am being too critical, of myself or others.

On the other hand I haven't spent much time on CDH looking at the fabulous images that members post here. With everything else going on at my end, I just don't have the time to scrutinize them all that often. I am amazed at how feminine especially some younger members can look. And older members have really surprised me, too. Truly astonishing skills developed over a lifetime of crossdressing.

Because of the way I dress, I also don't spend a lot of time in front of mirrors or taking pictures of myself. Since there isn't a lot of facial talent being developed at my end yet, there is not much to see here.

I am just being realistic and trying to be time efficient doing one step at a time dealing with things from the neck down, but my admiration goes out to all of you.

I hope that gives you a different perspective on being self-critical.

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2 Replies
Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@harriette yes, I agree that the more explicit images can muddy waters.  Not that I have anything against other people doing their thing, just that it can make it harder to find what I'm actually for - whatever that is!

Thanks for the balanced and honest voice.

Emma

P.S. I like what you've done with your profile pics.  Feels like something I might myself be able to achieve at some point. I'd definately need some serious growth/experience under my belt for anything more.

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Lady
(@harriette)
Joined: 2 years ago

Illustrious Member     Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3861

@emmajones Do little steps always with growth, experience and maturity in mind.

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Posts: 2081
 J J
Lady
(@jjandme)
Famed Member     California, United States of America
Joined: 5 years ago

We are all at different points on our CD journey and are ultimate distinatiins are not necessarily the same. The key is to accept yourself as you are at any given time. When I finanlly did that I have been at peace with myself in many ways, including the acceptance of how I look.

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1 Reply
Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@jjandme 

A simple truth, I agree.

Noticing and accepting.  Can be a challenge.  Definately worth more investment for me.  Now I've noticed a lot more, and found this forum, it will hopefully be easier.

Emma

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Posts: 1743
Baroness Annual
(@d44)
Famed Member     New York, United States of America
Joined: 5 years ago

Once you learn to be more comfortable with your own feminine image and your own feminine self, your thoughts about how others dress and appear will be less judgemental.

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1 Reply
Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@d44 

I had a real good pause to let this one sink it. 

Fortunately I think that work of getting more comfortable is going to be very enjoyable 🙂

Emma

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Posts: 109
Lady
(@carla66)
Estimable Member     Barcelona , Barcelona, Spain
Joined: 1 year ago

I have to admit that there is a before and after in me thanks to CDH. Seeing transvestites has never bothered me, then as I discovered myself I positively called all the transvestites.

But now I am more critical, just as critical as I would be with a woman. I don't judge, but there are styles now that I wouldn't wear.

And sometimes I dress up and pay more attention to my feminine virtues, and other times they don't appear as much. But I care less and less, what matters to me is that I am happier and happier when I dress as a woman. And I can do very little of that.

A big kiss to all.

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Posts: 143
(@fabulous1)
Reputable Member     Forest Hill, Maryland, United States of America
Joined: 7 months ago

I am worried about my response, so I am asking for forgiveness up front.  As I said in my profile, for whatever reason, I am compelled to wear women's clothing.  I do it for myself, in the privacy of my own home, never considering venturing out and about (sorry for the rerun but I don’t know who has and who has not seen my profile).  

I dress like a woman that would catch my male eye and, perhaps, any mans eye. I take photos of myself, not out of vanity, but so I can see what I need to do better next session (all of this is leading somewhere, I promise).

One crazy day, I got a wild idea.  Why not post one of my pics to CDH?  So, I did.  Penelope was born (confession, I never had a femme name before that.  Didn’t need one.  It was only me, my lingerie and feminine wardrobe).

What a surprise! CDHers liked Penelopes image.  Quite a lot, it seemed.  I was elated and felt over joyed. I felt happy because I was being accepted by a group of people like me. People that are exploring a part of their nature that happens to be taboo elsewherr.  People liking Penelopes image to celebrate that here was an image of a CDer that had been fairly (still a work in progress) successful at creating an somewhat attractive facade (please do not take this as lack of humility or boasting).  This was an audience of my people.  Importantly, I did not then believe, nor do I now believe, that this audience was a group of lustful CD admirers. I feel like I am in a family of lots of sisters where I can be my femme self, and its okay.  Some sisters will like me, others not. That’s the nature of a large family. When I look at pictures of other girls on CDH, I look through the eyes of a sister, offering praise when I wish, remaining silent other times. 

I did not know what to expect after Penelope came into being.  But I am growing and feeling more and more like a sister to all of you, nothing else.  Maybe that's Penelopes path, I don’t know.  I am enjoying the sisterhood, though.  I hope you all will allow me to ride along a while more.  Who knows what lies ahead and what does it matter as long as I can wear some of my favorite outfits and be accepted and surrounded by my sisters.

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3 Replies
Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@fabulous1 

I think you expressed yourself really well, and thank you for the perspective which I understand and relate to many elements of.

Importantly, I did not then believe, nor do I now believe, that this audience was a group of lustful CD admirers.

I think this illustrates the kind of confusion that I brought to my original post, which your and everyone's replies have helped so much with. 

My guess is we are driven to share images in serach of expression and a feeling of acceptance, and we look at other peoples photos to draw inspiration and give them a gift of validation.

Emma

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Baroness Annual
(@d44)
Joined: 5 years ago

Famed Member     New York, United States of America
Posts: 1743

@fabulous1 You're right Penelope, CDH is like a big family. I'm glad to see that you are enjoying it. I love it here.

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Ambassador
(@alexina)
Joined: 1 year ago

Famed Member     Fife, United Kingdom
Posts: 2016

@fabulous1 

Hey Penelope! 

I see nothing in your post that remotely requires forgiveness. I see open and honest sharing and concern for others. Exactly what I love about this community 😊.

 I hope you all will allow me to ride along a while more

I hope you will allow us to share your journey.

Allie x

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Posts: 2081
 J J
Lady
(@jjandme)
Famed Member     California, United States of America
Joined: 5 years ago

I think the secret to looking at pictures be it CD or not, intimate, or not is to not compare yourself to such images, but to be inspired to improve your look and attitude about yourself. Few of us will be Playboy models, but they can inspite us to try a little harder to step up our look. 

The same applies to just people watching out in public. Seeing an attractive, well dressed GG while nice to think we could emulate the look, the reality is unless you are that person the best we can do is be inspired by the look to change our look a bit along her lines.

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1 Reply
Lady
(@emmajones)
Joined: 6 months ago

Estimable Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Posts: 59

@jjandme, wise words, and I think they match very nicely with my growing appretiation of seeing how all sorts of different people express a feminine side. 

It's funny, how I'm looking at so many situations in different ways now.  Sometimes I think, I like some part of a girls look irrespective of whether shes GG or CD, sometimes I excitedly wonder if she might be a crosdresser. 

Emma

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Posts: 1197
(@rebeccabaxter)
    Cornwall, United Kingdom
Joined: 1 year ago

I'm not sure I've ever judged. Perhaps in the 70s, I was guilty of talking about trannies, poofters, shirt-lifters, weirdos, while at the same time lusting after lesbians and imagining threesomes with two women, but really, I'd like to think I've been fairly tolerant.

These days, I am extremely tolerant of the above groups. My own son is gay and lives with another man and I am a crossdresser who goes out and about in public.

I do look at other crossdressers and sometimes I think how good they look and other times I think, 'You really haven't tried,' but I no longer judge; what they do and how they do it is up to them, it's just not always to my taste.

I am happy with the way I look. When I first started my journey, my wife—perhaps rather cruelly, but truthfully—told me that whatever I did, I'd always look like a man in a dress. This hurt for a while, but both of us have changed. I have become more adept at being Becca and she has become less and less bothered by how other people might see me. Oh, and she no longer thinks I look like a man in a dress and has even said I look better than quite a few women; isn't she sweet.

After reading the OP, I watched the video of Savannah Hauk doing her TedX talk, and after initially seeing her as a man in a dress, it was only a very short time before I completely forgot that fact. I stopped noticing her voice was low, and indeed, it started to sound quite feminine as the talk went on, even though it had not changed. Her statements were true, inspiring, but in the end, perhaps largely fruitless. There will always be people out there who don't understand, refuse to even try. There will be 'real men' to whom everyone not god-fearing and butch, will be labelled with the titles I used to use:  trannies, poofters, shirt-lifters, weirdos.

In many places these days, there is more tolerance, to some extent because people are too wrapped up in their own lives to give two hoots about anyone else; whatever they wear or however they behave. In some places—and I can't imagine even visiting South Carolina, never mind living there, after Savanah's less-than-enthusiastic opinion of the place—crossdressers have little chance of acceptance; my own village is one of them. Strangely, they are quite accepting of gays and lesbians here for the most part. Indeed, when we first moved here 22 years ago, it almost seemed compulsory to be a lesbian, so many of them were there. A gay man ran the pub for a while without recrimination. Oh, I don't know, reading this back, perhaps there's hope here after all.

TBH, I forgot what my point was; perhaps I already made it. Heigh ho, onward and upward.

Becca

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