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This is a common lament of MtF crossdressers: why can't I wear women's clothes when women can wear men's clothing? Many CDH members ask about it and we try to answer or explain it away the best that we can from our perspectives.
Women can wear general male looking clothes partly because of women's rights movements, entertainers (Marlene Dietrich, Sarah Silverman), bicycles, and wars, so it even took them a while to get where they are today. Not without lots of resistance, mind you, from conservatives who, by their very nature, don't accept change.
Today, I heard an explanation on YouTube's oldest channel (also their oldest news channel) that was given to help put a news story into context. It was narrated by a relatively young male who had earlier discussed the story in a production meeting and a female co-worker gave him this as a reason:
The reason that it doesn't work the other way around "is that a man cannot wear women's clothes, for reasons that cannot be specifically articulated, because we don't want to reveal what we believe about women and the clothes that we want them to wear."
"Women's appearances and women's fashion are inherently sexualized and the clothing that is specific to women is that [I think that he meant to say "are what they are" here] because it has been pushed culturally to highlight secondary sexual characteristics of women."
Society says that if a man puts on a dress, then he must be thinking about sex, too. And we can't have that! There must also be something sexual about what clothes he is wearing.
Do you agree? Does this explain what we go through?
I have a few plain cotton dresses and denim skirts that are my farm work clothes. They certainly don't sexualise any fantasy as such. But they are very practical.
I don't really think about dressing up to "look sexy" and stuff like that, i just reaaaally love looking cute! besides i think some of the "sexy" stuff is kinda uncomfy, maybe i'm just not used to that stuff but yeah, i don't know about that theory... i still believe it has much more to do with the people that are terrified of change and all that
Well, the co-worker did say 'for reasons that couldn't be specifically articulated', and then didn't specifically articulate any actual reasons. So up to there it sounds to me like she's on solid ground...?
After that, as one might expect, the 'reasoning' as to why it 'doesnt work' presumes that every MtF crossdresser's image of women is inherently degrading. Why else would we not want to reveal what we believe about women, or what we believe about what they should wear? Meanwhile, Men, as a class, are not particularly reserved about acting or speaking on disempowering beliefs about who women should be or how they should appear--but no mention of that. And of course the same point about cultural influence, projection, and inherent sexualization in design could equally be said of 'mens' clothing.
It is interesting that the process of seeking a rationale always somehow seems to lead back into these phobic dead ends. It is because that process begins with the presumption that we owe an explanation, and others are entitled to one. So Yes, in that way, it does explain a lot of what we go through.
Crossdressers themselves have a difficult enough time explaining why we dress, so having non-crossdressers try to explain why seems like a mug's game.
Sounds like someone is overthinking things on this channel, which seems to be a thing these days in almost every aspect of life. I think that the real reasons are a bit more straightforward when you boil it down. Basically society is split into men & women & clothes are just a part of that split. Most of society is perfectly happy with that state of affairs & anyone who goes against the grain doesn't fit in & are therefore pushed to the margins. People (as a group) just don't like anything that rocks the boat. Also, in even more simplistic terms, women's clothes are cut to fit women's bodies, not men's so they look out of place. Last night I happened to see a picture of the actor John Cena wearing a mini skirt. It wasn't a good look!
Attitudes change over time & it feels to me like there are the beginnings of a shift going on right now. The fact that the debate is happening at all & opinions are getting so polarlsed is, strangely, something I find encouraging. Granted the debate is more about the transgender issue than crossdressing but it is all a part of the same topic My inner boffin thinks that the third law of thermodynamics is in play here, namely that all things go from hot to cold so heated debates inevitably cool down over time as a new equilibrium is reached. There is no guessing where the level will be but things generally move forward at this point, Will it move far enough? Only time will tell.
@harriette As with so many things, I feel the answer is multi-faceted.
Firstly, you have the generic issue of humans. While I believe humans tend to pride themselves on being quick to adapt, I feel the reality is quite the opposite. As I've noted in previous comments, in general people like things to remain the same. Living in a world that is very nearly the same as you grew up in - mostly being a time where you felt like, "OK...I got this" - is very comforting. Things make sense and you're relevant. When things start changing and middle aged (or more) people have to start adjusting, they start to feel adrift and disconnected. This is unfortunate, because the rate of change is happening ever faster. I try to keep my mind open to this as I reach my mid-50s. So, item 1 - humans are really averse to societal change.
Secondly, we have the specific issue of men presenting themselves in a feminine way. Naturally we look at the other side of the coin and say, "But women get to wear whatever they want!" And this is kind of true, but as some have noted, this was not some switch that was flipped. This was a battle women openly fought for, and some paid the price for that battle, and it still took the better part of a century. However, I feel there's more to it than that.
Women took men's attire (pants, suits, etc) and made them feminine. Most women don't just go buy men's clothes, they buy a women's version of "men's clothes". What we are talking about is not the same thing. Yes, of course there are unisex items - sweat pants, hoodies, etc. but those have grown to be just that - things we consider to be neither men's nor women's clothing. However, I do not wear some masculine or even neutral version of a dress. I am dressing to appear feminine. So this point of women wearing men's clothes is not exactly apples to apples, IMO.
Part 2a here is that, like it or not, the world is still a man's domain. Look at nearly every governing body or ruler in the world - men. And you all know from your years of 10 to probably 30, what is it that men go out of their way to take other men down a peg for? Being weak, and I would argue that weakness almost always takes the form of being gay or girly (because men 🙄 ). This is just how the male human animal operates in the world. Yes, it's all about insecurity and not wanting to be the omega wolf, as it were and it seems outdated and foolish, but it's also tens of thousands of years of evolution burned into our brains and as noted above, societal change - yeah, not our strong suit.
Which leads us to the real big final issue: the insecure men of the world cannot abide other men appearing as women for fear that they might find them attractive. "What if I find this person 'hot'? That makes me gay because it's a man!" - and being or appearing to be gay (weak) is to be avoided at all costs. Which is, of course, a bit foolish. If you're a man and you find a person that's presenting themselves in a very feminine way to be sexually attractive, that categorically identifies you as straight, but despite our name (homo sapiens = "wise man") I feel few of us stop to think the obvious next thought. And so these men seek to stomp out this thing that might cause them to have some deep, introspective review of themselves.
And so here we are. 🙂
What percentage of men are insecure?
All of them, naturally. Of course, the same goes for the women. To different degrees, to be sure, but insecurity is this sense is solely a human trait. "I'm worried about how others will perceive me and what that will mean for my future in the group/tribe."
Every group in this discussion:
- The CD/TG people are uncertain of how their appearance and/or change will be taken by the people they know as well as all the people they don't.
- The non-CD/TG people are uncertain on what the presence of the CD/TG people will affect them and what it may or may not make them have to reconsider about themselves.
Now, anyone who is...I'll say 'present' - meaning someone who's done some introspection before, someone who's had a few meaningful and honest conversations about themselves with themselves - will have a much easier time dealing with those insecurities. But, like all things this takes practice and many of us are too scared to have those conversations....because we're insecure. It's an ugly loop. 😉
Society says that if a man puts on a dress, then he must be thinking about sex, too.
That's just a way to say in polite company that it's a fetish. Even if some of us started off dressing because it was a fetish, very few people here will say they dress for sexual reasons.
Is every man who ties a towel around his waist when he comes out of the shower (i.e., makes the towel into a skirt) thinking about sex? How about wearing a bathrobe (wrap dress) or a kilt? Was Scrooge thinking about sex when he wore his "nightshirt" (nightgown)? How about boys who wear skirts to school to protest not being allowed to wear shorts in very hot weater? Or Friar Tuck (or anyone else who wears/wore a "robe" that is really a dress), or Roman chariot drivers, or ancient Egyptians? Everyone on the Flintstones? Does anyone remember Star Trek (The Original Series) episode "The Apple" where both men and women were wearing sarongs? Why can a guy wear a Hawaiian flowered shirt but other flowered shirts are women's wear only? During the 1600's and 1700's, men of nobility wore shirts with lacy plackets, and sometimes even trumpet sleeves.
What we're talking about is fashion and culture. The reason they can't articulate why it's wrong is because they're not used to seeing it, so when they do see it, it just "feels wrong" meaning it is different from what they expect. But when everyone was wearing dresses (be it robes or on the Flintstones), no one questions it.
If you want to wear women's clothes, go ahead and do so. You're going to get looks and questions from people, women will likely compliment you and men will likely shy away (search Mark Bryan in Germany). The only thing that is stopping you is your own fear of being perceived as an outsider.
Fear from outsiders is not what constrains my dressing. To me, I couldn't care less about them. It's my family that I have to consider first, too. It is what it is.
Walking past a bus stop, a few days ago, one bored woman standing there looked me from top to bottom finishing at my 2" heeled boots. People do notice. They may not say anything out loud, but you can hear the gears grinding in their heads.
Along with Friar Tuck, in your list, I would add Jesus and his buddies. Any picture that I ever saw of him has him in a robe.
Let's see, this is an interesting topic to discuss but as in all topics related to the human and social nature of humanity, there will never be a great explanation that satisfies all points of view and answers all the questions on the topic, that is why the only thing What I'm going to say is wearing a masculine suit will never be as intense as wearing a dress
I get the impression that the question is a general one and not directed to any specific group such as ours.
To me the fundamental point in Harriets post is an archaic attitude as said to me as a child, 'Boys don't wear girls clothes' and any query was met with,'because they can't'. The last bit is where it can't be specifically articulated. It's taboo, too complicated, Socially unacceptable,there are many reasons. In those days it was also seen as a perversion and had dark inferences. It just wasn't done by the ordinary folk in society and that is end of subject.
Could it be that the insecurity is about what others think about this, not what the individual thinks as the world they live in does not approve but actually they feel alone but many more actually think the way they do but there i stills that herd conformity. People love conformity and a norm so anything outside the norm is unsettling, therefore the herd is unsettled because this is not in the norm. If the herd attitude changes then they most go along as others are going with it. Sometimes the herd knows something they do not approve of is going on but so long as it doesn't affect them then it's akin to the DADT we see here.
We know as crossdressers it is perfectly okay to dress in womens clothes and crossdressers are better accepted, however there are those here who are concerned about what others will think, how it will effect their life but still not fundamentally wrong.
Time moves on as do attitudes as I can openly express myself now and be accepted, something I only dreamed of.
The herd is moving forward.
Hi Harriette,
I had to re-read your posting twice that got me thinking. Like others said, what a load of crock. If every piece of woman's clothing is to be deemed a sexualization attempt then does that mean GGs are only thinking about s*x when they are dressed in a way (with the exception of clubwear).
As to cross dressing, I can only say that it feels right and natural to be in femme wear. There's just something that just is not right about dressing in drab, lack of selection, style, color that restricts natural body movements that matches your inner spirit.
I've only had a few occasions where someone asked why I looked so tall, and I show them my ankle high boots with a 4" stiletto heel. Their response is usually "You look good" or "You're brave to wear that - Good for you." And they are sincere comments, no snickering, no embrassment. Just run of the mill CD to female conversation.
I've yet to hear anyone tell me that that's woman's clothes and is a sexual taboo no-no.
But if they did, I would say "...because they are mine" and "...I feel like it" smile with a wink and continue on my business picking out and trying out the female items that I like.
After all, they are my clothes and I'm wearing it as I like it. It maybe sexual to you, but not to me.
Summer
p.s. Good topic and responses BTW, Harriette!
I have not read all the response, but men can wear women's clothing and ut is proven here all the time. Now, if you want to discuss societies reaction to us, that is a dufferent matter.
People tend to think that what ever the masses do is the "norm" and thise that deviate from what rhe masses do are deviants. That is just mass think and has no basis in logic or reality. Throughout history there have always been, and there will always be, some peoole who chuck the norm and just do what they want. If enough peoole say screw it and dress, then that becomes the norm, or at least accepted.
This is where I get really confused. The line between sexuality and gender expression literally sit on top of each other. I feel sexy in a cute skirt, shouldn't I? Even when I walk past the mirror and don't like what I see it feels amazing and liberating. I still want to look good and be sexy. Is that a bad thing? I don't know exactly where I stand. So confused with where I am at.