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Ye Gods!

24 Posts
13 Users
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Posts: 804
Lady
Topic starter
(@sashabennett)
Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Joined: 1 year ago

I just watched a video on youtube called Queens at Heart (1967) from the UCLA film & television archive. It's almost unbelievable how attitudes have changed over the last 57 years.

I guess the interviewer on this would have probably been seen as forward thinking at the time, as he doesn't appear to be at all judgemental but the questions being put to the "contestants" are utterly outrageous by today's standards. It does make me grateful that I didn't have to deal with the 1967 view on trans / CD lifestyle & I have nothing but respect for those who fought through such times to make life easier for those of us who are living it today.

I can't say that this is an easy watch if I'm honest but having sat through it, it certainly makes me appreciate where we have got to currently. 

As a historical document I would recommend it but be prepared to be shocked!

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17 Replies
Managing Ambassador
(@ellyd22)
Joined: 2 years ago

Majestic Member     Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posts: 5217

@sashabennett 

Wow. I just watched this in its entirety. Thank you so much for posting it.

I absolutely agree that some of the questions posed by the interviewer were unnecessarily intrusive, and clearly made the interviewees uncomfortable. Simone gave as good as she got ... but poor Vicki 🙁

I got the  sense that Jay Martin was actually on their side and was trying to be as respectful as he could (within his limits). That said, some of his questions would be way off limits today. The whole thing is definitely a product of its time.

Just think how incredibly brave it was of those four girls to be filmed like this in 1967. I just wanted to give them all the biggest hug. I really hope that things worked out for them.

Ellie x

(PS. Comments on YouTube videos are always worth reading. One said 'OMG what these girls had to go through ... Holy Carp')

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Lady
(@sashabennett)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Posts: 804

@ellyd22 I did wonder how their lives worked out following this kind of exposure. I hope they managed to get the surgery's they wanted & all was rosy but I fear things were probably less so. It did strike me how they didn't quite seem to get what the surgery involved, not surprising really considering that information would have been in short supply back then. Kind of makes you realise how lucky we are with all the information available online these days.

Funnily enough I had previously watched another video on the life of Christine Jorgensen. It seems in only one decade the trans community went from celebrities to all but outcasts.

As for comments, they can be interesting but that one seems fishy to me 😆 

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Managing Ambassador
(@lizk)
Joined: 5 years ago

Illustrious Member     North County San Diego, California, United States of America
Posts: 3858

@sashabennett 

I haven't seen this...yet.  I can only imagine how much courage it took to be these women during those times. 

I don't think there was a major shift in attitudes until the late 90s - early 2000s.  Even then things were tough for girls like us. 

I had a bad experience in the early 2000s with some supposedly 'enlightened' people.  It drove me even deeper into my closet for another 15 years.

Deep respect for the women that came before us.  They made possible what we have today.

/LK

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Lady
(@sashabennett)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Posts: 804

@emilyalt So sorry to hear of your bad experience but your story say's to me that courage is still alive & kicking. Personally I can only admire that you have stuck to your guns & got where you are today. As things stand I'm happy with where I'm at, fortunately, as I doubt I would have the courage to go "all in" as it were.

Keep flying that flag

Sasha

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Managing Ambassador
(@lizk)
Joined: 5 years ago

Illustrious Member     North County San Diego, California, United States of America
Posts: 3858

@sashabennett 

courage + desperation = motivation

/LK

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(@dovemtn2016)
Joined: 1 year ago

Honorable Member     Tucson, Arizona, United States of America
Posts: 313

@sashabennett Sasha, I can't pass, but when I tell people I'm transgender, for the most part people are good to okay with it.

I'm still very cautious though.

 

 

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Lady
(@sashabennett)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Posts: 804

@dovemtn2016 I'm glad to hear you have mostly had a positive response. Things have definitely got better over the years but with the current backlash thanks to precious teens getting upset about misgendering (thanks for that tik tok) & heavy handed TV coverage like Dr Who I worry that we are going backwards a bit so I think a little caution is probably wise.

Sasha

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Guest
(@Anonymous 85825)
Joined: 2 years ago

Estimable Member
Posts: 107

@sashabennett 

I was a child in the 1960s, but knew that I had feelings of wanting to be a girl. They were my hidden secrets. I remember my parent's attitudes about things in the world. They certainly reflected the times. There was the occasional story in a newspaper or magazine about people who had a "sex change" as they called it back then. I always made sure that I read those stories and day dreamed that I could do that.

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Lady
(@harriet)
Joined: 4 years ago

Noble Member     Christchurch, Canterbury, New Zealand
Posts: 985

I was born in ‘56 and by ‘64 I knew in my heart I wanted to be a girl! Perhaps because I was brought up in an all female household?  My mother was a fashionista and a makeup passionista so all I wanted to was copy her… in fact she introduced me to the black art of makeup. Her advice to me at that young age was “never go out without lipstick”.

my grandmother was more prosaic “when you can, be girlie… when you can’t, develop being prosaic”

love Polly

 

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Lady
(@sashabennett)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Posts: 804

@harriet An interesting childhood, you must have some stories to tell.

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Lady
(@sashabennett)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Posts: 804

@autumngold A newspaper story was my first exposure to the whole topic. I can't say I ever dreamed I could do that back then but I was fascinated that such a thing was even possible. I guess the seed was sown then even though it took years to germinate....

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Duchess
(@alison-anderson)
Joined: 6 years ago

Noble Member     Middlesex county, New Jersey, United States of America
Posts: 1742

@sashabennett One takeaway from the film was that it was still illegal (this was 2 or so years before Stonewall, the beginning of LGBTQ rights). It helps put into perspective Casa Sussana, which was even before this time. Remember that when they took photos, they had to deliver the film to the local drug store (chemist) and wait days to get them back, where someone else had to look at the photos.

I agree the questions were very personal (is that your own hair or eyelashes)? You wouldn't ask a woman that question, but it was OK to ask them that question. You can see too why one of the first questions people ask a crossdresser is, "Are you gay?", the subject of two recent threads here.

It did bring back memories, when (at 20:30) they passed a Horn and Hardart. These were automats, a contactless restaurant sort of like a vending machine. The workers would put the food in slots, and you can see the food (sandwiches, deserts, etc.) through glass windowed doors. You would put the coins in the slot and then open the door and take out your plate of food. They were eventually replaced by fast food restaurants, although I think inflation had a part because you had to pay in coins, and there were no bill changer machines or credit card readers. When things started to get more than the coins you would carry, it just became inconvenient. (There was a worker to change bills into coins, but the if the number of coins needed was excessive, people would tend to shy away from it.) With today's technology, automats are making a little bit of a comeback.

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Lady
(@sashabennett)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Posts: 804

@alison-anderson Thanks for reminding me about Casa Susanna, I'd been meaning to watch it earlier but forgot what it was called. That's tonight's viewing sorted. The Queens was definitely a product of it's time & thankfully most of those questions will receive the contempt they deserve these days. As for the food vendors, that's not something that made it to this side of the pond as far as I know, to be honest I thought they were a purely Japanese phenomenon. Funny how things take you to unexpected places isn't it.

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(@hottestwitch)
Joined: 3 years ago

    Leicester, Leicestershire, United Kingdom
Posts: 614

@sashabennett I'm not sure how to (I'm not digital girl!) but I'll see if I can find out how to look at this one.  I vaguely remember 1967 - I was just beginnning to question why there was that lump in my underwear and what I may think the alternative was.  Thanks for lettin us all know - I'm sure this will provoke a good long debatr!  Holly XXX

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Lady
(@sashabennett)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Posts: 804

@hottestwitch It's pretty straightforward to find. Open youtube on something & type queens at heart into the search bar. It should be the first thing that comes up. I was only 5 in 1967 so this would have meant nothing at the time. To be honest I can barely remember last week never mind 1967 🤣

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Baroness
(@river)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     New Hampshire, United States of America
Posts: 827

@sashabennett Alot of posts on this similar topic lately.  Growing up in the 70s the only information we got was school street and parents.  all of which had it wrong.  it was terrifying knowing I was CD and knowing the impression of it with just about everyone.  I would even expect going thru the card catalog in the library would have also been no help back then 🙂  The word Ignorant is usually used as an intended insult, and for a good reason,  but when Ignorance was not a choice I feel bad for the individual as some can have so much hate in their soul and not even know why. Saddens me. Thanks for the topic. Cheers RC

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Lady
(@sashabennett)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Posts: 804

@river In my case the only information I got was a story of one woman's transition in a local paper. School & street didn't do different & parents had a pretty victorian attitude so no help there. To be fair that was pretty normal for the time so I can't be too upset about it, I'm just glad that things have moved on somewhat. Admittedly there is still a way to go but there is always hope.

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Posts: 3439
Hostess
(@ab123)
Illustrious Member     Surrey, United Kingdom
Joined: 5 years ago

I have seen that and it has to be seen in context of the times. At least it was aired.

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Posts: 63
Duchess
(@hueych53ch46)
Trusted Member     Beach park, Illinois, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

I just watch it all of them were passable women 

Yes calling them homosexual but that was term in the 1960 

I found it instresting 

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Posts: 1209
(@lauren114)
Noble Member     Delaware, United States of America
Joined: 2 years ago

There's a lot going on there.  The biggest takeaway for me is how gender, sexuality and gentelia were all conflated giving transgender an extremely narrow definition.  It made me sad to see them say that they wouldn't really be women until they got SRS.  They were all passable and attractive by the standards of that time regardless of whether they had surgery or not. Sadly, a lot of the undercurrents visible here are still carried over and are a big part of the prejudice against people like us.

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Lady
(@sashabennett)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Posts: 804

@lauren114 People do love to label, especially when something is new (as it certainly was back then) Definitions are now so broad that they have essentially become worthless. Progress? you decide. I would say that they were all attractive by any standards, regardless of time & I would love to be that passable but as for the SRS question, I would agree with them. Don't be sad about it, that's just my opinion & that's how I feel too. If I look in the mirror I don't see a woman looking back at me no matter how I feel inside but hey, them's the breaks.

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Posts: 1460
(@debbiedd)
Noble Member     los angeles, California, United States of America
Joined: 5 years ago

We have come a long way baby. These girls are the bravest people amongst us.

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Lady
(@sashabennett)
Joined: 1 year ago

Noble Member     Wick, Caithness, United Kingdom
Posts: 804

@debbiedd Amen to that

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