- This topic has 15 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 4 weeks ago by Anonymous.
- October 21, 2020 at 10:15 pm #397380Mary JaneParticipantRegistered On: September 30, 2020Topics: 5Replies: 57Has thanked: 118 timesBeen thanked: 258 times
I was thinking through why it is the Cdresser doesn’t fit into society, as well as the rest of the LGBT community does.
I believe its because society, including the LGBT community needs labels. If you think we don’t need labels, shop at a grocery store and stock up on tinned food that has had the labels taken off. Or go shopping for shoes and clothing that have no labels… imagine how confusing it would be.
Society is becoming more accepting of two blokes, or women liking each other… they clearly are still men or women in their identity.
They can handle bi, though I gotta admit, that confuses me a bit. But they still (for the most part ) identify as male or female
Transgenders, society can handle, because the person believes they are the opposite sex, born in the wrong body and live that way.
Now we come to Cdressers. Blokes, who identify as blokes, who don’t want to be women, but like to dress and act as a woman. Or a woman, who wants to dress as a man.
It doesn’t take long to find out that the majority of cdressers are pretty messed up and confused about why we do what we do… and if we are confused about it, we just gotta expect society and everyone else to be confused about it.
In other words, this confusion is incredibly logical.
After having read many of the forums, and posts about coming out to our special other – one of the major issues I have observed is the one coming out, is often still very confused themselves.
If we are confused about ourselves, we gotta expect it to be confusing to our SO.
Sometimes I wonder if the blurting out in confession is driven by needing to get something off your chest, and its a huge dump onto the other.
We feel good having had our vent, and kinda wonder why everyone else is dazed, angry, confused, grieving even.
I don’t know what the answers are. I don’t know how to get around this. But I do know we have to reflect honestly, and deeply, and not be frightened of asking the deeper questions, acknowledging the sociological implications, and issues – and not just give glib answers like we are prone to do.
Anyways, these were my thoughts for the day. What’s your thoughts?
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- October 25, 2020 at 5:26 am #398368AnonymousInactiveRegistered On:Topics: 0Replies: 38Has thanked: 26 timesBeen thanked: 211 times
Firstly I have to say the last thing we need is more labels the LGBTQ sign writing comity just won’t stand for it dam it lol
Now on to the idea were not accepted because not even we no why we do this. Ok no no no no no, litrany the same can be said for gay men and women growing up, but there have been and are differences. when being gay was taboo and in some cases illegal the struggles of someone accepting they were gay was immense, did they understand why they were gay? no did they give a rats ass what category they were put in what label they were given or what letter of the LGBTQ sign reprosents them? hell no. But society shund them they went underground they married woman to appear normal they hid who they were from the world cose the world didn’t want them. All this whilst they had no clue of why they wanted do do something that wasn’t accepted.
We are different for some pretty clear but hidden reasons in accepting ourselves and being accepted for who we are and this is the fact we go back and forth from fem to male mode.
OK so this means we get the best of both YAY only no not YAY you see this gives us our male state the one who want the wife and kids and longs for them, then we let the female side in we enjoy every second of it then its over the male side kicks in, he feels his female side will stop him from getting or lose the wife and kids he wants, so hides and sometimes despises the female side until he dresses again and the cycle starts again.
Our male side is the side that lives in most cases we have work friends and family, all at risk of our Female side being discovered and when this day comes, the idea of pointing to the alphabet and saying there that letter right there thats what i am makes no difference.
Now being gay is accepted the generation growing up now being themselves realising and coming out is more of a blip in there lives and we accept them for who they are without reason question or label, and the reason for this is acceptance by others allows them to be who they are.
Unfortunately we go through life on a rollercoaster, up and down right and wrong joy and shame round and round we go, hiding who we are from fear of rejection from the people we have hidden this dark seacret from, years go by the hiding gets harder the want gets grater, we seek comfort in others we look for reasons and answers that aren’t there but over time hopefully we start to accept who we are, we look at the ride we have been on the loops the turns the near misses and see nothing has really changed the feeling when changing back to male mode gets less fearful of how you will feel as you start feeling les guilt and confused.
So if we were accepted in society and there was nothing wrong with little boys wearing dresses as and when they wanted, without being labeled gay, bi ,trans which he isn’t and just let him find his own place and not feel the need to put in a nice little box, then and only then will we feel we are allowed to be who we are in our lives.
So it’s not us old farts that will benefit from this but the young we have already had the damage from unacceptance.
But who do we really want to accept us? most of us on a whole want a happy life with an accepting wife, Lets face facts there is really nothing stopping us dressing up and going down the shops apart from our inbuilt guilt that we are doing something wrong, when you do go out most of the time you will see its really only YOU that has the hang up over it, And your biggest worry is not what’s out there but more your partner accepting who you are.
This is the big difference between us and gay men, A gay man goes and finds another gay man who accepts him as he is also a gay man and all are happy.
A crossdresser seeking a female finds a female seeking a man, Of whom I in 10 if your lucky will be accepting of this in a long term relationship, and 1 in 100 mabie will be a very happy camper to find you want to play dress up – rugh figures not researched.
Then there’s the damage we ourselves do, or if not us past crossdressers and present, The idea some have there need to be loved and seek sex with accepting partners, dogging gay bars hotel meets are some of the worst things you can do whilst with a partner, tho secretly dressing hiding your internet history secret shop purchases hiding clothes and heelings, and wanting that couple of hours away from your wife to anyone outside of our own community will be dishonest and creepy.
once again these are my thoughts observations of others that dress and my own experiences through life and not text book and medical journals.
- October 24, 2020 at 11:47 am #398108DeeAnn HopingsParticipantRegistered On: November 10, 2019Topics: 11Replies: 671Has thanked: 9 timesBeen thanked: 1650 times
To me, the response is quite straightforward. For the most part, gay men and lesbians don’t look much different from their straight counterparts. For us, we have crossed the gender boundary and we are different from what we were. Just by observation, you may or may not be able to tell where things sit for us. I view all of us, including crossdressers, under the transgender umbrella. However it plays out, we gladly cross that boundary and we express our innermost being. For crossdressers it is a back and forth journey. For others it is largely one direction.
If we think of how we go about choosing potential romantic partners, for straight people and gay people, the first consideration is the sex of the potential partner. Everything else comes after that. For bisexual people, the sex of the potential partner is maybe 3rd or 4th on the list. From a woman’s standpoint, for example, in a dimly lit room, next to another warm and sensuous human, it may not make much difference who is rubbing gently on your boobs (or other interesting places). For some, it just doesn’t matter…
- October 24, 2020 at 5:17 am #398021MaeParticipantRegistered On: January 14, 2019Topics: 6Replies: 215Has thanked: 146 timesBeen thanked: 407 times
Sally Drinkwater; I think that might be the clearest, most honest answer, “I Crossdress because I enjoy it” The rest remains a mystery to me. “how come I became a Crossdresser so late in life” – “Why didn’t I start in my 20’s instead of my 60’s”
- October 24, 2020 at 4:27 am #397998Patty PhoseParticipantRegistered On: May 7, 2016Topics: 0Replies: 1402Has thanked: 995 timesBeen thanked: 3356 times
All I know is I love being a CD. I love the wonderful clothes and how I look and feel when wearing them. I introduced my wife to Patty a couple of weeks after we met. We became good girl friends and still are, so telling the wife and dealing with the aftermath has not been a problem for me.
I’ve been out as Patty many times over the years. Most of the time it’s some driving around, a few stops to walk around or do a few brief errands. I often find it scary but very exciting and a lot of fun. I can’t wait to do it again, fear and all.
I have also been out dressed in the real world. Been shopping at malls and stores, gone to restaurants, movies, pretty much everywhere. Scary? Yes very. Exciting? OMG like nothing else. Been to numerous parties, meetings and makeover sessions. Often scared nearly to death but such an incredible experience.
How come CD’s are not accepted? I don’t know if they are or aren’t. Depends on the person I think. I also believe many CD’s want to dress and go out but they have this thought in their mind about CD’s not being accepted. That is how they rationalize their not going out. I have had and still have those fears and many others. Still when my desire gets so strong, I carry those fears and thoughts with me and do it anyway.
Everyone who really wants to go out can get to that point eventually. Be careful where you go and who you are around. Believe it or not, public places where there is a lot of people around are probably the safest.
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- October 24, 2020 at 4:17 am #397996
- October 24, 2020 at 2:36 am #397978Sally DrinkwaterParticipantRegistered On: July 15, 2019Topics: 15Replies: 227Has thanked: 47 timesBeen thanked: 760 times
Where do casual crossdressers who dress for the sheer enjoyment of becoming a temporary lady for the day fit into your sexual alphabet?
Does there have to be an alterior motive to my guilty pleasure other than I really like doing it?
- October 23, 2020 at 7:54 pm #397926Rei DurdenParticipantRegistered On: October 11, 2020Topics: 14Replies: 462Has thanked: 2890 timesBeen thanked: 1690 times
Since acknowledging Rei, I’ve definitely been doing some digging into my past decisions and motivations, trying to wrap my head around the whole CD-ing.
You raised many interesting points, and I wish I could answer many of them clearly to myself.
One thing I really wanted to ask right now though is if the comparison of people (conscious sentient beings) to cans and boxes of inanimate objects on a shelf was the best example of the need for labels?
I do apologize if these comes across sarcastic , I just figured maybe I was missing the point?
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- October 23, 2020 at 1:12 pm #397836Mary JaneParticipantRegistered On: September 30, 2020Topics: 5Replies: 57Has thanked: 118 timesBeen thanked: 258 times
I like what you said about finding “meaningful” language and terminology.
- October 23, 2020 at 3:31 pm #397854Araminta PurdyParticipantRegistered On: January 23, 2020Topics: 1Replies: 179Has thanked: 220 timesBeen thanked: 544 times
One thing I find distressing is that when I complain about ‘buzz words’ created without thought by persons without understanding I am concerned that people might take offence. I do understand that, first of all, the reticence to openly discuss and learn about anything that might be thought to be sexual has caused genuine harm. For example, women have long feared (for many, valid reasons) to tell their stories abut child molestation by males they are supposed to trust, rape by persons in authority and simply general minimal access to basic dignity and respect. For me, this meant that I was not aware of the extent and massive proliferation of rape culture within our supposedly enlightened culture. I am quite ashamed of my ignorance in spite of the obvious signs and evidence of the past 60-years.
When I state that someone is using language inaccurately or inappropriately I am not stating that they are stupid, at fault or evil. I am saying that we have all been mislead due to the massive and long-standing policy of prudishly keeping people ignorant.
Often, some terms mean one thing for one person and another thing for other people. This is confusing. Sometimes a term that once meant something comes to mean sometime diametrically opposite to what it originally meant. Sometimes a term is simply meaningless or erroneously applied.
So, when people use language that is misleading, even harmful, how can I respect their opinion? (This is predominately directed to English-speaking peoples as modern concepts concerning sex and gender were evolved in English although the Germans initiated the field of study.)
To repeat. The use of ‘gender’ (all three, maybe four of them; debatable) to mean ‘sex’ (only two) is misleading as it rests on the presumption that sex and gender are equivalents and this leads to the false conclusion that if one is male then one must be masculine or something is wrong. In other words, the misuse of ‘gender’ is so widespread that it gives credence to the biased opinions of some really nasty, hateful people. However, if you make a strict distinction between sex and gender you can focus a spotlight on why the bigoted are wrong.
Also, the reason I ascribe importance to Bem’s work is that she reintroduced the fact that gender is not a spectrum with masculinity at one extreme and femininity at the other but gender is a mosaic or field in which one can display traits generally thought to be one or the other without contradiction, but more importantly, one is not pin-pointed in the field but capable of varying one’s placement and, for some people, presently radically different presentations at different times. Referring to gender as a spectrum indicates a lack of understanding of what ‘spectrum’ means and what ‘gender’ is. But someone borrowed the word, ‘spectrum’ inaccurately (being a social scientist and not a physicist or mathematician) creating a ‘buzz word’ that inaccurately surmises that femininity and masculinity are numerical variations of the same thing. ‘Spectrum’, applied to gender, is not meaningful, it is misleading and again promotes the notion that genders (and the sexes) are opposites and in conflict. Two sexes and three (maybe four) genders do not make a spectrum. A spectrum is a continuous range of infinite variety of the same thing (electro-magnetic energy, for example, or, colloquially, political beliefs).
Fundamentally the concept of gender in the human sense developed about roughly 120-years ago and was subjected to the prejudices, ignorance and social values of the time. There was some real development beginning roughly about 1965 with a lot of really flakey ideas presented or a few useful ideas morphed into something unreasonable and contradictory. The real explosion has been in the last 20-25-years.
Google has a site that traces the frequency of words in the English language in literature, studies, theses and other written works from 1800 to 2019. In 1965 the frequency of ‘gender’ was 0.0001060628%. Then it rocketed to 2004 (0.0049126478% or a 4600% increase), dropped a bit from 2004-2011 and in 2019 was 0.0053430063% (5000%). In other words, for the most part, ‘gender’ from 1800 to 1965 was essentially a grammatical term and used to mean ‘sex’ only in the most loose fashion by the insensitive. In 1965 it was adopted to distinguish behaviour from physiology and to indicate that such a distinction was not abnormal. Very soon it was transformed into exactly the opposite of its intended (and useful) usage by some very questionable studies and by media policies (which are, in themselves, simply a reimposition of the prudishness that existed before 1965.)
So when I wrote the preceding I expected a lot of condemnation of the, “How dare you….!”, variety. So that you like that I feel that language should be meaningful (and I should add, accurate) is praise indeed.
- This reply was modified 1 month ago by Araminta Purdy.
- October 22, 2020 at 8:05 pm #397627ParticipantRegistered On: January 23, 2020Topics: 1Replies: 179Has thanked: 220 timesBeen thanked: 544 times
Let’s see if I can express this notion. It is a bit tricky.
Outside of the bad reputation that cross-dressing has, outside of the fact that so many people are simply filled with erroneous concepts and incorrect premises and out side of the fact that some people base their hatred on so-called morality …
People are generally used to males being, for the most part, masculine and females being feminine. They kind of have a habit of insisting on it. Also generally, the concept that a male could be feminine and be ‘normal’ is actively opposed by education, social values, legislation (i.e., the ‘masquerade’ laws) and rather deleterious humour on television or in movies. The idea that a male can, in fact, be as much of a woman as a female escapes them.
So, when such a person sees someone who is identifiably male presenting as wholly feminine, they do not know how to react. Do they use feminine terminology (as in ‘she’, ‘ma’am’) or masculine terminology (‘he’, ‘sir’)? If they are male, and they find the feminine male attractive does that mean they are ‘homosexual’? Is this person a crazy person who might cause harm? Now, they may not actually consciously think these things but these and similar questions arise.
As a result, they feel uncomfortable. They do not want to be rude or misunderstood but they have neither the necessary knowledge or terminology to adequately interact with the cross-dresser or to address their own questions. (‘Gender’ is, originally, a method of categorization of words and defining their usage. Those fluent in the Romance languages will be more aware of this than those solely familiar with English.) Essentially they are ignorant. Not their fault.
Added to resenting being put in an uncomfortable situation where they feel stupid or incompetent, ignorance is the basis of fear and fear creates dislike (i.e., hate) and hatred engenders anger and anger reacts with violence either verbal or behavioural. The most obvious case is where someone is attracted to a pretty lady, finds out that they are male and feel cheated, ‘trapped’, lied to and made a fool of. They feel the sudden need to establish their ‘maleness’ with violence.
The concepts of gender as a form of human behaviour is actually relatively new and the kinks are still being worked out of those concepts. Granted gender-variant behaviour has been around forever but it was always set aside as (at best) an unfortunate abberation. The idea that it may actually reflect a legitimate and valid reflection of one’s personality, character and self image is one still percolating through the social consciousness.
This means that, in order to facilitate the ‘normalization’ of gender variance we need to do several things:
When we are in public we represent not just ourselves but other cross-dressers and other cross-dressers will be judged by our behaviour.
Sometimes patience is necessary and we need to put those who are uneasy at ease as best we can and try to give them an honest perspective.
In order to teach others we first have to understand ourselves, what we do and why we do it.
We need to find meaningful (rather than inaccurate and misleading) language in which the terminology is clearly understood and defined. Through clear language we can express the concepts we wish to convey.
Laura’s right. There is a complete lack of understanding. Not only generally but amongst many who are supposedly educated in these matters but who simply regurgitate fallacious conclusions arrived at in the early stages of the consideration of gender as human behaviour. Those who least understand these issues are often the most vociferous, self-proclaimed ‘experts’ and get the most attention. Bianca is right about the doubts and concerns of wives. (Very perceptive, by the way.)
To me, the question is not why a male wants to be feminine, beautiful even sexually attractive but the question is why anyone would want to do these things. I feel that the reasons for doing these things, if not precisely the same for both sexes, are very similar. And, no, I am not, “… surprised at the animosity that remains in some sectors of society, and complete lack of understanding of the difference between biological sex and gender.” I see it daily and most frustratingly often amongst cross-dressers. Especially on television (i.e., news programmes or discussion panels) where ‘gender’ is used to mean ‘sex’ because some executive decided that ‘sex’ was a dirty word and ‘gender’ was ‘politically correct’. (A total misunderstanding of the Second Wave Feminist observation that sex-discrimination was a gender-based issue in that femininity was deemed inferior to masculinity.)
For example, people saying they wear ‘female’ clothing. Clothing is inanimate, does not propagate, nor does it need to. Clothing has no sex, is neither male nor female, but clothing can have and often does have gender and can be masculine, feminine or neutral. To say that one wears ‘female’ clothing is to perpetuate the myth that females only properly wear feminine clothing. It is such myths that need to be contradicted. This is one reason why I distinguish between being a ‘female’ (sex) and a ‘woman’ (gender). Generally:
Gender and sex are not the same.
Gender is what you do.
Sex is what you are.
But it is getting better. We simply have to be aware of the social dynamics involved and gradually alter the parameters of those dynamics to a rational consensus. (Does that sentence even make sense?)
- October 22, 2020 at 7:03 pm #397619
- October 22, 2020 at 1:41 am #397392Bianca EverdeneParticipantRegistered On: April 11, 2017Topics: 16Replies: 567Has thanked: 2003 timesBeen thanked: 1993 times
Hi Mary Jane
You asked for thoughts.
I know this issue is the cause of angst and sadness among so many of us.
As those of you who have been in long term relationships know, compromise is the name of the game. It is rare for two people to be so perfectly synchronised that there is no friction in the relationship. As we grow together we learn to live with our partner, balancing the benefits against the things we have to put up with, whether it be snoring, bad habits, untidiness etc.
Most here have hidden, suppressed our femininity to attract and keep a partner. To then drop that bombshell into the middle of an established relationship can cause major damage.
Negative thoughts and doubts then ensue in partners minds.
Is he gay?
Does he want to be a woman?
I am not a lesbian, how can I find him attractive now?
All this time he has deceived me!!!Is our relationship based on lies?
Sometimes it’s over immediately, sometimes the partner embraces it, but most of the time things seem to settle into an uneasy truce, a compromise. A ‘do it if you must attitude, but I don’t want to see it or be part of it’ attitude.
So do we continue to be who we are supposed to be, struggling mentally at having to hide this wonderful part of us, or be who we are truly, and risk losing a partner, with all the anguish that entails.
Either way we have to deal with the consequences, often causing stress, unhappiness, mental health problems due to this awful choice.
- October 22, 2020 at 7:02 pm #397618
- October 22, 2020 at 12:36 am #397388Laura LovettParticipantRegistered On: March 26, 2020Topics: 8Replies: 412Has thanked: 1151 timesBeen thanked: 1973 times
You might be surprised at the animosity that remains in some sectors of society, and complete lack of understanding of the difference between biological sex and gender.
There are homophobes and transphobes – people who genuinely believe that gender and sex are no different – and binary only – and that people who actually get the difference and understand that gender is just a construct are somehow poisoning society.
It seems incredible, but I see this kind of small minded, ignorant hatred quite a lot online.
In the real world, I haven’t encountered much at all – it’s been the opposite experience.
Everywhere I’ve been, strangers have approached me to say something nice about my appearance, and to let me know they understand and even admire what I’m doing. Most have questions along the lines of why do I dress this way – and everyone seems happy with whatever answer I have at the time: I have so many reasons that I always try to reduce my answers to something easily relatable and digestible, like “It was all I could find to wear this morning”, or “Well, I didn’t want to wear the skirt and top” – or even “I don’t know – why are you wearing that today?”.
The levels of outward acceptance are, from my experiences at least, well and truly on the rise for cross dressers.
Believe it, embrace it, live it.
But be sensible, girls!
- October 21, 2020 at 10:31 pm #397381Davina LustParticipantRegistered On: October 22, 2020Topics: 0Replies: 1Has thanked: 0 timesBeen thanked: 5 times
I became aware of my feminine side at 13. I became so sexually stimulated putting on lipstick and mascara. I liked being a man, but I loved to imagine how it felt to be a woman. However, sociatal pressure scared me from coming out.
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