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    • #411589
      Lexie Trask
      Princess
      Registered On: August 9, 2020
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      My point exactly.

      That is why I selected to close this topic.

      I apologize for having violated the rules, and will no longer discuss issues that I may be having that have any basis in politics, religion, and or sex.

      please accept my deepest apology.

       

    • #411517
      Lexie Trask
      Princess
      Registered On: August 9, 2020
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      Actually ladies, there’s not really supposed to be discussion of religion, politics or sex on this forum…

      I was unaware of these rules. This will severely limit the types of discussions I can put here.

      since the issues that I have are based on religious beliefs, I won’t be discussing issues between my wife and I here.

      thank you for alerting me to the rules.

    • #411447
      Rayna (was Dala) Carlian
      Duchess
      Registered On: March 4, 2020
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      Do you think that was Just her “lashing out” to hurt you? Or does she really feel that way?
      I could understand if my spouse did something like that after a few drinks if I had really ticked her off.
      But if your wife really feels that way, I think it’s time that you two sit down with a pro and have some serious heart to heart talks. But, hell, what do I know…
      Hoping that you’re doing ok.
      Hugs,
      Dala

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    • #411444
      Bobbi
      Lady
      Registered On: September 13, 2018
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      OMG!  That is such Bullsh*t!   Why do people get butthurt when they see a man in a dress??!!
      Nobody bats an eye, if a GG wears blue jeans or leather pants or a leather jacket!
      Everybody should wear whatever the f*ck they want.
      (That’s all I have to say about that).

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    • #411352
      Lexie Trask
      Princess
      Registered On: August 9, 2020
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      There’s no need to be like that Lexie, I’m certainly not telling you or anyone else what to do, just telling it like it is. I’m sorry if I offended you.

      Dear Cindy,

      Please forgive my wording. I am not offended in any way! Truth be told, I love that all the girls here are willing to speak their mind.
      I appreciate it more than words can express how grateful I am to be part of this wonderful community!

      Please, never hold back. Sometimes I feel I step in it when I mention religion. I understand that not everyone has the same beliefs as I do. I want to thank you so very much for being YOU! Never stop being yourself.

      With all my love,

      Lexie

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    • #411306
      Lexie Trask
      Princess
      Registered On: August 9, 2020
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      I wish to thank all those that have provided not only their support, but also their advice.

      I have started therapy for my anger issues, although I also will be discussing my cross dressing in relation to my anger issues.

      I have found that when I present as Lexie, I’m much happier, calmer, as well as easier to be around.

      I do not know where my marriage will end up, but I am going to do everything in my power to keep my wife. I am more in love with her now than when we first got married. The biggest hurdle we face right now is discussing, in a calm and meaningful way, how we can both accommodate my need to be Lexie.

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    • #411277
      Mona
      Duchess
      Registered On: December 18, 2018
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      Absolutely agree that any wife is completely wrong to feel hurt to find out that their husband enjoys dressing up.

      There is absolutely no harm, but in the so-called societal norms.

      Where is the harm in dressing up?

      Actors do it all the time.

      Now if you found out your husband was a secret murderer then you’d be right to be furious.

      Please have some perspective.

      To say that men can’t wear women’s clothing is as bad as saying women should not wear trousers and stick to the washing, ironing and feeding – it’s blatant sexism and bigotry.

      Please understand what bigotry means, as some people use the word like an insult – I have no intention of being insulting, only of stating facts.

      Love Laura.

      Laura,

      I respectively disagree.  I believe a wife has the right to feel hurt when she discovers that her husband has been hiding his dressing from her.  I agree that dressing in and of itself is not necessarily harmful, it is the betrayal of trust that can be and often is hurtful to our SOs, whether we want to acknowledge or not.

      Imagine if you accidentally learned that your SO had been secretly posting videos of herself on porn websites for years.  Harmless to her and therefore no reason to judge if that’s what she’s into.  But tell me you would not feel the least bit betrayed or hurt?  Maybe not the best analogy but hopefully you see the point I am trying to make.

      You also make the point that it should be acceptable for men to wear women’s clothing because women routinely wear men’s clothing.  To me, this is the “it’s just clothes” line of reasoning that I believe does not hold up very well to close scrutiny.  For women, it is indeed “just clothes” but it pretty much ends there: a woman in trousers is still recognizable as a woman.  Not so for most cross dressers – we strive for a complete transformation that goes well beyond the clothes.  For many of us, the goal is to pass as a woman, and clothing is just one small part of it.

      Please understand I’m not looking to start an argument or debate…just giving my opinion and fully recognize and appreciate that your views are different.  Differences of opinion are valuable as they can help us see things from perspectives other than our own.  And that is a major reason why I enjoy being a member of the CDH community.

      Hugs,

      Mona

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      • #411497
        Anonymous
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        Good & valid view Mona 🌹

      • #411324
        Laura Lovett
        Lady
        Registered On: March 26, 2020
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        Well I’ll keep it short:

        There is no betrayal of trust. What trust has been betrayed? That he will not wear unprescribed clothing?

        Posting on porn sites is not the same as dressing up.

        A man in a dress is still recognizably a man. I know I am.

        That covers the main points you disagree with – I tried to stick to facts rather than argue unnecessarily!

        Love Laura

        • #411496
          Anonymous
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          Laura , I don’t think Mona was arguing , just presenting a different perspective ….of which she’s entitled to do so .

    • #410910
      Lexie Trask
      Princess
      Registered On: August 9, 2020
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      No worries Leslie, its just when religion is brought into the subject things get sensitive. That’s why I believe politics and religion don’t have much place here in these civil supportive discussions.

      I will remember to not talk about politics or religion.
      are there any other areas that I should avoid?

      • #411337
        Cindy Lou
        Baroness - Annual
        Registered On: November 18, 2020
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        There’s no need to be like that Lexie, I’m certainly not telling you or anyone else what to do, just telling it like it is. I’m sorry if I offended you.

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        • #411500
          Sa•man•tha
          Managing Ambassador
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          Actually ladies, there’s not really supposed to be discussion of religion, politics or sex on this forum…

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          • #411584
            Cindy Lou
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            My point exactly.

    • #410284
      Bobbi Sue
      Registered On: September 15, 2020
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      Lexie

      First off – deviant you are NOT!! Try and wash that from your thoughts, I know thats tough to do.

      I can speak from a very similar experience with my ex-wife.

      Whoever the person your committed to, in your case your wife, starts taking your vulnerabilities like cross dressing and turns them into a weapon to stab and hurt you…mmmm…its not a good sign to say the least.

      My EX-wife did it to me.  At that moment, our relationship was over because by weaponizing my dressing, she intentionally hurt me.  Also by doing that, she betrayed my trust.  Once trust is broken like that, its very hard to come back from.

      Good luck to you, stand tall and strong

      xo – Robyn

      Well said.  Another golden nugget

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      • #411285
        Robyn Devine
        Duchess
        Registered On: October 24, 2020
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        Thank you Bobbi Sue!

        Robyn 🤗❤️

    • #410232
      Sarah Du Hessisse
      Lady
      Registered On: September 16, 2020
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      Lexie there are  two people in a marriage give and take makes it work,  there are too many people in this world who want to put a labels on what they don’t understand. Your not a labelled item or something that belongs in the corner. Your a person with feelings, our feelings differ from others, keep working at your marriage let her know your feelings.

      Best Wishes Sarah

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    • #410187
      Mona
      Duchess
      Registered On: December 18, 2018
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      Lots of talk about doubt and shame.  I just published an article here at CDH that describes my own, somewhat similar struggles.  It’s in the Hodge Podge section so it’s gotten a bit lost in the shuffle, but here’s the link in case you want to read it:

      https://www.crossdresserheaven.com/my-season-of-doubt-and-shame-part-1/

      Hugs,

      Mona

       

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    • #410137
      Caroline OBrien
      Lady
      Registered On: April 18, 2020
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      The bible is full of scriptures which comfort me as I live with crossdressing.

      Here’s a few:

      Psalm 139:14   I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made; your works are wonderful, I know that full well.

      Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them;  male and female he created them.

      Romans 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

      Many blessings

      Caroline

      • #410969
        Laura Lovett
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        Logic dictates that, since God made both men and women in his own image, which is not the contradiction it may seem, because God is omnipotent, there is therefore no such thing as a cross dresser, just people who have a sense of fashion in their choice of clothing.

        So this site is redundant! 😍😍😍

        Love Laura

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      • #410878
        Falecia McGuire
        Lady
        Registered On: January 11, 2019
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        Caroline,

        The non-spiritual of the world often criticize those of us who quote scripture.  But, here’s the thing!  If you quote the “Word of God,” to bring comfort and to convey love, how can it be wrong?  On the other hand, if you quote the WoG to cause pain and to convey judgment, it cannot be right!  That is my view!  Although it was in another topic-string, these stories again convey the importance of women’s role in tolerance, understanding, and acceptance of MtF crossdressers.  I do believe that women have been oppressed in our society and our world – primarily by men.  Nonetheless, their ability to acknowledge and value femininity in men will provide the path for acceptance in our society.  Just think!  Where would we be if all the wives and SOs of crossdressers displayed love, insight, and advocacy for our “Gift?”  Because, I have grown to see it as just that!  Many of us would choose to remain private in our dressing.  Nevertheless, privacy is a choice while secrecy is a burden.

        FAM

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    • #410129
      Leslies Ann Gray Girl
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      Registered On: September 22, 2017
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      Lexie , Hi , I am so sorry to here what you went thru , but as has been said here you are not a deviant . Yes the bible says men shouldn’t dress as the opposite sex , but we are not male any more . Yes some dress for sex , and for profit , that is what i feel is meant as a sin . As trans women we crossed a line very early in our lives , and that was we had feminine feelings , we new we were very different than a regular male and still are . I didn’t decide to become female over night and i would bet all here didn’t either . I think it was decided for us before we were borne . As far back as i can remember i have always have had this feminine fire inside me and try as i may she will not leave . I am at peace with her and will be from now on . Remember what Jesus did for all man kind , by taking our sins to the cross he saved us . As he said only through me can you get to the father . There are no people on this earth with out sin , but all are saved . Lexie you are a sweet and wonderful lady , let no one’s anger hurt you . I pray all things for you will work out , and you are at peace inside . Your friend , Leslie

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      • #410138
        Cindy Lou
        Baroness - Annual
        Registered On: November 18, 2020
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        I dress during sex, I guess I’m a sinner too?

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        • #410848
          Leslies Ann Gray Girl
          Lady
          Registered On: September 22, 2017
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          No Cindy Lou , not what i mint , i was talking about those who sell on the street , not someone having sweet fun in the bed room . Forgive me i mint no disrespect . Leslie

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          • #410877
            Cindy Lou
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            No worries Leslie, its just when religion is brought into the subject things get sensitive. That’s why I believe politics and religion don’t have much place here in these civil supportive discussions.

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        • #410250
          Mona
          Duchess
          Registered On: December 18, 2018
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          Lexie,

          When used an adjective, deviant describes something (usually a behavior) that strays from an accepted norm.  At face value, this is fairly innocuous.  The verb deviate is even more innocuous, as it is common to say or hear that something or someone deviates from the norm, without implying anything negative or judgmental.

          Ah, but then we come to the more troublesome noun “deviant”, which is almost always used in a negative, judgmental way.  Especially when proceeded by the adjective “sexual.” In fact, sexual and deviant have been paired so frequently through the years that even without the qualifier, the word deviant infers sexual perversion in most people’s minds.

          Isn’t language wonderful?

          Lexie, it sounds like your wife may have used the word in the heat of the moment.  Perhaps I’m splitting hairs, but I see a difference between her calling you a deviant because of your cross dressing behavior versus her thinking of you as a sexual deviant (she did not actually say sexual deviant but might have been implying it, as many people do).  The obvious difference is that cross dressing is a behavior while “sexual deviant” is a derogatory, hurtful label for you as a person.

          That said, I think we all need to remember to have compassion and understanding for our SOs.  Because to be honest, cross dressing is very much out of the ordinary, unconventional, outside of the widely-accepted norm. Please note I’m not saying that I believe it’s deviant or perverted, but many people, including many SOs, view it that way.  The fact that so many of us have the felt the need to hide it from our SOs and others (often for years or even decades) shows how much we ourselves have internalized society’s perception of this activity as weird, queer, perverted, shameful, etc.

          Coming out to our SOs is difficult but we also need to be prepared for their reactions, which in most cases include one or more of the various stages of grief.  And frankly, who can blame them? It’s the last thing they would ever expect from the partner they thought they knew, and something that is usually very difficult to accept (i.e., “I  did not sign up this!”).

          How can we explain or justify it to others when we don’t understand this urge ourselves? I’m not saying the any of us are deviants or that cross dressing is a deviant behavior.  But I do believe we need to recognize that the majority of people in our lives and in society as a whole continue to view it as very much unconventional, out-of-the ordinary, and yes…well…deviant (in the non-sexual, non-judgmental sense of the word).

          It seems to me your wife has lashed out and used a word that perhaps she did not intend to use.  Or maybe she did intend it. On that note, I will end this with the only three words that matter in marital relations, and if you follow this guidance, it will save you years and years, and vast sums of money, otherwise spent on marriage counseling: Communicate, communicate, communicate.

          I wish you all the best.

          Hugs,

          Mona

          P.S. Here’s another shameless plug for my recent CDH article describing my own, somewhat similar struggles, with guilt and shame.  It’s in the Hodge Podge section so it’s gotten a bit lost in the shuffle, but here’s the link in case you want to read it:

          https://www.crossdresserheaven.com/my-season-of-doubt-and-shame-part-1/

          The early reviews have already been pouring in:

          “This is best described as a piece of writing, and in English, too”

          “A stupendous feat of studied nuance tempered with outright lunacy”

          “Run, do not walk, to the refrigerator for another adult beverage, because you’ll need one after reading this piece of…writing.”

          “You’ll laugh so hard that tears will run down you legs.”

          “I cried so much that I needed three more adult beverages to stay hydrated.”

           

           

           

           

           

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    • #410073
      Lexie Trask
      Princess
      Registered On: August 9, 2020
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      As a fairly conservative Christian myself, I can relate to some of your struggle. There is a verse in the Old Testament that,  in a nutshell says, men shouldn’t wear women’s clothes. I wish I could remember exactly where it is. My wife has quoted it to me before. Usually at the same time she tells me she prays daily for God to remove this demon from me. My point is, as far as your faith goes, you are saved by grace and are no longer under the law. The New Testament is clear on that point. The Old Testament was the “law”. If we were to take every verse from it and try to adhere to them, eating any animal with a cloven hoof would be considered a sin and “deviant behavior”. Just to use one example. God created you to be who you are. You can’t change that. Embrace it! Be proud of it! Your wife may never understand or accept, but you can’t deny who you are. I’m praying for you and your wife.

      Hugs

      Dear Emily,

      Thank you for that insight. I do remember that from the old testament myself. I want to find a ‘happy’ medium with my wife concerning my cross dressing. I know that this may not be achievable, but its al i got rather than give up a part of me for our marriage, or divorce to be me.

      I truly do not want a divorce. we have been married for over 31 years, and i just can’t see myself without her in my life. But, I also have this burning desire (i don’t know if that is the right way to put it) to be seen as feminine.

      I am working with a Therapist to work on Anger issues, but also to work on the cross dressing ‘issues’ between my wife and I.

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    • #410064
      Emily
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      As a fairly conservative Christian myself, I can relate to some of your struggle. There is a verse in the Old Testament that,  in a nutshell says, men shouldn’t wear women’s clothes. I wish I could remember exactly where it is. My wife has quoted it to me before. Usually at the same time she tells me she prays daily for God to remove this demon from me. My point is, as far as your faith goes, you are saved by grace and are no longer under the law. The New Testament is clear on that point. The Old Testament was the “law”. If we were to take every verse from it and try to adhere to them, eating any animal with a cloven hoof would be considered a sin and “deviant behavior”. Just to use one example. God created you to be who you are. You can’t change that. Embrace it! Be proud of it! Your wife may never understand or accept, but you can’t deny who you are. I’m praying for you and your wife.

      Hugs

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      • #410519
        Laura Lovett
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        Registered On: March 26, 2020
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        That passage in the old Testament is in good old Deuteronomy. Chapter 25, I think – but you can Google to confirm.

        Deuteronomy also considered shellfish an abomination, and clothing not made of linen or wool.

        In the same verse, more or less, he states that, if a man rapes a virgin, he must pay her father and marry her.

        He prescribes stoning as the appropriate punishment for a lot of things – and this is just starters.

        In other words, Deuteronomy was very much of his time – although with regard to cross dressing, it was for the purpose of accessing the inner sanctums of the opposite sex, such as a man trying to access a hareem, or a woman trying to access a temple.

        He didn’t actually specify any other purpose of cross dressing as an abomination, but it does depend on the version you read.

        Many men have rewritten the word of God.

        But the shellfish must go!

        Love Laura

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        • #411355
          Bettylou Cox
          Duchess
          Registered On: May 26, 2019
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          Laura (and ladies),

          The scripture in question is Deut. 22:5; it is the only reference to crossdressing, and is mentioned as one of a host of rules for the Jewish people to follow.  I believe that one to be based on the common practice of the surrounding populations who were Baal-worshipers, whose temples housed many male prostitutes who wore women’s clothing.

          As a side note, my own wife thinks it is wrong for me to wear a dress, but she supports me because she knows I am doing “bad” when I Dress, and she sees how happy it makes me.

          Hugs,

          Bettylou

        • #411266
          Mona
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          Registered On: December 18, 2018
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          I’d rather burn in hell than stop eating clams and oysters.

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    • #410057
      Lexie Trask
      Princess
      Registered On: August 9, 2020
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      As a conservative Christian myself there is a lot of guilt and shame that comes from the norms of church and my desire/need to crossdress.

      how many times I wish I could just shut it off or fully embrace it and no longer feel ashamed.  I’ve tried over and over and cannot stop the desire and I know God loves me.

      I have a feminine side.  I can try to deny it but it’s true.  So just like you I am happiest when I can express myself as Aimee.  Even though in my case it’s just at home and I so desire to be passable and comfortable to be in my own skin in public.

      I am both male and a crossdresser and I have a feminine soft side. Perhaps hardwired into me.

      I am searching for the meaning to it all and inner peace.  And I am thankful for this website

      Dear Aimee,

      Thank you for your response. it means so much to me that I am not the only Christian that is having this difficulty. I know that God loves me, and accepts me. I do not feel that presenting my feminine side is a ‘sin’, or is ‘deviant’.

      Maybe God doesn’t condone my behavior, but also don’t feel that it’s a ‘one way ticket to hell’! My personal feelings on this are that as long as I treat others as I would want to be treated, then i am following God’s law. I do not see anywhere in the Bible that cross dressing is wrong. I realize this may bring a lot of controversy, but this is how I feel.

      I am who I am. I accept that others will perceive me as not ‘normal’ (whatever that means!). But, at the end of the day, if I am happy, and I am not harming anyone, why should I be made to feel less that good.

      Lexie

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      • #410058
        Diane Rakers
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        I speak as a non practicing Catholic. I had religion shoved in my face growing up. I don’t have any problems with the church. There is nothing there for me.

        Sometimes organized religions create more problems than they solve.

        I could go on and on.

        Lee Ann

         

         

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        • #410247
          Cindy Lou
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          Registered On: November 18, 2020
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          “Sometimes organized religions create more problems than they solve.”

          Sometimes?

          • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Cindy Lou.
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    • #410050
      Aimee
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      Registered On: September 13, 2020
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      As a conservative Christian myself there is a lot of guilt and shame that comes from the norms of church and my desire/need to crossdress.

      how many times I wish I could just shut it off or fully embrace it and no longer feel ashamed.  I’ve tried over and over and cannot stop the desire and I know God loves me.

      I have a feminine side.  I can try to deny it but it’s true.  So just like you I am happiest when I can express myself as Aimee.  Even though in my case it’s just at home and I so desire to be passable and comfortable to be in my own skin in public.

      I am both male and a crossdresser and I have a feminine soft side. Perhaps hardwired into me.

      I am searching for the meaning to it all and inner peace.  And I am thankful for this website

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      • #411274
        Cindy Lou
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        I believe God will love you no matter what you wear, just be a good person.

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    • #409510
      Rachel Williams
      Lady
      Registered On: June 16, 2019
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      Lexie, we want you to get that word “deviant” out of your head.  That you are not, sweetie.  You are beautiful and caring & don’t let anyone tell you different.

      Tight hugs,

      Rachel

      7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #409504
      Regine Rich
      Princess
      Registered On: October 9, 2020
      Topics: 32
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      I am truly sorry, Lexi, my heart just breaks each and every time I read a post like yours.
      We are all here for you, darling, sisters to the end
      Hugs, Regi

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #409482
      Lily-Rose Nielsen
      Duchess
      Registered On: November 2, 2020
      Topics: 7
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      My ex wife called me far worse things than deviant when she found out, and she is a nurse with sex counseling as speciality. LOL

      Love
      Lily-Rose

      6 users thanked author for this post.
    • #409394
      Diane Rakers
      Lady
      Registered On: August 18, 2019
      Topics: 4
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      So sorry Lexie.

      Lee Ann

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #409370
      rebekka moore
      Lady
      Registered On: January 7, 2017
      Topics: 85
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      Very sorry, Lexie.

      Deviant you are not.  This is not so much a choice we make, but something we are driven to do.  Part of our genetic makeup.

      I fear my wife feels the same, which is why she rejects me where any intimacy is concerned.  We cannot change what they truly think or believe.  In my case I have to make a (hard) choice.  Continue to dress (in the manor I do) and give up all intimacy in our relationship, or stop the dressing and purge everything I have, and be a “man”.  I am not currently seen as a “man” in my wife’s eyes.

      That hurts.  You have to do what’s right for you, and that may involve succumbing to “societies” idea of being a “man”.

      Love, hugs and all the best to you.

      Rebecka

    • #409362
      Rei Durden
      Baroness - Annual
      Registered On: October 11, 2020
      Topics: 21
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      Lexie, I am so sorry that things are unsettled  right now.
      I won’t be the voice of doom here, a traditional marriage is made of 2 people and it takes both to make it a success or a failure. I always think of any communication as a positive sign, even the loud painful discussions. Silence however is cause for concern.

      You are not ‘deviant’ whatsoever, that’s been addressed here already backwards and forwards.
      I am really hoping this is just a bump in the road for you and your spouse, that you’ll look back on this time period as a challenge that was met and overcome, strengthening you both mentally and spiritually!

      Best wishes, Rei

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #409352
      patty williams
      Lady
      Registered On: January 19, 2019
      Topics: 72
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      HI Lexie,

      I just wanted to weigh in on your experience and give you some support.

      You are not a deviant sweetie, those sounds like words of anger because you do not conform to the norm.

      I am sorry you are having these marital issues.

      My marriage too has been strained severely by my propensity to being feminine.

      However we have to be true to who we are.

      We think you are normal and beautiful so dont give up on yourself.

      Maybe one day she will see this

       

      Hugs Patty

    • #409147
      Robyn Devine
      Duchess
      Registered On: October 24, 2020
      Topics: 15
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      Lexie

      First off – deviant you are NOT!! Try and wash that from your thoughts, I know thats tough to do.

      I can speak from a very similar experience with my ex-wife.

      Whoever the person your committed to, in your case your wife, starts taking your vulnerabilities like cross dressing and turns them into a weapon to stab and hurt you…mmmm…its not a good sign to say the least.

      My EX-wife did it to me.  At that moment, our relationship was over because by weaponizing my dressing, she intentionally hurt me.  Also by doing that, she betrayed my trust.  Once trust is broken like that, its very hard to come back from.

      Good luck to you, stand tall and strong

      xo – Robyn

      10 users thanked author for this post.
    • #409143
      Bettylou Cox
      Duchess
      Registered On: May 26, 2019
      Topics: 20
      Replies: 2106
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      Some folks are quick to label any act which is atypical or “outside the box” as deviant; but it usually has a sexual connotation, as in gay or S&M.  We are Different, absolutely, but deviant? NO.  That was a deliberate insult, and I suspect it signals the end of your relationship.

      7 users thanked author for this post.
      • #411267
        Mona
        Duchess
        Registered On: December 18, 2018
        Topics: 10
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        Well said, BettyLou, except I don’t think it necessarily indicates the end of the relationship.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #411356
          Bettylou Cox
          Duchess
          Registered On: May 26, 2019
          Topics: 20
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          Thank you, Mona;  I should hope it doesn’t mean the end, but the name-calling  is a bad signal.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #409074
      Bobbi Sue
      Registered On: September 15, 2020
      Topics: 13
      Replies: 114
      Has thanked: 142 times
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      Deviant…  That’s simply ex-wife talk.  It’s used to cast you, not her, as the marital problem.    Keep in mind if you do get divorced, court won’t care that you dress.

      And don’t be so quick to blame yourself.   I don’t know enough to absolve you of being part of the problem, but I guarantee it’s not all on you.

    • #409068
      Lexie Trask
      Princess
      Registered On: August 9, 2020
      Topics: 13
      Replies: 120
      Has thanked: 267 times
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      Lexi:

      There are some therapists that are working online through Telehealth and other platforms. There may be someone in your area doing this…

      Yes! I have a therapist meeting on Monday via Skype.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #409035
      Anonymous
      Registered On:
      Topics: 16
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      So if cross dressing is deviant behavior, then just exactly what are we deviating from? Bigotry and bigots are what we’re deviating from.

      • #409051
        Sally Drinkwater
        Duchess
        Registered On: July 15, 2019
        Topics: 19
        Replies: 292
        Has thanked: 74 times
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        Devient behaviour is not soley confined to kinky sex, wearing odd socks could be considered deviating from the norm.

        Reading the ideas and thoughts of some CDH members is definately abnormal but dressing as a woman is not one of them.

        7 users thanked author for this post.
    • #408998
      Anonymous
      Registered On:
      Topics: 58
      Replies: 1706
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      Hi Lexie

      I am sorry your marriage is struggling….the fact you do have cdh as a place to confide and get advice is not just wonderful for you, but I’m sure it makes everyone here feel good too, that we can try to help you through!!…..

      What really does stand out for me in your post, is your place of work….wow, it must be a joy to go there each day…it’s amazing how a company can support its workers so well, and make your job a safe place to be…..yet when you leave each day, you enter a world that CAN be so different towards you…and us!!!

      Keep positive Lexie, grace ❤️

    • #408997
      Sa•man•tha
      Managing Ambassador
      Registered On: January 21, 2018
      Topics: 474
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      Hey!  No deviants allowed on CDH!

      Since you’re here I can only assume you’re normal, Lexie ❤

      • #409348
        stephanie plumb
        Baroness - Annual
        Registered On: November 17, 2018
        Topics: 152
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        Tsk! Tsk!   Sammy!   “All inclusive we are” – as Yoda would say.

        Steph 😁

        3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #408994
      Laura Lovett
      Lady
      Registered On: March 26, 2020
      Topics: 13
      Replies: 1120
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      Deviant suggests that there is a predefined template for human beings that we must all adhere to or be outcast.

      To quote Graham Chapman in Monty Python’s “Life of Brian”, You’re all individuals, you’ve all got to think for yourselves – you’re all different!”

      We’re all deviants, et viva la difference!

      Love Laura

    • #408955
      Lexie Trask
      Princess
      Registered On: August 9, 2020
      Topics: 13
      Replies: 120
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      Hopefully just words in the heart of the moment , not truly felt 😟😟

      Unfortunately, that is not the case in my situation. When I told my wife that I am a cross dresser, she didn’t really know what to say. We did have a rather heated argument, since at that time her and I were having many other issues. Although there were a couple of things that did get resolved that day, me being a CD, and som other serious issues between us are still there.

      Sometimes I feel more like a secondary support, rather than an equal in a marriage. Monday 11/23/2020, I have an appointment with a therapist.

      Around October of 2019, I came out at work as a cross dresser. The HR person that I was working with at the time, unbeknownst to me, had reached out to the corporate Director of EEO and Diversity. Well, the HR person and Pamela (the Director), had a phone discussion. Pamela was SO supportive and said that the company stands behind me. They are VERY involved in the LGBTQ community, and ask some very direct questions. Pamela actually flew out to our campus to give a presentation about me, but also that I am to be treated with respect and dignity. The company does not tolerate any type of derogatory behavior towards ANYONE, regardless of race, creed, religion or sexual identification! When I finally actually met Pamela in person, she was AWESOME! She brought along a therapist to introduce to me, and to be present during the presentation to answer ANY questions the people attending the presentation asked!

      after the presentation, which I was not allowed to attend, Pamela and I had to go the the bathroom. I was heading to the single occupancy bathroom, when Pamela said “where are you going?”  She grab my hand and marched me right into the women’s bathroom!

      well, Pamela and I have become good friends.  But, my wife doesn’t see things this openly. I can somewhat see things from her perspective, but I do not 100% agree with her on the topic of cross dressing.

      I apologize for rambling, but with this pandemic, I don’t have anyone close to me that I can openly talk to! This community is so fantastic!

      Love to All,

      Lexie

      • #410088
        PY Marshall
        Duchess
        Registered On: July 21, 2018
        Topics: 1
        Replies: 362
        Has thanked: 1573 times
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        Lexie ,no wish to offend but possibly your wife could benefit from a therapist, and a chat with Pamela.  Pyxx.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #409065
        DeeAnn Hopings
        Duchess
        Registered On: November 10, 2019
        Topics: 11
        Replies: 779
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        Lexi:

        There are some therapists that are working online through Telehealth and other platforms. There may be someone in your area doing this…

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #408950
      Anonymous
      Registered On:
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      Replies: 904
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      Hopefully just words in the heart of the moment , not truly felt 😟😟

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #408948
      Araminta Purdy
      Duchess
      Registered On: January 23, 2020
      Topics: 6
      Replies: 344
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      In case nobody has noticed, I find much of commonly-used terminology questionable as to meaning and usage. The word, deviant, has two, rather dismal, meanings.

      First, it implies that something is immoral. The difficulty with the concept of morality is that it is too often based on unverifiable beliefs. To me it is improper to legislate laws or create conventions to be enforced through enforcement, social pressure or ideals of behaviour based on something that cannot be determined to inaccurate or accurate. (So-called ‘masquerade’ laws were used to punish cross-dressers and were condone by a society deeply in the thrall of the ‘pansy’ scare.) Rules such as these should be based on objective reality and not on subjective reality. The right to deviate from social conventions should sometimes be thought of in terms of freedom of expression.

      This does not mean that I do not believe in the value of laws, conventions, rules, etc. Especially if they serve an obviously useful purpose even if only in terms of simple courtesy. They not only aid in promoting generally safety but in ameliorating social interactions by providing a common basis for understanding, expectations and communication.  They make us comfortable because we know what to expect of others and what is expected of us. They are a communicative lubricant for the potential frictions between individuals and groups.

      Cross-dressing creates problems for some people because they do not understand the motivations, they do not know how to respond, they do not know what is expected of them and it lies outside of what they believe to be moral behaviour. As for those things they do not know, the solution is education and the establishment of social conventions that allow each of us to interact without feeling or creating discomfort. People do not like to feel foolish, awkward or at a loss.

      For example, how do you refer to a male presenting as a woman? I  believe that the convention should be that you use feminine terminology for a feminine presentation and if there is doubt, ask. Coming down hard on a person who is unaware of such a convention is carrying ‘political correctness’ too far and making such a person uncomfortable simply antagonizes them and does not advance a common understanding.

      As for their belief that cross-dressing is immoral, I do not feel that they have any rational reason for believing so. If fact, any behaviour that is relatively harmless should not be define as immoral. Weird, maybe, but so what? I would except aesthetic atrocities which can be harmful in that they can be egregiously offensive, but the line between Art and the sort of Trash that motivates one to regurgitate one’s French fries can be a fine one.

      So, basically, I do not like to use the word ‘moral’ for behaviour that should be acceptable as it seems based on irrationality and personal perceptions rather than on a more ubiquitously agreed upon and objective measure of benefits versus harm.

      Deviancy is also regarded in the sense of ‘normal’. As far as I can see, ‘normal’ means two things.

      First it refers to a statistically defined norm. That is something is deemed ‘normal’ if most people do it. However, I feel that some things that are commonly done we can well do without. Also, in any statistical situation the number of people who are ‘normal’ is actually generally a small segment of the general group. Some people are only 0.6 metres tall. Some people are 2.6 metres tall. The usual range of people is between 1.5 metres and 1.8 meters. But that does not mean that the people outside the latter range are ‘deviant’ and there are likely enough persons outside of that range to take in a significant portion of the general population. There are likely instances where something is considered ‘normal’ but which applies to less than 50% of the general population. (I can’t think of a cogent example so I will let you do that.) So, in a sense, those who are ‘normal’ are actually not normal as they do not make the majority, just a sizeable plurality.

      Secondly ‘normal’ seems to be a term psychologists use to define their concepts of moral but to still seem to be scientifically objective. A clever ruse, but are they really fooling anyone?

      So I do not like ‘moral’ and I do not like ‘normal’ because of the negative and pejorative connotations and because their usage seems more harmful than necessarily as being arbitrarily excluding and punitive.

      In the television series, “Cheers”, there was a character, Norm, who sat a bar and consumed beverages. A similar character appeared the the series, “Star Trek: Deep Space Nine”. The creators of the latter series made a nodding homage to the former by naming the latter character Morn. So:

      I take moral and normal and compress them into mornal which has some of the characteristics of both but there is a difference. First, I remove the judgemental elements of moral and keep the ethical element of behaviour that is minimally harmful and even beneficial and therefore acceptable. Second, I remove the necessity of numerical prevalence so that ‘mornal’ behaviour may be unusual but still rational, meaningful and even aesthetically stimulating.

      So mornal behaviour may be ‘deviant’ in the sense that one follows a road less traveled, dances to the beat of a different drum, lets their freak flag fly, explores new ideas or old ones in new ways, is inventive, questioning and above all self-actuallizing. But frankly I would rather be deviant and mornal rather than some other people’s ideas of moral or normal which are, too often, too normal and not all that moral.

      Araminta.

      • #410164
        Mona
        Duchess
        Registered On: December 18, 2018
        Topics: 10
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        Very well articulated, Araminta!

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #410239
          Araminta Purdy
          Duchess
          Registered On: January 23, 2020
          Topics: 6
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          Oh, thanks! I never know how these rambles are going to be received but I felt the issue was important. I have difficulties accepting general ideas of morality as the definition of morality often seems to rest of vague or even fantastical premises. For example the idea that marriage can only be between a man and a woman. What is the basis of that statement when marriage is fundamentally a contractual arrangement based on civil legislation? The religious aspects, apparently the basis for the moral issues, vary from religion to religion. Also, I do not feel that any authority can impose rules or laws based on supposition but only upon the basis of common reality. That is upon reality that is manifestly true for everyone.

          Does ‘man and woman’ mean ‘male and female’ because, if so, I find that unsupported by any rationality. Or does ‘man and woman’ mean a feminine person and a masculine person because, if so,  find that extraordinarily limiting. True, if the purpose of specifically creating children then the male-female paradigm seems a necessity but, as Osgood Fielding III pointed out, one can always adopt.

          And ‘normal’ just appears to be a form of morality based on social conventions. That is it is based on the belief that behaviour is correct because everyone does it. That argument has been used to justify some pretty nasty things; slavery for example.

          At the same time rules and conventions are necessary. So I look for another basis upon which they might be established. The Wiccan principle:

          And it harm none,

          Do what you will!

          has some promise except, sometimes, it is necessary to do harmful things. So, perhaps, ‘good’ behaviour should be defined by what does the least harm.

          Cross-dressing does harm people but most often that is because of their own beliefs, perceptions, morality and sense of normality and not because because the cross-dresser necessarily does anything deliberate to be hurtful. For example, I do have issues with cross-dressing in a manner that objectifies and even demeans females; especially children. But that is another topic. Generally, cross-dressing is an act of beautification, self-actualization, results from a desire to interact with others in healthy and desirable ways and other benefits and generally enhances the aesthetics of our lives.

          So the difficulty seems to be to find ways to ameliorate any harm that cross-dressing might do by a critical examination of our own behaviours and the motives for them so that we can thereby educate others and make them more comfortable. While cross-dressing is perfectly ‘mornal’, there are rules we need to consider.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #410582
            Mona
            Duchess
            Registered On: December 18, 2018
            Topics: 10
            Replies: 115
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            “Cross-dressing does harm people but most often that is because of their own beliefs, perceptions, morality and sense of normality and not because because the cross-dresser necessarily does anything deliberate to be hurtful.”

            Are you saying that a wife who learns of her husband’s secretive cross dressing after years or decades of marriage is wrong to feel hurt, angry, betrayed, etc because she has biased perception of what is normal or moral?

            If so, then I disagree with your assertion. But I could well be misinterpreting what you are saying.

             

          • #410965
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
            Registered On: March 26, 2020
            Topics: 13
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            Absolutely agree that any wife is completely wrong to feel hurt to find out that their husband enjoys dressing up.

            There is absolutely no harm, but in the so-called societal norms.

            Where is the harm in dressing up?

            Actors do it all the time.

            Now if you found out your husband was a secret murderer then you’d be right to be furious.

            Please have some perspective.

            To say that men can’t wear women’s clothing is as bad as saying women should not wear trousers and stick to the washing, ironing and feeding – it’s blatant sexism and bigotry.

            Please understand what bigotry means, as some people use the word like an insult – I have no intention of being insulting, only of stating facts.

            Love Laura.

    • #408914
      Aimee
      Lady
      Registered On: September 13, 2020
      Topics: 0
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      Thanks for posting.  My ex wife would have definitely said the same thing as yours said to you.  Good thing for me that she never figured out that I was cross-dressing.

      I have felt a lot of shame over my past crossdressing and thought it was deviant only to really discover it’s ok.   My current wife accepts me dressing as Aimee.  So no, crossdressing is not deviant.

      • #408921
        Lexie Trask
        Princess
        Registered On: August 9, 2020
        Topics: 13
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        Thank you Aimee and Stephanie!

        I have come to the realization that my cross dressing is not deviant nor immoral. The fact that I prefer women’s clothes over male clothes does not change the person inside of me. With the exception that I’m happier as Lexie!

        While I’ve only been cross dressing for a relatively short time, approximately 4-5 years, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m happier when dressed en-femme! Many of my co-workers have commented on the fact that when I’m Lexie, I’m happier, more engage with my work.

        Although my wife does not understand, nor do I think she wants to, this is a part of ME! My wife and I are very conservative Christian couple, but I do not feel that God is going to send me to Hell because of the choice of clothing that I wear. Although he may not approve, I feel that he still loves me, and can ‘overlook’ this.

        I have found that this community is very supportive, and although I do not always agree with everyone here all the time, the perspectives they bring forward give one “good for thought” shall I say!

    • #408891
      Stephenie Derick
      Baroness
      Registered On: July 9, 2020
      Topics: 0
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      I’m sorry Lexie.  You are not deviant.  We are just different.  There is nothing wrong with that.

      6 users thanked author for this post.
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