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    • #742632
      Anonymous

      Hi Everyone,

      I’m trying to figure out where or if crossdressers fit into the LGBTQ+ community.  I feel like the answer is yes, but I’m reluctant to join a local support group because I fear that I will not be accepted.  I consider myself to still be mostly heterosexual and it’s only when en femme that I even think about being bisexual.  So far, I crossdress for the sexual excitement, and it’s possible this is just a fetish for me.  If it’s only for sexual pleasure, would that be included for LGBTQ+?

      PFLAG doesn’t include “crossdresser” in their glossary which makes think this is not a clear cut answer.

      LGBTQ+ Glossary – PFLAG

      What do you think?  What reaction have your received from people in the LGBTQ+ community?

      Spectra

    • #742637

      Put crossdressing aside.

      People of all different defined sexual orientations support LGBTQ+.

      I don’t see why you would not be accepted.

      I think we try to put labels on things to better define them. We try to put things in boxes because it gives us order and to better understand things.

      But we create noise when labeling and putting things in order because we have difficulty defining certain things and maybe there is no box for it.

      Do what you feel is comfortable

      Alanna

       

    • #742646
      Angela Booth
      Hostess

      It’s a very gray area with respect to crossdressers as the origins of the group was for Gay and Lesbian rights and is perhaps more about sexuality as Bi sexual would be within that remit but the addition of trans was a good thing as the group supported rights which have had benefit to crossdressers who go out as women. To me the addition of trans is an anomaly within the organisation which has caused issues within along with the multitude of titles and meanings being within the group.

      The gray area is that although a trans male may still be attracted to females is it taken as a inference they are now lesbian and vice versa for Trans female. If you were a male crossdresser  gay, Bi or any other term within the spectrum you would fit because of your sexuality but as a ‘straight’ crossdresser you aren’t any of the above but wish to present as a woman in daily life. If that is your situation in being quite out about your crossdressing then it shouldn’t be an issue to join a group to see what happens as you say you have  a Bi inclination.

    • #742647
      Harriette
      Lady

      “I’m reluctant to join a local support group because I fear that I will not be accepted.” Spectra G

      Maybe you should contact them to find out the mandate of that particular group. Good communication vs guessing, presuming or fearing will give you guidance.

      On the other hand, if they are not willing to accept you, then move on and don’t waste your time on them.

    • #742649

      True crossdressers doesn’t belong to the LGBTQ+ community! In the 50’s crossdressing was a mental problem! In the 70’s crossdressing was removed from mental and listed as a fetish! Then in the early 2000’s crossdressing was removed from the Medical Society. It is no longer listed as anything because a lot of people do it. Both Male and female crossdress! The word crossdress is someone who wears the opposite genders clothes for what ever reason!

      • #742651
        Harriette
        Lady

        This almost sounds like Emo Phillips’ “Golden Gate Bridge” skit.

      • #742702
        Liz K
        Managing Ambassador

        True crossdressers???  What’s that?

        They don’t belong in the LGBTQ+ community?  My first-hand experience says otherwise.

        /EA

        • #743938

          True crossdressers are cisgender people that wear the opposite genders clothes. A cisgender woman who wears mens boxer shorts to sleep in just because they feel more comfortable, or there are plenty of cisgender males who wear panties just because they feel more comfortable! That is an example of a true crossdresser. That doesn’t mean they have gender dysphoria ( the latest medical term for transgender and gender identity disorder). People who crossdresses and are cisgendered, not homosexual or bi have nothing to do with the LGBTQ+ community. They just crossdress!

    • #742650
      Gwyneth
      Lady

      Seems like if anything crossdressing might fall under the ambiguous + part of that.

      Gwyn

    • #742663

      I’m a crossdresser. A man in a dress. Recently I’ve been almost full time as Cerys, but over the weekend I have been in drab mode. Are we on the LGBTQ+ spectrum? A friend of mine said this…. “Other will see you as transgender. Even if you are not, others will see you as transgender. Because of this, you fit into the T of LGBTQ+, even if just on the edges of it”. When presenting as women we are open to all the issues and problems that trans people face. Where we have the advantage, and I use that word as I can’t think of a better way of saying it, is that we can go home and get changed back into our “man clothes”. Trans women do not have this. They have to put up with all the sht that bigots spew out all of the time. We can revert and return to the safety of our “normal” lives.
      We are supportive of trans people. We face the same issues as trans people (when dressed). We go shopping for female clothing, make up, underwear, shoes…. We do all the things trans people do, but for us, it’s only temporary. To the outside world looking in, we are trans…. This is why we do fit in the spectrum, but only on the edges of it. There is not a “flag” for crossdressers. My wife bought me a trans pendant as a gift, saying that “You almost are”, but it doesn’t fit with me. I do wear it sometimes, but I feel like an imposter. Our lives are so much easier than our trans sisters and brothers due to the fact that we can change back.
      Are we trans? No.
      Do we belong in the LGBTQ+ spectrum…Yes, but only just.

      Cerys

      • #742667
        Chrissie Smith
        Baroness

        Beautifully put Cerys.

        XOXO Chrissie.

      • #742680
        Liz K
        Managing Ambassador

        Cerys,

        I would warmly welcome you into the trans group I attend.  I’m sure the other members would as well.  You may be different than me, but you are also a sister.  Nobody I know would ever consider you an imposter.  Don’t sell yourself short.

        Emily

    • #742665
      Nancy
      Lady

      Having a desire to express your gender as something other than you were assigned at birth seems gender non-conforming, regardless of your motivation. So I consider it falling under the trans umbrella. But if you don’t feel like you are LGBTQ+, that’s ok too. Just be you, and dress/express however makes you happy.
      I have found the LGBTQIA+ community to be very accepting and supportive, and am pleased to consider myself one of them.

      Nancy

    • #742668

      I believe we do fall under LGBTQ+ community, but I’m not sure they think we do unless you’re Drag Queen.

      There has been advancements  for the community over time. It’s just been in the past few years that Trans women have become more “main stream.” Just like the Gay and Lesbian community took awhile to be accepted and then those that were Bi. So, with all that said maybe in the near future Cross Dressers will be accepted more.

      I, myself, don’t dress for sexual purposes. I dress because I love presenting as a woman. But I have found that the more I embrace this side of me, I have become more feminine and have started looking at men in a romantic way. I guess it had always been there but suppressed with everything else. I have come to the conclusion that I am Bi. I like strong handsome men as well as beautiful feminine women.

      Hugs, Liara

      • #742682
        Liz K
        Managing Ambassador

        Liara,

        There is a very small minority of outspoken transgender women that say you aren’t trans unless you are doing a full medical transition (HRT and surgeries).  They disdain anyone that doesn’t fit their narrow definition of what trans is.  That thinking has been soundly rejected by the rest of the LGBTQ community.  The vast majority of us welcome CD’s and gender non conforming folks.  Most mental health professionals agree.  We’re all in this together.

        /EA

        • #742698

          Thanks Emily I appreciate the optimism ( the former cop in me is always skeptical). I love hearing a positive take on things and it gives me focus and hope. It just still amazes me that there can be trans women that think that way.

          I took a drive this afternoon, dressed and with my makeup done. It felt nice. I wanted to stop and maybe just get a drink at a mini  mart but there is still that nagging thought that I won’t be accepted. It’s my problem that I need to address and get past. I just hope someday someone like me doesn’t have that same concern.

          Thanks again Emily, what you said made me feel better.

          Hugs, Liara

    • #742684

      I find the question very interesting.  I’m nothing more than a man in a dress.  I am  under dressed to some extent or another 24/7 as at the very least, I ALWAYS wear panties.   I have never had an interest in having sex with a man and my CDing is not a sexual thing.  I simply enjoy the feeling of dressing in women’s clothing.  I find bras and bralettes to be exceedingly comfortable as they hug my body.  There is nothing better than shaving my legs so the nylon thigh highs can caress my legs.  Makeup (I use it maybe twice/month) takes about 10 – 12 years off my face.  If I could CD 24/7, 365 days a year, I believe I would.  But, that doesn’t change the fact I’d still be a MIAD.  That does not put me, in my estimation, on the LGBTQ+ scale in any way.

      The fact is the only way I would be able to CD 100% of the time is if my wife were deceased.  If that were the case, then I might become a member of the LGBTQ+ spectrum as I honestly believe I would enjoy being with a M2F trans that has not had bottom surgery.  That said, I don’t see that situation ever presenting itself.  So maybe, just maybe, I’m more accurately a “wannabe member.”  I think actions speak louder than thoughts in this case.   As another has said, I do find myself supporting the LGBTQ+ cause much more than I did 5 years ago.

    • #742686
      Staci Gal
      Lady

      Spectra G….   Hi.  My answer to your question is simple.  No.  Smile…   Staci…

    • #742713

      I don’t ascribe to being under their aegis but to each her own.

    • #742725
      Liz K
      Managing Ambassador

      I’ve been lurking around the comments of this thread trying to inject a bit of optimism.  Was kinda hesitant to directly reply and risk repeating what I’ve said ad nauseam in other posts.  Oh well here goes….

      I’m trans.  Am I different from most crossdressers?  Yes….and no.  But that’s beside the point.

      I don’t care what you’re motivations are for crossdressing.  I don’t care how often or how little you do it.  I don’t care if you’re deep in the closet or out to the entire world.  I don’t care if your wardrobe consists of a single panty or you have a closet the size of Kim Kardashian.  I don’t care about who you want to sleep with.  I don’t care if….well you get the point.

      You are all my sisters!  Every transgender woman I know would say the same thing.  And I know LOTS of them.

      I’m a member of the LGBTQ community.  I’ve met and spoken to literally hundreds of girls.  Not once have I heard anyone say crossdressers should be excluded.  What I DO hear is quite the opposite.  We are all in this together.  We need to be.

      Lots of CD’s adamantly refuse to accept they’re a part of the LGBTQ community.  Why?  Why would you NOT want to be included?  Ask yourself, could there be a bit of internalized transphobia?  It happens.  It’s subtle.  I don’t have a spotless record.

      Here’s a reality check.

      The rest of the world…..the cis-binary types….they think you’re trans.  They don’t see any distinction between CD’s and someone who’s transitioned.  The wives and girlfriends that know….they’re worried you might be trans.  Most of those cis-binary folks don’t understand us.  They fear us.  And they marginalize us.  Then there’s the subset that sees you and me as a threat to society….and needs to be contained.  You’re not avoiding any of this crap by excluding yourself.  There’s power in numbers girls.

      So guess what?  You’re a member of the LGBTQ community whether you like it or not.  You can thank the rest of the world for that.  We’re glad to have you.  Trust me on that one.

      Spectra – call your local LGBTQ support group.  They’d love to have you there.

      That’s all.

      /EA

      • #742748

        Dear Emily
        I would just like to thank you for your great message on this matter! Really, it is inspirational and is very much appreciated.

        I am a heterosexual male who loves to crossdress and would do so all the time if circumstances allowed. But it does not matter what my gender is (or what I think it is) nor what my sexuality is (or what I think it is) nor my preference in attire. We are part of the LGBTQ+ community…but not to dominate it, not to expect special treatment, not to impose any specific demands on it (such as we seem to be hearing about certain groups within the community). There is too much hate and fear from the non-LGBTQ+ communities to be fighting between ourselves.

        I am part of the LGBTQ+ community and (to coin a phrase): proud of it.

        So rock on ladies…the movement is helping us be who we are, how could be deny being part of it?

      • #743330

        Amen, sister.

      • #743449

        Thank you Emily for your eloquent, thoughtful, and inspirational post. Gratitude as well to all the other heartfelt affirmations of inclusion in the LGBTQ+ community.

        I have always been an ally. It was a revelation recently to realize that my love of cross-dressing and being a woman makes me more than an ally. I am a member of the community.

        How wonderful that, even as our community is under attack, more and more are appreciating that gender is a spectrum and that there is liberation and (if one is lucky) love in gender fluidity.

    • #742732

      It is a really interesting question,  I think cross-dressing is a “symptom” (bear with me) of many different causes in the same way the having a cough could be a symptom of having a cold or having one of a number of other potentially more serious diseases.

      I think LGBTQ+ support groups and the like are there for people who want to meet like minded people and people who are struggling with their identity, struggling with family and work issues, etc. So my guess is that if you are happy as a guy in a dress occasionally and otherwise live a fairly normal  life as a heterosexual man you might not be very welcome at a support group and indeed you might feel like you don’t fit in. OTOH if you are struggling with your identity and want help or just want somewhere to be yourself then a support group might be for you.

    • #742747
      Anonymous
      Lady

      It’s a great question that I’m struggling with a well.  I started out as a CD and there was definitely an element of sexual excitment about it, but now that I live fully as Michelle it doesn’t excite me in that way anymore.  It’s just who I am, but I feel a little hesitant about being in the LGBTQ community.

    • #742758
      Cassie Jayson
      Duchess

      As a short answer, yes they do. Other similar questions have been asked here in the past. Crossdressers are under the ‘trans spectrum’ or ‘trans umbrella’. Whether gay’, bi, or straight, OR couple times a year dressing or every day.
      For me in my profile when asked when did I realize I was trans, I got angry, I AM ONLY A CROSSDRESSER I AM NOT TRANS. Today I have moved into almost 100% ‘socially transitioning’, and am so happy with where I am at.
      So I would say as you are a crossdresser possibly you will not be accepted in all groups, but likely you would in some. Check it out.

      . Cassie

    • #742760
      Anonymous

      Yes, I consider myself as part of the trans community. I think I am on the transgender spectrum, I do enjoy my male side, but my feminine side is so important to me and I try to express it as much as possible. I am growing as a women, it is a part of who I am and I could never give this side of myself up. I just wish others could be more accepting. The differences in people make the world a more interesting place and crossdressing is one of those differences.

    • #742796
      Sutekina
      Lady

      Therein lies the crux (not necessarily a problem). The T is on a spectrum. Take Facebook for example: gender started with several identities. It wasn’t long before this list expanded to 99 identities (or so) and then became limitless (you type your own). Some people somewhere on the spectrum would be insulted or appalled to be identified as anything in the opposite side of the scale. Others probably don’t care. Some crossdressers don’t identify as transgendered, but that’s incorrect as transgender is simply an umbrella term for the infinite number of expressions. A BIG caveat: even as I write this response, the term transgender is being redefined.

      Is CD included in this or that organization? It depends who is giving a definition today. An organizational leadership change could change the definition based on experiences/relationships.

      I would say your expression is further away from that of a CD who identifies as hetero, whether dressed or not.

      • #743456

        Obviously yes, what many have not understood or do not want to understand is that adding up all the letters of the acronym LGBTQI+ the final result is: Human Race.

        XOXOX from Italy 🇮🇹
        Greta ❤️💙❤️

    • #742834

      Hi Spectra

      In my humble opinion yes we are part of this group, whether you want to interpret us as part of the ‘T’ or the ‘+’.

      I know there are those who argue about the semantics of it but I feel we are together primarily because we are different from heterosexual people who are comfortable being and dressing how society expects.  We are different from those people, and express it, and that is wonderful. Whether we display clothing, make up, hair, habits etc with those normally associated with the opposite sex, or have different sexual orientation, it’s all good as long as it is doing others no harm.
      Trans is ‘along’ ‘beyond’ ‘on or to the other side of’. So transgender is somewhere along the spectrum between male or female, not only in clothes but attitudes, actions, loves, etc.

      Since I let Bianca out I not only wear different clothes etc, but feel more able to express my true self, let my inner happiness out, love more feminine things, fabrics, scents, pamper myself, talk about feelings and traditionally girly things, love a cocktail or Prosecco instead of beer, etc etc etc. So am I somewhere between traditional societal views on what makes a man a man, and a woman a woman? Yes I am.
      So I am somewhere along or between male and female? Yes, so Trans? Yes in my opinion.
      B x

    • #742845

      Hi,

      I really think that taking the LGBTQ part away from it, there is a “+” option left.

      I truly believe that a majority of people who don’t identify as part of the LGBTQ part would have some kind of thought, preference or previous experience that would put them in the “+” group, and I know it doesn’t cover everyone, but I’m sure a huge amount of people if they were honest, would fit in.

    • #742860

      Well, as time moves along, so to do definitions set by whomever sets them. In short, everyone who expresses themselves to be representing as another gender, falls under the transgender umbrella.  Simply because you may believe it is a form of fetishism today, does not mean you will stay in that frame of mind of expression. For me, at say age 8, I dressed as I was beginning to go through puberty so there was a sexual element to it. But, there obviously was more to it than just sexual pleasure otherwise, why did I need to represent the opposite gender, rather than simply think of the opposite gender. It was the act of actually wanting to be of the opposite gender that turned me on. Years later,I have travelled along the spectrum to where I am now, gender fluid, heterosexual in male gender and lesbian in female gender. Today for example is day 11 as Jill. Do I feel different? No, I feel normal, presently female. Who will I be tomorrow? Won’t know really until it arrives.  So over about sixty years, I have moved along the transgender spectrum from simply getting my thrills as a kid, to openly being a trans woman some days and a man others. Did I know this would happen? Are you kidding me? Who would wish for this as a career path? Lol Will I have gender surgeries? No idea. I can afford what the government won’t pay for, FRS, for example, but nothing in my twisted brain tells me I need it. Yet. But then, there’s tomorrow right?

      We are all so different with so many variations there is simply no way we can identify as this or that other than to say we are all transgender if for whatever reason, we have a need to represent another gender, temporarily or for life. Really, at the end of the day, who really cares except those paying for us to advance what our brains and bodies are telling us what we need, not want. Fair enough, other things equal.

      The most important and hardest thing to do, by far, is come to terms with who we are, which is so so hard because early on, we don’t know who we are or where this will all go. Acceptance of oneself will open the mind to looking in from the outside and that will let you sleep at night knowing you love who you are and are not just a “ fluke of the universe”.

      • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Jill Lacey.
      • #743392
        Janet Woodham
        Duchess - Annual

        You are so right Jill. Classifications are arbitrary as I learnt in my career as a Librarian!

    • #743280
      Anonymous

      Thank you everyone for your wonderful responses.  I appreciate you taking the time.

    • #743352

      A yes from me too.Although I identify as a Crossdresser I have always wished that I was the opposite gender.When I am dressed I want to be as much like a real woman as I possibly can be.I am not just expressing a feminine side.My wife  who is very supportive of my  crossdressing once bought two hundred and fifty pounds  worth of ladies clothes at one of our nearest Marks And Spencer’s stores I was delighted with them and sent an online message to their Customer Services department telling them I was transgender.I got a lovely chatty and girly reply which pleased me to the core.

    • #743395
      Janet Woodham
      Duchess - Annual

      At a logical level the answer is yes if we consider LGBTQ to be the appropriate classification for those who do not conform to the traditional norms for sexual and gender identity. Of course classification is not an exact science. I prefer to adopt the female role and in that role I am more interested in men although I am not dating and never have dated a man. It is however the role rather than any form of attraction that would define me and give me pleasure. What does that make me? I must confess as a retired librarian the problem fascinates but I don’t have an answer. My main concern however is that we be treated with respect and consideration.

    • #743409

      Yes, I have no problem with crossdressers being under the LGBTQ+ umbrella. The linkage is that ALL of us are more likely to be less rigid in our thinking about sexuality and gender identity compared to the general population.

      A couple of things to remember:

      • Humans are naturally social creatures, barring trauma or mental issues. “Finding our tribe” has particular significance for us as it is often more comfortable to be among our peers. It improves the chances there won’t be stupid questions and we won’t have to feel that we need to justify our feelings, actions or existence.
      • All of us, the L’s, the G’s, the B’s, the T’s, the Q’s, et al, are likely to have a different perspective on sexuality and gender identity compared to those outside of the community. We expect that because there are so many outside of the community who choose not to learn anything about the community and its various parts and pieces. But unfortunately it also happens within the community. Based on my experience, so many gay men associate trans women with men doing drag. That really burns my ass because they see all of the elements, but come to the wrong conclusion. From this, it is easy to see why a similar thought process exists outside of the community. It is particularly disappointing as we should expect better from within our community.
    • #743437
      Amy Myers
      Baroness

      For a long time I never considered myself part of the LGBTQ+ community as I’m part time, a crossdresser, but now I realize, and believe that we are. Though I think it depends how far along the road I you feel you are. With the help of a few people here amoung many others, now I go out fully femme often and late last year I was elected President of a local CD support and social group.

      It is of course your personal choice if you feel you do belong in the LGBTQ+, even if you consider yourself hetro.

      This is of course my personal opinion as at one time I might have thought that a CD isn’t really part of that community, but if you feel you might belong then you likely do.

      Amy

      • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Amy Myers.
    • #743803

      Simply, I look at crossdressers as a form of being bigendered. There is life as a male and life as a female on whatever levels. Bigenders are part of the LGBTQ community with means CDs are too. The ones opposed to my bigendered theory, CDs can also fall under the genderfluid category. Genderfluids are definitely in the LGBTQ community.

    • #743816
      ChloeC
      Duchess

      I would have to say unequivocally, yes.

      From what I initially understood, and what I see here, cross-dressing is all over the place.  There are many reasons for it (and some probably not fully understood) and many ways to express it.

      My own belief is that if someone feels the need to express his or her personal gender identity in whatever way they feel comfortable or necessary, and that expression does not infringe or cause any kind of physical harm to another, then they should be free to do so, regardless of the personal feelings of any other person.

      Now we may need to mitigate that somewhat, or sometimes, based on the feelings we have for the needs of others who we care about, yet at the same time, those others should understand that they too may have to mitigate their own feelings if they truly care about us.

      And expressing (or needing to express it) is what makes us part of the LGBTQI+ community, but individually, only if one feels the desire to want to belong.

      You, we, should be welcomed to join, but it should never be required or demanded. The choice should always whether for the individual to join or not, it should never be the choice for the entire umbrella (or parts) to accept or not.

      Hugs, ChloëC

    • #742672
      Harriette
      Lady

      “didn’t we all crossdress for sexual excitement at one time or another?” Саманта

      Not me, so far.

    • #742835
      Wendie Cross
      Duchess

      “didn’t we all crossdress for sexual excitement at one time or another?”

      I wore my first dress when I was 14. I wasn’t sexually stimulated as I stood in front of the full length mirror. I remember thinking to myself, “This feels right, this feels like me.” I won’t deny that as my dressing progressed I got strong urges to seek out others who felt the same as I did sexually when I was dressed. Thus my bisexual desires were realized. Feeling pretty in a dress is my way of attracting “the same sex?” “the opposite sex?” “or just be the center of attention?” “all the above?” but the bottom line is, I’m just a guy who likes to wear dresses.

      If that makes me part of a community that flies a rainbow flag, so be it. I believe in the pursuit of happiness no matter what community I want to identify with.

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