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  • #664601
    Carmen Cruz
    Participant
    Registered On: September 12, 2021
    Topics: 33
    Replies: 341
    Has thanked: 504 times
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    If ya know what I mean? Because I absolutely without hesitation will deploy the social rights of women to wear whatever they want, combined with the rights of men to go in public without a shirt on.

    And those two things combined means it will be perfectly fine to walk in to most places with just my jean shorts on, heels, and no top. Hmmmmmmmm… looking forward to trying this out!!!!

Viewing 6 reply threads
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    • #664706
      Fredrika Jones
      Lady
      Registered On: February 24, 2021
      Topics: 1
      Replies: 417
      Has thanked: 509 times
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      Risky, but – you go, girl! I’m sure we’re all behind you!
      Fredrika Jones

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #664690
      Marg Produe
      Lady
      Registered On: March 16, 2022
      Topics: 0
      Replies: 148
      Has thanked: 472 times
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      Ooookay Carmen,  Maybe I’m getting this wrong but it scares me.  As an Intersex Person with a feminine body, I’ve had some of the experiences that you speak of.  For me, for the most part they were definitely not fun.  Some situations were actually dangerous.  Comments here from others about wackos, pigs, hassled and bizarre responses all ring true to me.  As a scientist  I think that this experiment might be like the ex-vulcanologists that took samples too close to the lava flow.   Please be very careful!   A feminine body can be like a double edged sword.   Marg

      • #664693
        Carmen Cruz
        Lady
        Registered On: September 12, 2021
        Topics: 33
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        Has thanked: 504 times
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        Absolutely agree with you.  I’m very into personal safety!!

        These are just thoughts I’m mulling over right now… Thinking out loud.  It’ll be a LONG while before I can even attempt something like this, and who knows if I’ll ever look feminine in the chest area without my pushup bra ànd body glue!!!!

        It more important than the scenario I speak of, is really the underlying questions of breasts in relation to man/woman.  I mean really, in the eyes of law and society, they should be exactly the same.  What exactly identifies “breasts” to be considered male breasts or female breasts, especially as it relates to transgender persons.

        If a cis man, presenting as cis decides to get breast implants, does that now exclude him from going shirtless in the eyes of any local laws and ordinances?

        If a woman has small breasts, or no breasts, if she doesn’t have a shirt on, is she still considered to be indecent?

        Im such an overthinker 🤣

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #664715
          Dee Bouhaire
          Lady
          Registered On: October 10, 2020
          Topics: 10
          Replies: 120
          Has thanked: 146 times
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          Excellent and valid arguments which just flag up our laws are mainly to stop male arousal at the sight of female breasts. Yet the west looks down on cultures that make women cover up

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #664719
            Haley Ann
            Duchess
            Registered On: October 12, 2020
            Topics: 6
            Replies: 293
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            At least in the US, you won’t get stoned to death for showing your body🇺🇸

            3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #664762
            Michaela Jane
            Lady
            Registered On: December 9, 2016
            Topics: 30
            Replies: 432
            Has thanked: 560 times
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            You might get shot though.  🙁

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #664773
            Haley Ann
            Duchess
            Registered On: October 12, 2020
            Topics: 6
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            Or they might, this is FL and we ALL carry! Sorry will the asshole be that ever decides that I should be the victim of their hate, I guess if you can be sorry while you are dead! Afraid to pull the trigger I am not, dead people NEVER have their day in court so better them than me. But on that note, I’m leaving my shirt on!

    • #664668
      Barb Wire
      Duchess - Annual
      Registered On: September 16, 2021
      Topics: 17
      Replies: 703
      Has thanked: 4013 times
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      Yup, I sure do know what you mean!

      I will NOT go topless in any public place anymore. I really could get hassled by law enforcement. Besides, everyone is taking videos nowadays and I don’t want to end up on YouTube.

      I appreciate the legal waters you’re testing, but please be careful.

      :Barb

      • #664688
        Carmen Cruz
        Lady
        Registered On: September 12, 2021
        Topics: 33
        Replies: 341
        Has thanked: 504 times
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        Yeah, totally understand.

        As of right now, it’s just a thought all mixed in with all the other things I think about.  In reality, it will probably be a long while before I can even consider such a thing.  I’m so flat chested now that I’m almost concave.  🤣

        I mean, just to get the illusion of cleavage now I’m literally trying to pull the skin on my lats to the center of my chest…. Sheesh!!!!!

        Little did that guy know he’s salivating over my darn back skin.  😂

        4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #664662
      Stevie Steiner
      Managing Ambassador
      Registered On: June 11, 2020
      Topics: 80
      Replies: 1950
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      Hey Carmen.  Iirc, in 2015 the law was passed in Canada that essentially ‘anywhere a man can go topless in public, so can a woman’.  We try to keep the extreme conservatives under control,  and I do love the equality of it all.

      You just never see it, simply out of fear for triggering a whacko.  There are far too many pigs out there.

      But I would love to be able to do it!!

       

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #664665
        Barb Wire
        Duchess - Annual
        Registered On: September 16, 2021
        Topics: 17
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        I wonder if our constables are even aware of this law?

        :B

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      • #664663
        Carmen Cruz
        Lady
        Registered On: September 12, 2021
        Topics: 33
        Replies: 341
        Has thanked: 504 times
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        I’m freakn moving to Canada!!!!!!!  See you soon Stevie!!!! 🤣😜

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #664678
          Diane Marie Rakers
          Lady
          Registered On: August 18, 2019
          Topics: 8
          Replies: 1092
          Has thanked: 1938 times
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          Good luck with winter. Unless it’s Vancouver.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #664691
            Carmen Cruz
            Lady
            Registered On: September 12, 2021
            Topics: 33
            Replies: 341
            Has thanked: 504 times
            Been thanked: 1982 times

            Yeah, I’m definitely not a cold weather person… Shoot, I get cold after 10 minutes in a 80 degree pool in Vegas!

            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #664645
      Саманта
      Managing Ambassador
      Registered On: January 21, 2018
      Topics: 620
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      In Indiana, “no shirt no shoes no service”.  No one can go in anywhere topless.  The only exceptions i can think of would be the pool & the nudie bar.

      I see what you’re trying to do tho.  i guess some of that to a point depends on what hrt does and if you change gender markers legally. i know in some states it’s not illegal for women to be topless in public.  if you seriously did this i’d think you’d likely get a bizarre response from people of both sexes.  More power to ya tho Carmen!

      5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #664655
        Carmen Cruz
        Lady
        Registered On: September 12, 2021
        Topics: 33
        Replies: 341
        Has thanked: 504 times
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        I’m sure you can see, my whole entire experience is to grow as a person and knowledge.  While I seem “sexual”, I stated before that this experience has nothing to do with sex.  I’m trying to get a deeper understanding of gender and how it correlates to public perception and/or actual law.

        For example, right now, in drab mode, I get called ma’am or sir at first sight.  So if there is a law of indecent exposure for women to go topless in public, then am I being illegal 50 percent of the time I leave my shirt off?  And what defines that?  Sorry, I have insatiable curiosity of everything lmao!!!!!

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #664659
          Саманта
          Managing Ambassador
          Registered On: January 21, 2018
          Topics: 620
          Replies: 1593
          Has thanked: 9305 times
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          oh i know, but not only gender presentation but also physical sex (ie gender maker) has a lot to do with how law is applied, unfortunately.  in some ways that;s changed a lot and for the better in the past 20 – 30 years, in other ways not and in some they’re trying to go backwards with it.  it will be an interesting experiment regardless!

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #664661
            Carmen Cruz
            Lady
            Registered On: September 12, 2021
            Topics: 33
            Replies: 341
            Has thanked: 504 times
            Been thanked: 1982 times

            Agreed.  Gender markers are what I’m really trying to figure out.  I’ve seen some larger men in my area go topless who have breasts virtually indistinguishable to a woman’s physically.  But nobody bags an eye.  But what if that person was a woman, with the exact same body… would everybody be like omg, breasts, illegal, call the cops.

            So then, is a gender markers the weight of a person?  I mean, what if that person wore a wig.  Would it then be “illegal”????

            So then if it is based on the wig, then are wigs a gender markers in the eyes of law?????

            Soanh darn question in my head.  I’d rather put my money where my mouth is and get some real answers.

            2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #664636
      Michelle McQueen
      Lady
      Registered On: June 14, 2021
      Topics: 27
      Replies: 1433
      Has thanked: 8843 times
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      Go for it Carmen. I think most all of us want real breasts if we could have them. They will develop slowly and you can probably get away shirtless in male mode for a while but if the HRT works well you won’t be able to go around like that in most places without being attacked or arrested. You know HRT makes changes you can’t reverse easily but if thats what you want then you already have a good start in feminine looks. You probably know HRT shrinks some parts too don’t you? Good luck sweetie!

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #664643
        Carmen Cruz
        Lady
        Registered On: September 12, 2021
        Topics: 33
        Replies: 341
        Has thanked: 504 times
        Been thanked: 1982 times

        Okay, more serious is you brought up the main discussion points that’s at the heart of this post.  What defines “real breasts” in society (I’m not talking about surgical, I’m talking about when is it defined a “woman’s breast”, and when is it defined a “man’s breast”.

        Is it the size?  The shape?  Small?  Large?  The ability to breastfeed?  Is it defined by one’s genitals?  Can the definition of “breasts” be legally defined by one’s use of HRT?  That’s really the point of this post.  While I lightheartedly wrote my post, it isn’t about sex.

         

        4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #664641
        Carmen Cruz
        Lady
        Registered On: September 12, 2021
        Topics: 33
        Replies: 341
        Has thanked: 504 times
        Been thanked: 1982 times

        All that you said are very much in serious consideration.  Thank you 🙂

        Females… want full equity, and I will fight for them.  Trans want to have equal rights with all genders as well, and I will fight for it.  Straight men, well, they just wanna see boobs all over the place and don’t really care about equal rights… So, it is what it is!

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #664646
          Michelle McQueen
          Lady
          Registered On: June 14, 2021
          Topics: 27
          Replies: 1433
          Has thanked: 8843 times
          Been thanked: 6964 times

          You are a very interesting person. Please keep us informed in your single fight for bare chested women and mens rights. You go girl!

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #664667
            Carmen Cruz
            Lady
            Registered On: September 12, 2021
            Topics: 33
            Replies: 341
            Has thanked: 504 times
            Been thanked: 1982 times

            Lmao!!!!  You’re so funny!  I loved your response… Freak’n made me cry, laughing cry, but cry it was… Lmao

            2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #664635
      Angela Booth
      Lady
      Registered On: August 1, 2020
      Topics: 9
      Replies: 1104
      Has thanked: 4191 times
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      Looking forward to the outcome…How much is bail in the U.S?

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #664639
        Carmen Cruz
        Lady
        Registered On: September 12, 2021
        Topics: 33
        Replies: 341
        Has thanked: 504 times
        Been thanked: 1982 times

        Well, I guess when cops show up, I’ll just be me, a guy.  They’d have to come up with some serious mumbo jumbo crazy law that says a man can’t be shirtless.  Honestly, that would be enough of an issue for me to dump some serious legal resources into challenging.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
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