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- Hello, girlsPassing is considered by many CDs as the highest goal for a CD. It’s when you go out in public and deceive everybody around you in believing that you’re a woman. In other words: you’re lying to everybody. Is it really worth the risk? Lets do a scene as to what could happen while passing. This might be extreme example and most likely will never happen, but their always that possibility it could. Say you’re at the mall. You’re dressed in a nice dress. You’re makeup is perfect. You female persona is good. Suddenly a good looking guy approaches you, showing an interest in you. But when he realizes that you’re not a woman but a guy, he becomes very negative and start to make a bad scene, drawing the attention of everybody around you with some supportive and some not supportive. Before you know it, you have a major scene going on, bring in security. The question is, who’s at fault? Is it the fault of the guy who showed an interest in you and then became negative when realizing you’re a guy? Or is it your fault for trying to deceive people in believing you’re a woman in the first place? Again, this is an extreme example and most likely will never happen. But is it really worth the risk? And is it proper to deceive people in believing you’re a woman? It’s another matter if you go out in public and make it clear to everybody that you’re a cross-dresser. In that case, you’re not really passing.I have nothing against passing. I’ve done passing many times, and there is a certain rush in doing passing. Today, however, I prefer to be relax and enjoying the company of friends around me who know what I am instead of being uptight while trying to deceive people. I’m curious as to how you girls feel about deceiving people while passing. Do you feel any guilt or just enjoy the rush?Edie
Hi Edie – good topic. As for me, at 6 feet tall barefoot I’m not sure I could pass – ever. But my joy in crossdressing is in imitating beautiful women. I adore them. I find trying to be like them as much as possible to be incredibly fun. And that involved doing all I can to really look and act and imitate them in all the ways I can. So yes, passing is, by default, a goal. Whether I can ever pull it off – debatable. But I love trying!
Mikey
Passing and wanting to pass as a lady; I hate this. Everyone thinks that they must be “passable” to be a great crossdresser. The real answer is that you don’t have to do any of that. Just be the best woman you can be, and own what you have! Do you think all these non-super model girls running around here are 100% perfect? No! None of them are! And thats okay but they all own their bodies. You must be yourself first!
Kisses, Samantha Roarke
Hi Edie;
While it’s a good topic, I think this statement and scenario smacks too much of victim blaming. What is wrong with passing (if you can manage it), and why are you then responsible for the obviously “not so good” guy’s response.
Now I can spin stories between the first “Hi” and the “involvement of security” that can paint it bad for either party, but there’s no reason that a CD who is expressing her femininity very well to be responsible for every person’s reactions.
Sorry, but it’s a bit of a trigger for me when someone says something like “You made me feel …. so I had to ….” We’re entitled to our feelings, but we’re responsible for everything we do because of them and the sooner we realize this as a person the sooner we can make the most of life. I’m never responsible for someone’s lack of maturity.
Now, if said, CD where to actively attempt to seduce such “good looking guy”, then she’s just asking for trouble, but just being in a mall is not a deceptive seduction attempt. If it was, there’d be a lot fewer rapists in jails as the “She was asking for it by being pretty” would be the only defence needed.
I reject any statement that passing implies a deception that requires any sort of censure. (And not just because I’ll never be able to do it without HRT either.)
-Molly
Hi Edie,
Good question; the common misperception is that we are all trying to deceive, and for evil purposes – which is rarely true. I wouldn’t presume to speak for all, but when I dress, I’m merely expressing my feminine nature, and I see the wig and makeup as (mainly) a desire to blend in with the crowd and avoid the unwanted attention which a man in a dress is likely to attract.And yes, I would really like to pass; after all, if I feel like a girl, why would I not also want to look like one and be accepted as such?
Bettylou
Regarding Samantha’s comment – Sorry if the passing business upsets you! I’m not trying to say it ought to be a goal for anyone but me, or that a CD who can pull it off is somehow “better” in some way. That’s like saying a guy is a better guy because he plays poker well, or can drink ten beers before throwing up! Maybe I misunderstood the question, but I thought it was just a simple ask if passing was important or not to all of us. Some it will be, some not. In my case, it’s a goal but i don’t really sweat over it. And if I don’t achieve it nothing bad will happen, from my point of view at least. So I hope that’s OK. Didn’t mean to offend.
Mikey
Hi Edie,
Passing is fine but cross dressing allows my feminine self to be let out. I’m almost 6 foot tall with broad shoulders and muscular legs. Not a lovely looking lady. After helping me with wig, make up and bright red nail polish a female friend once said, “there’s a big lady!” Well, it was true.
Alice
This is a good topic, thanks for putting it out there.
Personally I am not dressing as a woman or trying to pass as a woman, I am dressing as me in clothes that make me feel right. To the rest of the world this looks like a man dressing as a woman. I have been trying to figure out what I am, gender fluid, non-binary, transgender, bi-gender… I finally decided that I hate labels and I am just going to explore what it is that makes me feel right. I don’t need to passable to feel right, I don’t need to fool anyone that I am a woman, because I am not.
I feel that crossdressing is a way of expressing a part of my personality that is already expressed in other, more acceptable ways. And in order to express something I feel it is necessary to be expressing it to someone. To this end I feel a desire to be out in public dressed. Now comes the tricky part, society generally sees gender as binary, if people appear to fit this binary then everyone is happy. The moment anyone does not fit in it makes people uneasy. It’s human nature to be suspicious of things that don’t fit societal norms. Fortunately the “normal” can shift over time and we have seen this with things like the growing acceptance of same sex partnerships.
For me the only reason to try to pass would be to blend in, to look enough like a woman that people can walk past without taking a second look. If I were somehow more convincing and a guy showed me attention and then got upset I think that would be his problem and I think most folks in the part of the world I live in would back me up.
I think if I were to receive attention from a guy I’d have to assume him to be a chaser and I’d deal with him the same as I have dealt with women that make unwanted advances: polite conversation, then break out the pix of the wife and kids.
If I may murder a bit of a metaphor, “trying to pass” ist becoming a bit ‘passe”
Years ago, before whatever acceptance CD’s had in this world materialised, yes “passing” was a big deal, cos “the world” had not come as fast with accepting crossdressing as I contend it has today.
There was a time when gay men and women were stigmatized and that’s almost accepted in most (civilized) societies these days. Cross dressing to me is heading down the same path!!.
So when we CD’s present in public, (in my case a middle aged woman in skirt, blouse and low heels, out shopping), if and when I’ve been “clocked” as a “man in a dress”, most people dont care. Too busy with their own lives and most of their time have their heads in the phones too much to even take more than a fleeting glance…
Even if they do stare for more than a fleeting glance, the “normality” index is up enouh for it not to be a problem…
Happy dressing
Caty
Ha! Response is to Alice’s comment. I believe we share a similar problem – I make a really big girl! I keep telling myself I’ve seen ladies that are six feet tall and very muscular, and that some of them looked really good! But I was out once and walked into the ladies department at the DSW store, and OMG I was at least a foot taller than every woman there. I think they would have stared if I’d been a GG. The level of staring was quite a lot less than I actually thought was warranted! So yes, leave me my fantasy . . .
Mikey
I have learned to pass fairly well, though there always is the possibility of some kind of a negative reaction. Caty makes a good point, our world is much more accepting than has before, and if one is “spotted” its’ usually no big deal. Personally I have been the odd time, but it has never been a problem, women have been very complimentary actually.
For me its’ important not just to pass so that I blend in with the other middle aged ladies, but for me to transform myself temporarily into the woman I’d like to be. Rather like those of us that seek full transitioning to satisfy an inner need, if only for a few hours at a time.
Bad things can happen at any time, even in male mode I can get assaulted. Which to answer your question, it is always the fault of the person who makes a decision to assault another. Just like a woman who wears sexy and revealing clothes some will say shes’s “asking for it”, but she should never be assaulted.
Amy
I don’t think that passing is about being deceptive. It’s about doing one’s best to look and act like to the woman one feels like on the inside. In the “being approached by a good looking guy” scenario, it would be deceptive if one were to string the guy along once one knew his intentions. However, if one quickly lets the guy know the interest is not mutual and moves on, there is no deception and less potential for a bad situation to develop. Another option would be to play along and see exactly what the guy wants, if that is what one is into. Of course, that could be very risky. But, again, as long as one ultimately comes clean, there is no deception. To be clear, for that last option, I’m not talking about trying to see how long one could fool the guy. I’m just saying one might want to try get to know the guy rather than saying “I’m really a man.” the moment he shows interest.
The word deceiving is interesting. Isn’t the spouse or child abuser who goes out and appears as a decent person deceiving? The sinner who goes regularly to church on Sunday and acts holier than thou among friends and neighbors ? Such as the politician who acts that way (voting down legislation aimed as easing restrictions on gender related issues) and then is found either cheating on his wife or spending intimate time with members of the same sex?
The word Deceiving is a pejorative word and when used is most often meant as a put down, like somehow the deceiver is less than honest not only in what he/she is doing, but probably in other aspects of life as well. What is the intent of the deception (like cd)? To cheat others? To abuse people? To somehow use being seen as the opposite gender as something that can be transferred into material gain?
I would guess for most crossdressers (not those going through GRS because they are in the transitioning path to be regarded as females, so we can’t possibly consider them as trying to deceive anyone, in fact, remaining male looking while transitioning could be considered deception if one wants to apply the currently used definition of deceiving), who want to ‘pass’, I think it’s because we want to feel to our selves if only for a few moments that we can be the female we at times accept we are. That’s not deception and why would anyone think it is?
I’ve said this before, there is this huge spectrum of cross-dressing, all the way from maybe like wearing one little piece of clothing to fully dressing, with appliances, make-up, etc. and wanting to pass. If it’s an internal urge, I surely wouldn’t call it by the term deception, because who being supposedly deceived will come out with anything less than they had before they crossed paths with cross-dresser.
I am not denying that every cross-dresser is somehow above reproach, but I suspect there are a lot more who are terrified that if they are outed they will be ostracized by family, supposed friends, society. And now we tell them that ‘hey, you there, trying to dress as a woman, you’re just a lousy deceiver, go away’. I’m not one of those accusers.
Only if a person is trying to gain something at the expense of others would I ever use the word deception. And then, even, we certainly don’t call it deception when kids (or adults) dress up on Halloween and actually go door to door (or to parties) looking to score something for free.
If someone wants to pass, and it’s for the right reasons, I have no problem at all. I suspect I’ve seen a few cross-dressers who were just a little over the top, during holidays at out of the way restaurants. I suspect I’ve seen a lot more and never realized it as they were passing really well. I don’t consider that deception, I consider that ‘well done’. If only I could do it.
As an aside, I was looking up ‘cd and deception’ and came across a YT video of a crossdresser who looked extremely passable, only his complaint that he couldn’t be was he was 6’1″ and had muscles. I didn’t, but I should have messaged him to look up Jenny Finch. She (cis-female) is 6’1″ and a former athlete with muscles and is gorgeous. Personally, I think it’s more in your own bearing and self-confidence, than in overdoing dressing or make-up, or attachments. But like the Lion, I have no nerve.
Hi Edie , i guess for me there’s 2 levels of my crossdressing / gender expression . My wife is aware of it all.
Daily I wear toe nail polish , feminine bracelets & anklets , panties , daily I don’t hide that I’m male ( tradesman work clothes ) but I express my feminity . My summer casual clothes are casual female shorts , home & public , girls hoodies/ tracksuit in winter. My gym wear is female leggings , shorts & trainers . I openly express my female side daily through my body language , mannerisms , posture etc also.
Secondly I have 4 full professional CD makeovers a year , then I aim to ” pass” & apart from my voice I believe I could . I guess it’s the best of both worlds & fulfills my feminine needs every day & every 3 months..
💐💐 Tiff
I don’t often try very hard for the most part, but for those that strive to pass thats a personal choice that you most certainly have a right to do.
There are of course exceptions to all of this, those who rewrite their own entire books to purposely decieve others for monetary or status gains.
CD’s are most certainly not the only ones out there ‘playing a part’. Wearing your borrowed or only business suit to a job interview, the person wearing athletic wear and joggers who can’t touch their toes, the well packaged young lady (gg) displaying a pair of DD’s but owning only B’s, the person covered head to toe in camo that can’t even swat a fly, the 3rd time bride wearing purity white, etc. etc.
The reasons for doing this vary widely, are personal and it really doesn’t matter, it may help them feel different (better) if only for a short period of time. We and they aren’t responsible for the thoughts and perceptions of others. If the other person is angered because they feel like a fool for judging a book merely by its cover, they did that, and need to control their outward impulses and direct them back at themselves.
I understand where you are coming from as I too have thought about this. But I often find myself coming back to this which is just me personally. Going out and passing isn’t deceit it is just part of who I am. If some bloke takes a liking to me then dislikes the fact I’m not biologically female then that’s on him not me. Making a scene is not necessary as I didn’t put on these clothes and go out to attract him I went out wearing what I did because I like my clothes. This rings alarm bells a little in a similar vein to how women are often told that wearing certain types of clothing means they deserved to get bad attention and should just expect it.
Charlotte.
It’s no lie. Harietta is me and I am her. In public those are my legs, my hair, my eyes and my lips. How I choose to show, dress, reveal and enhance those physical aspects may be outside of some current archaic social construct, but it is my business alone. Your imagined situation is easily avoided and easily handled.
Have a historical look at baroque male fashion and get back to me.
I go out for me. When out and dressed, I think about having a wonderful time. I once saw a cross dresser at a bar in SF who was trying so hard to pass that I felt she forgot to enjoy the experience. To me it’s about the experience and not so much about the passing thing. This seems to work for me as I have never had any problems talking to others. Z
Hi there,
Well…given that I am a SIGNIFICANTLY OLDER CD/TV who is into fetish dressing (thighboots, tight laced corsets, huge boobs, hobbleskirts, long gloves, heavy makeup, big hair wigs and furs) all combined with tight though non-painful “LOVEBONDAGE” scenarios…there is no way I would “pass” as such. The experience of dressing is what I seek and am seeking those near me who understand and need this in their lives. I have modified a bondage chair for use and so I dress and self-bind after I walk the pooch for the last time late at night. I have gone out of my sidewalk “on parade” so to speak and teetered up and down, teetering as quickly as possible back inside if a car approached my street. I am of course seeking those women (of any gender – grins) who understand the feelings which one receives when we engage in this behavior…and thus anyone interested and reasonably nearby (a few hours by car) are welcome to contact me. I am located in northern Virginia, just a short bit south of Washington, DC. and waiting for friends.
For me, I always prefer “passing”. I’ve kind of pulled it off several times with comments I have gotten, professions of love and have even been followed and aggressively pursued. That was not so great, but it also taught me that some girl’s go through this all the time. Truth be told though, I was never close enough to those who wanted to get to know me very well.
I sometimes wondered what would happen if we were close and they found out I was not what I initially appeared to be. I think it’s best I don’t know.
Hi Edie It is a good topic and one that should be discussed.. When i first started going out in public in my late teens i would go to places that every one knew who or what we were. I took a cis girl friend to a club once and alot of men thought she was one of us. She did not know how to feel about it. It all depends on how you dress if you want to dress sexy and cute you will attract a man’s eye .All woman know that. They learned that in their early teen life. We know it also. So just dress appropriately for the occasions. Society knows or at least as heard of people like us. We are trying help people understand and accept us. That is a common complaint amongst cis woman. Our cis sisters want we want to be able to dress and feel cute and pretty with may be a touch of sexy . We all know what attracts the male eye so the same applies to us as it applies to cis woman . .Just be safe and smart when expressing your self. You never know whose eye you may of caught. Stay safe and healthy ladies and enjoy your feminity it is what makes us special luv Stephanie
Molly,Thank you.I,too,reject any statement that passing implies deception.It is not my intention to deceive anybody.Yes I try to pass and hopefully I do.I try to be the best lady I can,but my voice can give me away and if it does,so what.Ladies voices ,some ,not all,deepen with maturity.I do not attract attention and am always aware of what is happening around me.I apologize if I have offended any one but ladies please enjoy your femininity and be self aware.
Darling, you are not at fault if someone else has a problem!
I think passing is the ultimate goal for many, but it’s really not as important as making an effort, and maintaining a positive attitude.
The sheer joy I feel at being Laura, and choosing good places to be Laura in gives me confidence and positivity that I know people pick up on, from the many positive interactions I’ve had.
People seem to be fascinated by someone who is “brave” enough to just be themselves, and often start conversations on really positive notes like “I love your outfit”.
Passing would be great, but really, don’t get hung up on it. Just create an image that you’re happy with, which wouldn’t be unusual for a GG, and chances are, you will not be the centre of attention unless you want to be.
When I go out in a dress that’s wall to wall sequins, honey, I expect to be surrounded by admirers.
But I wouldn’t wear it to a shopping mall!
Love Laura
I have never felt any guilt and I’m ‘way beyond a rush. I am always nicely dressed and never in any significantly provocative way. Many of my skirts, skorts and shorts are 4”-6” above the knee, but that’s about it.
I do not attempt to attract any male attention, but it has happened a few times. I’m Probably pretty decent up to 8’ to 10’ away. Closer than that does raise the question as to gender. However, any responses from me are without any sort of acceptance of the other person’s intentions.
The most recent situation was at a collector car auction near my home. They do it twice a year, February and November, and I’ve missed one in the 4 years that I’ve been here. Sometimes my wife goes with me, but this time she did not. Anyway, I was nicely dressed: skort, blouse, full jewelry and makeup, and with my usual wide-brimmed hat (I rarely wear wigs) and big sunglasses. While the auction takes place under a big tent, most of the cars are in the open air. I typically take lots of photos and I wandered over to look at a very nice early 50’s Studebaker. As I’m walking around the car and taking photos, a guy walked up and he started talking. As we talked, my responses were nowhere near being open-ended, but I did get the sense of where he was going. Finally, he ceased being subtle and asked if I was attached. I said yes, for going on 15 years now. That cooled his ardor, as the phrase goes, and was the end of the conversation. No way he could say that I led him on when my part of the conversation stuck to the cars and the auction and nothing was said that could be construed as wanting attention.
For full disclosure, I identify as transgender, non-binary. I am dressed 80% to 90% of the time when I leave my house. The rest of the time I present as my male self for convenience. I see no point in taking an hour and a half to get ready for an errand that takes less that 30 minutes. I have no plans to physically transition, but my social transition is essentially complete. The vast majority of people here know me as DeeAnn and few have ever met Don. Also, as time goes on, I seem to identify more as lesbian.
While some folks may attempt to solicit attention from men, my guess is that most don’t. However, I do suspect that if approached, they may appear to be very flattered. That might be construed as being receptive…
I am living no lie girls. I now dress very well. I almost always pay for pro makeup and I am rarely clocked. I used to get comfort in knowing that I looked good enough so no one would connect the “feminish” image they see with the man if they knew him.
I have, on several occasions run into people who absolutely should have known my man self and they said nothing. I share an elevator in MOntreal with a woman I dated twice?
Now I am really confident like a MIcheal Buble song. I am living no lie when I appear in clothes, hairstyle, makeup and scent that a real and vital part of myself prefers from time to time….you just haven’t met me yet.
But isn’t it true, we all know GG’s who have trouble passing as their god given sex.?
I’ve gone through several phases in dressing. First there is in the privacy of my home. Next is wanting to cautiously venture out. Third is engaging others, usually salespeople. Then being able to go any where. And finally being with other crossdressers. There is something so special about being with the gurls. We share a hidden secret and a common desire. It’s only among other cross dressers that I can act truly girly, frills and all. So at the end of the day I’d much rather be with all of you in person. I’ll settle for zoom until then.
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