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  • #176989
    stephanie plumb
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    Registered On: November 17, 2018
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    For many “passing” is the Holy Grail.  I know it was for me.  Thinking I wouldn’t pass was a barrier to going out, and a confidence destroyer. When I did go out I was racked with fear and avoided people.

    Then I read Sa-man-tha’s  post ‘On the myth of “passing”‘,  Laura’s Lovetts reply, and Gabriela’s ‘standing ovation’ reply. I urge you, if you haven’t read it, then do so, and if you have, take another look. There are lot’s of good insights from other girls too.

    It got me to thinking and I realised my search for The Grail was holding me back. Trying for perfection was too high a goal for me to reach.  The word ‘acceptance’ kept recurring in my thoughts and made me question what I was actually trying to achieve ……. which was to go out as myself without worrying that I wasn’t good enough.

    “Passing” and “Being accepted” are the same thing aren’t they?   Well no – the difference is in emphasis. I no longer think “My face is too masculine, I will not pass”.    Now I think “Am I presenting myself as female?  Is the overall look acceptable.”

    BINGO! It was a revelation.  If at a glance I look more like a female than a male, then I will be accepted as female.  Of course you have have to get the basics right – your dress, walk and mannerisms must be feminine.  But the real key is confidence and attitude. You must believe in yourself. Too be accepted means doing the best you can with what you’ve got.

    And it works!  I now go out with a lot more confidence – it’s a work in progress – but I have made a major leap forward in my journey towards my goal of being out as myself without fear or worry, going where I want, and not avoiding contact with people. I owe a huge debt of gratitude to Sa-man-tha and others, they have literally changed my life.

    So don’t agonise over wether you are attractive and feminine enough, just be female enough!  After all the Holy Grail probably isn’t a bejewelled gold chalice, it is mostly likely a plain clay cup of the sort that could be found in a carpenters house.

    I have taken enough of your time. Go read Sa-man-tha’s post.  I will have more to say about the ‘how acceptance happens’ in a later post.

    Stephanie P.

    Link to Sa-man-tha’s post:

    https://www.crossdresserheaven.com/forums/topic/on-the-myth-of-passing/

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    • #381891
      Kay Anderson
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      Registered On: June 1, 2020
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      I have mentioned many times that I am into self help. In our journey of healing, we learn a lot about our true selves. I have a deep wound of not feeling good enough. This feeling often results in trying to achieve unreachable perfection, which can overlap into my Kay life. When I get into feeling not good enough, then I am never happy with how I look and fall into thinking that I will never pass. I am getting much better at recognizing this and make time for self nurturing. A therapist I went to told me that everything in our life is a gift, we just need to figure it out. There are several gifts in my wound, and I will save those for another post or article.

      Another trap I fall into is when I was around 12 y.o., I found a magazine with a picture of Raquel Welch in it. I cut the picture out and saved it. I would gaze at the picture wishing that I looked like that. At 12 y.o., I had a dysphoria of not wanting to be me, and didn’t like myself.

      There are many traps we snag ourselves in. We are all different and it helps to find our way out. Be happy and comfortable with who you are. That old saying is worth repeating: you are good enough and always have been good enough! That you are not is a terrible lie we are telling ourselves. Look in the mirror and be kind to yourself!

      ⚘ Kay

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    • #381861
      Kay Anderson
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      Dear Stephanie,

      Thank you for reviving this wonderful old post. Yes, things have been a little quiet around here. This post is before my membership started and I love reading all the responses! This subject is very thought provoking and I will post my response in a little while after gathering my thoughts.

      ❤ Kay

       

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    • #381852
      Seren
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      Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I must’ve missed Sammy’s post but I know that girl always talks sense so I’ll check it out too.

      Seren xx

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #381851
      stephanie plumb
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      Registered On: November 17, 2018
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      Its been a bit quiet round here lately, so I thought I would throw this back into the pot. Apologies to you girls whose replies have also been brought back.  Sa*man*tha will no doubt tell me off if i am doing wrong by resurrecting old posts without the permission of the original replier’s.

      “You shall not pass” – a famous quote from The Lord of the Rings.

      My own view is that “passing” is an unobtainable goal for all of us.  Being “accepted” however IS attainable for all of us. I have now reached that lesser grail.

      Stephanie P.

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    • #178629
      Jennifer Swanson
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      Registered On: April 20, 2019
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      In my experience outside, men tend to ignore me and women tend to be friendlier.  Men aren’t sure what to make of a cd and it may threaten their masculinity.  Women tend to be more receptive as they probably dont feel threatened by a cd.  Two women came over and sat with me while we were waiting for a show to start.  We had a wonderful conversation.  I think passing means to be willing to engage receptive people.  It’s really a lot of fun.  It works really well in women’s clothing stores.  Thanks for all your responses and this is a great thread.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #178650
        stephanie plumb
        Participant
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        There seems to be a HUGE disconnect between the acceptance of  CD’ers and TG’ers etc between the States and the UK.  Over here we are much less able to mingle publicly and certainly outside the big cities such as London and Manchester the social supporting infrastructure such as clubs and bars are almost non existent.

        In my home town there is only one gay pub that I know of and I certainly wouldn’t be welcome there in femme mode!  Brits are more reserved and at present much less accepting of different sexual orientations. It’s changing though… slowly. Of course I may be wrong , in the big cities things may be more liberal, but  I have no experience of this.

        So, alas, the type of interactions you mention are not possible for me unless I travel up to London where I expect there are CD accepting clubs and bars.

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        • #178661
          Anonymous
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          You are right Stephanie the UK is very reserved. There are glimmers of hope.  I was in Manchester shopping area yesterday and so many same sex people holding hands without fear. Also in the village you would be able to dress and have a night out without judgement.

          But I wonder if we only hear of the successes stories from the states. It is a vast country as opposed to our postage stamp of land and so there maybe more room to express yourself. I live in north Manchester in a industrial heartland, heavily populated with old fashioned views, you would not reveal yourself here. I don’t know if I’m correct but it could be similar in the Rust Belt in the States, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Youngstown forgive me if my geography is out. Would love to hear the experiences of girls in these areas. Then there is the Bible belt and the Deep South how do people fare in these areas, again I would love to know.

          Hopefully Steph we are breaking the British veneer one gurl at a time. Enjoy your dressing.

          Donna.

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          • #179250
            Willow Flare
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            The states are huge, and acceptance very much varies. We are generally safe in most big cities, but I still would have hesitated to go out dressed in any Texas city other than Austin, for instance.

            I encourage everyone to try and go out, but at the end of the day I won’t go anywhere alone and won’t go anywhere I haven’t scoped and judged safe while visiting in boymode, even tho I live in a very liberal and accepting city nowadays.

            Edit: And don’t forget that LGBTQ here has a history of fighting back, see the Stonewall Riots. Finding that group that will defend you is generally enough to keep you safe.

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    • #178316
      Toni Kohls
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      I’m very new to wanting to actually go through with dressing. I have been scrutinizing gg wardrobes features gait etc thinking how can I pull this off? I then thought I’m looking at the ‘outliers’ for lack of a better term. The ones that 99% of gg measure themselves against. They wake up and their hairs perfect anything they wear fits perfect.

      I’m straight and I’ve been with enough women to say that every gg is insecure about something and their body has something masculine. I had a gf with great legs butt boobies face but she would obsess over her ‘manly’ shoulders. Another woman had huge Fred flinstone feet. Confidence and accentuating the positive is the most important things.

      Shoot for the stars but maybe move the goalposts.

      • #178330
        Anonymous
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        Hello Toni. Nice to meet you. 🙂

        you make an excellent point. Very few cis-females are what society would call really gorgeous. Way too many other females and many cd/tgs try to look like them, usually with not a lot of success.

        Most of the beautiful women I know are those who are not trying to look like somebody else anymore. They have found their own sense of style. True, many will still follow the ebbs and flows of fashion but within their own style.

        That is something worth trying. Being your own feminine version of you! Learning to find what are your good points and the things you should avoid. Right colors, styles, etc. And then build on top of that.

        Gaby 💜

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        • #178332
          Toni Kohls
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          I agree Gaby and nice to meet you too pretty lady ❤️

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #178212
      Sa•man•tha
      Founder
      Registered On: January 21, 2018
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      Passing.  Here’s how I think of it.  And I’d hazard a guess that maybe 3% of us have the ability to truly pass under any given circumstance. Situationally the odds may increase, but most of us have “tells” of some sort.

      Passing is kind of like a box, that some can fit into easier than others, due to being slighter of build, finer of feature, etc.  Acceptance on the other hand, allows those who have a harder time fitting into the box to not even need the box.  It also allows you to be more honest.  This acceptance can come from within or from without and either kind can lead to the other.  Passing depends upon the views of others as to what a woman should be, acceptance depends more upon your own self image or expression.

      5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #178233
        stephanie plumb
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        Well put Samantha!    What a wonderful way with words you have. I wish I had your ability to be so succinct yet “hit the nail on the head.”  You have “hammered it into the post.”  (pun unintented, but kind of fits… lol).

        I know what it is I am trying to say but tend to ramble on somewhat.  I think I did get my point across, in a kind of verbose way, in this post, but girl did it take some time!

        Stephanie P

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    • #177694
      Dame Veronica Graunwolf
      Member
      Registered On: May 8, 2017
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      “PASSING”…….just what does that mean and entail???? To me….Passing meant that you moved on to the next level….”You were acceptable enough to move on to the next level on the ladder” ! Passing in manufacturing means…it is OK enough to satisfy specifications. Of course it was always preferrable to be better than passing and reaped better rewards.

      “Passing” in the CD world…………acceptable enough to be judged as a female. BUT, are there any levels above that. Is the ulimate level a ……Hubba Hubba…what a Broad???? Descriptive verbs are so very desireable these days…..where do we stand?

      If you have time…..please drop me a note and give me your definition of “PASSING”. Do you think this is as far as we can go? Oh, I know….Transgendering is the leap of faith, or am I looking too far into the future? I am reminded of Spocks reply to Kirk about not being able to make silk purses out of sows ears. Spoke said….It is simply a matter of molecular re-distribution! Step into the transporter and out again as Miss Universe???

      I think I will enter the Miss Aura Competition…at my age….it is not far away.

      Dame Veronica

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      • #177875
        stephanie plumb
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        Registered On: November 17, 2018
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        Thanks….  I will need a little time to put the words together re: the definitions (as I see it) of”passing” and “acceptance”.   Fascinating topic.  Right now I am working on a post about the way being “accepted” works at the human behaviour level.

        I have found the process of getting right the thoughts buzzing in my head about the more esoteric aspects of CD surprisingly difficult, and time consuming, to get into a post I am happy with. Of course I don’t have this problem with post’s about panties though!

        So… I will be in contact

        Stephanie P

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        • #177913
          Nikki SiDee
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          Registered On: February 4, 2019
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          When I dress in women’s clothing (crossdressing) do I look like a woman or do I look like a man in women’s clothes? If the answer is you look like a woman then you have been perceived, envisioned, identified, recognized, etc., etc., as a female (passed or accepted, if you will), “passing”. Seems simple enough to me anyway.

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          • #177968
            stephanie plumb
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            You are missing the point. The “holy grail” of passing is what stops a lot of girls getting out there. They fear they are not good enough to pass as female. My point is that they don’t have to be good enough, they just have to have the confidence and know how to create the illusion of being female such that others accept them as female at a glance and  don’t pay them any further attention, so they slip under the radar.  It gives a girl the ability to wander about ‘hiding in plain sight’.  It is wonderfully liberating. It works for me.

            5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #177668
      stephanie plumb
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      I could probably dress like an older fat women that you need to look twice at to realize it’s a women. With that in mind I think I could build up confidence etc to do it to some level.

      My next post about ‘how acceptance works’ (working title,may change to something sexier) will explore this issue and hopefully give you the confidence to try again.

      It can be done –  the principle is to “hide in plain sight” – as the human brain sees what it wants to see.

      Stephanie P.

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      • #177695
        Dame Veronica Graunwolf
        Member
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        Hi Stephanie………a good “cameoflage job” doesn’t hurt either.

        Dame V.

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    • #177583
      Kelly Terry
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      Registered On: February 26, 2018
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      Not passing/been had is one reason I’m staying home. I did once walk around in a big parking lot with lots of cars and given that it was dark around 1am I didn’t expect anyone to be there to see me. I put on some new high heels boots and did some rounds when I suddenly heard “you damn freak” screamed out in a not so nice female voice from a car somewhere close by. I was almost back at my car and had planned to try some other shoes but decided to just drive home. Now this was a dark night and the only female thing I had was the high heel stiletto boots, I wonder what would happen if I been fully dressed in daylight and meet her face to face, if high heels = freak then I guess she would send me to some institute or so.
      I know I can never look like that sexy girl everyone want to look like but I do know it is a lot of girls that look like guys and I started to think I could probably dress like an older fat women that you need to look twice at to realize it’s a women. With that in mind I think I could build up confidence etc to do it to some level. Now next issue is of course what friends and family would say and while I don’t think anyone would cancel the relation or so I’m not ready to take that step.

    • #177435
      Willow Flare
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      I am concerned about passing because when I don’t it makes me very uncomfortable. I don’t do it for anyone else, but it is important that I see the girl when I look in the mirror

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #177457
        stephanie plumb
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        The problem with mirrors .. and even worse in photographs….. is that we tend not to see our feminine image but focus on our flaws and masculine features. We precondition ourselves to be too self critical.  What others will see at a glance  is not what we see, because we look with the preconceived notion that we will not look feminine enough.  The best snapshot you can get ( and what others see) is that surprise image of yourself in a mirror.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
        • #177459
          Willow Flare
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          And I am generally happy with how I pass now 🙂 The few edges I still have while dressed are either not going away, or would require me to do HRT, which isn’t likely since I have no desire to transition.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #177491
            stephanie plumb
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            Goes for me too. Though I haven’t really gone down the full makeup route. I tried once and looked as if I had escaped from a circus.    I tell myself “You don’t look half as bad as you think you do.”  Which = “you actually look twice as good as you think you do!”

            and “No one is going to scrutinise you half as much as you do.”    Which =  “They are not really interested in you.”

            5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #177430
      Bobbi
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      I really couldn’t care less if I “pass” or not. I’m not here for a man to judge me.
      I never have, & never will need a man’s (or anyone else’s) approval to be myself.
      We are all beautiful, and unless you’re a “parking receipt” you don’t require validation!

      • #178458
        Toni Kohls
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        This right here! I want to look good and pass but I could care less. Buying my 20+ pairs of panties and some starter stuff today proved that I could care less how people look at me. When I finally get done up and go out for the first time, and every time after it’s going to be about me. Point at me laugh, effff off don’t care. Toni wants to see the world, she’s waited 41 years and she could care less about approval. Even though I’m in men’s clothes I’m practicing my walk. I feel pretty and I feel sexy and isn’t that all that counts? ❤️

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #177672
        stephanie plumb
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        Lucky you!  But it doesn’t apply to most of the rest of us.  Many have too much to lose if outed.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #177029
      Anonymous
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      I have no confidence I could pass to the outside in daylight, but a world of confidence as a feminine lover and partner inside my home………..a complete metamorphosis……I’m not immediately seeking to run out the door, but all that I’ve read and seen on this site over the last few weeks, tells me to ‘suck it up’ and do it……….but only among others like Mikki…………..on the steamy side of the universe………how much fun would that be……….!!! Or that pageant where everyone got dressed up in their formal outfits !!!

      Mikki

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #177003
      Max Garcia
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      Confidence in one of the sexiest features of a woman. Even is she is scared on the inside, if she exudes confidence, the world is hers for the taking.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
      • #177570
        Bobbi
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        The world is like a 67′ Corvette convertible, & being confident, is like someone handing you the keys!

        4 users thanked author for this post.
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