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    • #664899
      Araminta Purdy
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      Registered On: January 23, 2020
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      I am pretty sure I mentioned some thoughts on this, but I do not recall all of it.

      One definition of ‘passing’ is, “The ability of a person to be regarded as a member of an identity group or category different from their own”, but what ‘passing’ really means is a sense of movement particularly passage across a barrier or past some significant element of progress.

      There is a rather nice discussion at:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(sociology)

      This grounds the term as originating during slavery in North America when persons of partially African descent could ‘pass’ as white. Therefore, I suspect, able to ‘pass’ into more reasonable communities.

      When the term when transmitted to the lexicon of cross-dressing is something I am uncertain of. I do not recall seeing it in Fin de siècle publications in which I might expect the term although many of the quainter, and long expired, terms are often given as an exhibition of one’s deep, understanding of these matters. While cross-dressing (and related) events (balls for example) occurred as early as the mid-to-late 19th century, perhaps the 1920s is a good, theoretical premise for that redefinition.

      At:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passing_(gender)

      Here we have, “In the context of gender, passing is when someone is perceived as a gender or sex other than the sex they were assigned at birth.”

      Usually when I quote these things I do so not because they support my premises but because I agree with the fundamentals of the statement. Without going into great depth, ‘assigned at birth’, refers to a rather barbaric, surgical practice foisted on neonates in the 50s and 60s due primarily to medical ignorance and laziness combined with a heavily paternalistic society. When the persons upon whom this revolting practice were old enough to understand the cruelty of having their sex ‘assigned-at-birth’ and were able to express their dissatisfaction the recognition of the unethical nature of the practice led to its abandonment. There were, at the time, still those who used terminology more to impress than to convey actually useful knowledge. This was also a time when it was argued that sex and gender are the same things based on some rather slender arguments and questionable methodology. The term, ‘assigned-at-birth’, survived, not as it was originally meant, but assigning a neonate a sex (which had existed some time prior to birth) and consequently a gender (which is behaviorial therefore relative to one’s personality and a neonate has no personality to speak of; well, ‘cute’, yes, which mollifies some midnight diaper changes.) I hope that I am clear that I feel that the phrase “assigned-at-birth” is not only pretentious but it is also inaccurate. Perhaps they would like to ‘assign’ a vocation at the same time?

      There is also the sense of deliberate mendacity. Of subterfuge! Of dishonesty! I had not thought of it before but this may not be so far-fetched. Bear with me! It goes to distinguishing between a ‘female’ and a ‘woman’ and which of these (or both) one really wishes to be.

      ‘Passing’ morphed into a wider usage from the specifically racial ‘passing as white’ to engage wider, marginalized groups.

      “Passing typically involves a mixture of physical gender cues, for example, hairstyle or clothing, and certain behavioral attributes that tend to be culturally associated with a particular gender. Many[who?] experienced cross-dressers say, regardless of a person’s presentation, confidence is more important for passing than the physical appearance.”

      Specifically those whose Sexual Preference did not accord with that exhibited by the majority of their sex. (‘Passing for straight!’) Just as in the case of racial presentation this practice was usually a means of ameliorating one’s social situation and, at times, even a matter of survival.

      “The failure to pass oneself off as the desired gender is referred to as being “read”. The event of being read is known as “a read” or “being clocked”.”

      The problem I have with such statements is the ambiguity it contains. By ‘gender’ is behavourial patterns and attributes referred to or are they erroneously conflating gender and sex.

      My main interest in gender is the nature of femininity and it is largely the presentation of femininity that occupies my thoughts. I recognize that femininity derives from the collection of cues and conventional symbols that identify one as female and that these are often varied according to tastes and conventions to express varying levels of sexual availability. That is, femininity is a part of Beauty expressing specific variations of female situations.

      This is why the pretence may be dishonest. Not consciously so but still deliberately. That is, some males attempt to convince others that they are female. As we know, this is possible in many instances (because human anatomy is so variant that ‘female’ characteristics, such as relative size of hirsuteness, can be evident in both sexes), but often the experienced observer can identify the distinctive features.

      For example, younger or less experienced cross-dressers still draw upon their sexualized interpretations of femininity to create overly objectified versions of themselves as feminine.

      To me, it seems clear that within many males is the apparently instinctive, probably genetically induced, desire to be feminine = Beauty = equals sexually attractive. Many interpret this as a desire to be female but sites such as this have allowed a colloquy that demonstrates through enumerable anecdotes maturity often brings the recognition that it is an authentic presentation of femininity that is desired. Possibly sexual, true, but ameliorated by sophistication (knowledge and experience) and taste (sort of aesthetic conventionality).

      This is one reason why I make such an issue about distinguishing ‘sex’ from ‘gender’. One example I often give is what if a person does ‘pass’? That is, they are able to feminize themselves so authentically that they are assessed as being female in 99.9% of the time. Let’s say that a young male, highly excitable by the presence of an attractive (i.e., feminine) female sees such a person. Their libido is going into high gear of course. We would refer to such a male as being ‘heterosexual’. ‘Heterosexual’ basically is often held to mean ‘opposite sex’ especially in terms of being consistently to the ‘opposite’ sex. The sexes, however, are not opposites. Neither are the three (or four) genders, for that matter. The sexes function co-operatively for reproduction and part of the paleologic purpose of anatomical gender is to make identification of a suitable partner possible. Not only such identification but also the evaluation as to a person’s suitability as a means of continuing one’s genetic heritage. The assumption of clothing was likely accompanied with the adoption of accessories and cosmetics intended to augment one’s masculinity or femininity.

      So, our young Don Juan sees a beautiful, young lady, is interested and expresses that interest only to learn that the pulchritudinous damsel is male. Since he was attracted to another male he must be ‘homosexual’, right? There are many who say so. Homophobia is so integrated into many societies that a terror of being thought to be ‘homosexual’ can result in a violent or at least derogatory reaction. But we know he is not ‘homosexual’ as it was not the young lady’s sex that was the basis for attraction.

      Equally, if one is ‘heterosexual’ (attracted to the other sex) then it is inferred that it is the sex of the other person that is the basis of sexual attraction. That is to say, the young lothario, above, being ‘heterosexual’, is necessarily attracted to femaleness and, therefore, to all female humans. We know that is not true. Rather one is attracted to attractive (i.e., feminine) persons regardless of their sex.

      So, I would suggest a whole, new (well not that new) concept of ‘passing’: that of a male presenting in an authentic and aesthetically pleasing (or not according to one’s sense of artistry) feminine persona. Not necessarily being taken as female not necessarily intended to be taken as female. In the rather frequent desire of cross-dressers to present themselves on-line through imagery I see that many no longer are concerned with being ‘female’ but with being ‘women’. Nor is being attracted to a feminine male necessarily regarded as being ‘homosexual’. The term I use for a male attracted to femininity is ‘gynecophilic’ (sexually attracted to womanliness (femininity)).

      While the concept of ‘passing’ has validity I do not believe (based on the etymology and prior usage of the term) it is accurate. I use, in a generalized manner, the concept of ‘authenticity’ (or as some express it ‘dressing appropriately’). The also carries the concept of ‘completeness’. Not just under-dressing but everything; shaving, scents, hair, you know, everything.

      Female ‘impersonators’ (drag queens) do not, to me, usually represent ‘authentic’ femaleness although their gender presentation (generally stylized to the point of caricature although still evocative) is undoubtedly feminine.

      Hence my recent interest is the concept of ‘male femininity’. That is males expressly being feminine but without the intention of being identified as female. One phenomenon is that decreasing usage of breast forms or augmentations. I always felt that some degree of ‘chest curvage’ was essential to establishing a presentation of authentic femininity but often simply having a youthful (not necessarily that youthful either) and healthy physiology is s sufficient basis for femininity. This appears to be at least subliminally recognized amongst younger persons, mostly, and increasingly so. Similar indications suggest to me that the concept behind ‘passing’ as a cross-dressing is dropping the element of dishonesty or subterfuge and there is a need for a more accurate term.

      I do not necessarily include those ladies who feel the need to transition fully (essentially transiting from a masculine to feminine physiology) and strongly need to be seen, identified as female and to live as and feel that they are female. Sometimes they do not necessarily feel the need to feminize to the same degree as ‘cross-dressers’. These are matters for another, lengthy, discussion.

      To me, the process of feminization is ‘athenising’ (as Athena bedecked Pandora with attire and accessories) with a view to being (not just presenting) objectively as well as subjectively a woman (not necessarily female). Thus ‘athenising’ is a matter of gender (and subsequently feminine attraction) practiced by some people, some of whom are female and some are male. Athenists seek an element of authenticity that is conducive to acceptability. That is, some who presents as a woman effectively can be treated and regarded as a woman because then social expectations are applicable and one can comfortably predict an athenist’s behaviour. That there are numerous persons capable of achieving the creation and social integration of feminine personas is, to me, evident.

      Araminta.

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      • #665209
        Holly Morris
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        Hi Araminta. I love the detail and depth to your response. You’ve obviously given this topic a lot of thought. Do you have any published research on this? If not, I’d love to discuss more offline if you’re so inclined.

        Hugs,

        Holly

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        • #665304
          Araminta Purdy
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          Registered On: January 23, 2020
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          Hi, Holly

          I spent 9-10 years is searching for answers to the question as to why I cross-dressed. In that search I found that the relevant concepts as expressed in the terminology developed over 150-years tended to diverge from original intentions to fit what I can only see as popular Psychology without any genuine critical thought. The word, ‘transgender’, for example, basically derives from an intent in the 1960s to indicate that ‘transsexual’ is a misnomer and that it was a reference to transiting between anatomical genders as opposed to physiological sex. It was first adopted by people around Virginia Prince (‘transgenderal’) to describe people who were gender variant. From there it was used as a general and inclusive term. It then was co-opted to mean only those who fully transited but in a way that excluded the gender variant. Thus you have cross-dressers today who ask, “Am I transgender?”, meaning do they want to go through the biochemical and surgical processes of transition. Anyone who presents variations in gender are transgender. Some people only transition basically once and are gender invariant (which is why being invariably feminine in a male body is so dysphoric) while others transit between genders frequently.

          It’s all complicated but the basic conclusion I came to was it is necessary to recognize the connectivity of sex and gender but to also realize the distinctions if only in that one is objective and the other subjective.

          I applied that principle to other terms (‘spectrum’ for example) and found that the present (especially 2000-2010) usages created misconceptions and contradictions and not a few debates. I was not alone in these findings, especially amongst linguists and philologists who noted similar discrepancies.

          So I wrote a book that is unpublished because nobody is really interested. I took each term (including ‘sex’ and ‘gender’) search for the etymology and variance is definitions to understand the history of each term and how each is presently used. For example, a German baron. I look at five editions:

          Krafft-Ebing, Baron Prof. Dr. Richard von, “Psychopathia Sexualis: eine Klinisch-Forensische Studie”, Verlang von Ferdinand Enke, Stuttgart, 1886, translated by Prof. Dr. Charles Gilbert Craddock, M.D. as, “Psychopathia Sexualis”, Rebman Company, Philadelphia, 1892.

          Krafft-Ebing, Baron Prof. Dr. Richard von, “Psychopathia Sexualis: eine Klinisch-Forensische Studie”, Verlang von Ferdinand Enke, Stuttgart, 1886, 12th edition translated by Francis Joseph Rebman, Rebman Company, New York, undated, ca. 1903.

          Krafft-Ebing, Dr. R., O. Ö. von, Prof. Psychiatrie u. Nervenkrankheiten A. D. K. K. Universität Wien, “Psycopathia Sexualis: Mit Besonderer Berücksicht der Conträren Sexualempfindung: Eine Klinisch-Forensisenche”, Neunte, verbessserte und theilweise vermehrt Auflage, Verlan von Ferdinand Enke, Stuttgart, 1894.

          Krafft-Ebing, Baron Prof. Dr. Richard von, Professor of Psychiatry and Neurology, University of Vienna “Psychopathia Sexualis: With Special Reference to Contrary Sexual Instinct: A Medico-Legal Study”, Authorized Translation of the Seventh Enlarged and Revises German Edition, by Charles Gilbert Chaddock, M.D.; The F. A. Davis Company, Publishers, London, 1894.

          Krafft-Ebing, Baron Prof. Dr. Richard von, “Psychopathia Sexualis: With Special Reference to the Antipathic Sexual Instinct: A Medico-forensic Study”, translated by Franklin S. Klaf 1965, Arcade Publishing, Inc., New York, 1998.

          in the earlier translations ‘gender’ is used 5 times, each with a fairly specific reference to behaviour and not to sex. In the more recent translation each use of the word ‘sex’ (when possible) was converted to ‘gender’. That is, early translators (and von Krafft-Ebing himself) understood the difference but later translators simply followed the erroneous conclusions of some 1970s theorists and the prurient policies of media executives (who misunderstood why the Feminist Movement as inspired by de Beauvoir worked towards gender equality) and use the terms as equivalents. This essentially poor translation would lead to the conclusion on the part of those new to the field that von Krafft-Ebing though that ‘gender’ and ‘sex’ were the same which was not the case. (The earlier translations are not the best either.)

          An it goes on and on.

          The assumption that ‘passing’ as female is the desired outcome for a cross-dresser simply does not recognize that, in our society, we place values on masculinity and femininity as if one is a pathological version of the other. For example, the belief until comparatively recently (and still held by some and still used to make political decisions) that females were imperfect males incapable of having the same privileges as males.

          Being feminine is normal, healthy and desirable. In either sex. It is not pretending to be females (sex) that is the goal but being genuinely women (gender). The term ‘passing’ is misleading and conducive to an inequitable valuation of gender.

          So, no, I do not have an published works, just a 350-page manuscript that is now out-of-date.

          Feel free to communicate anytime. Just keep in mind that a single question can set me off on a lengthy exposition.

          Araminta.

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          • #665342
            Holly Morris
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            Hi Araminta, thanks again.

            And yes, you and I think alike in many ways, it seems. I too love going off on long expository trails when I have the time to do so, so if one question sets off a long response, which in turn leads to a longer discussion, that would be wonderful!

            Hugs,

            Holly

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      • #664942
        Саманта
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        YES!!  Now this is deep.  I hadn’t even considered the racial implications of passing (which we’ve seen recently btw) nor the sexual implications (which we still do see, regrettably in my opinion).  Those historical vantage points certainly put a different spin on this.  And then also getting into the concept of sexual attraction vis-a-vis the “optics” and the role that plays in all this.  That particular angle is fascinating to me, and worth exploring some more in another post.  “Authenticity” is important too.  Lol there’s a lot in here, wow.  Thanks for your comments Araminta, clearly a topic you’ve done a lot of research and thought upon 😉

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        • #665038
          Araminta Purdy
          Duchess
          Registered On: January 23, 2020
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          Actually, I am still working this stuff out. When I researched and wrote my original work exploring the terminology related to gender and sex I found the concepts of Sexual Orientation perplexing and the terminology misleading. However, the matter was so complex that I could not propose a definite proposal as an alternative. I may write some ideas outlining this complexity later.

          The key point, to me, is that, although femininity may be based on the ideas of ‘femaleness’, gender is not predetermined by sex. Therefore a male being feminine (and, therefore, a woman) either part-time or full-time, is not irrational nor inconsistent.

          More particularly, I begin to sense that femininity, at least in a modest presentation, is a natural, human state while extreme forms of masculinity are questionable.

          It seems to follow that if a person desires to be attractive, i.e., feminine, then they desire attraction. This leads to the suspicion that one’s Sexual Identity might be variable when one’s gender is variable.  One’s Sexual Orientation may be fixed but still conducive to a variation of situations depending on present conditions.

          Araminta.

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          • #665128
            Meghan Brandice
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            I tried, really tried to get into and read both of your posts but lost me after the first paragraphs. This is this is such deep metaphysical rhetoric and so lengthy that I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about or point(s)you are making ,it’s way over my head.No disrespect intended. Good luck with your dialogue , it’s on a university graduate thesis level

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          • #665140
            Araminta Purdy
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            Oh, thanks, actually. It is confusing and one of my points is that people use inappropriate terminology simply because they do not understand the underlying principles involved, the historical meaning of the words they use and how the more recent usage not only distorts that original meaning but does not properly convey a realistic intent.

            ‘Passing’ meant a deliberate and successful attempt to make others believe one is something they are not. I suggest that ‘cross-dressers’ should not try to be something they are not but that they do grow to be something that is consistent with their characters and that most succeed in becoming their ‘real’ selves. That is, they are not ‘passing’ so much as ‘being’.

            It is the ‘being’ that is important and meaningful, the ‘passing’ is illusion and meaningless.

            Araminta.

             

             

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          • #665191
            Meghan Brandice
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            Thanks for your understanding reply, Araminta. I was so afraid you would be offended and mad at my own opinion of your lengthy confusing post. You were not, thank you… and your latest edited condensed post makes it much clearer sister CD. Have a nice day.

            Meghan

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          • #665310
            Araminta Purdy
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            No, really! I read my own stuff and try to figure out how to make my points more simply. Part of the problem is that I feel the need for a historiographical summary as well a citations of previous works to explain why I fell that very recent ‘buzz-words’ are inaccurate before I can present my own theories and meanings. The other part is that I am trying to fit together often apparently unconnected (like, who cares) details to make a cohesive narrative. Just cut to the last paragraph.

            Also, as you were, I am concerned that people think I might be insulting them. For example, those who use ‘gender spectrum’ as far as I am concerned do not understand ‘spectrum’ or ‘gender’. Simply put a spectrum has infinite variations. Gender doesn’t. So-called experts who use ‘opposite sex’ or ‘opposite gender’ just make me cringe. What possible justification is there for thinking they are ‘opposites’? And ‘hard-wired’; what does that even mean? We are living beings and not machines.

            I rely on the views, experiences and opinions of people whose living experience provides the very best information available. I may disagree with the terminology and even the resultant conclusions (such as any need for ‘passing’) but I find that there is a consistency that validates my own thoughts.

            Araminta.

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          • #665324
            Meghan Brandice
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            You lost me again Araminta????.I too have the habit of being very ‘Verbose’ but not to your extent. Mine is due to Adult A.D.D. and have learned through suggestions and guidance to ‘ cut to the chase’ with simple English and not be over their heads, I try to limit my reply’s to several sentences or one paragraph, TO each their own??
            Again no offense but I’m intimidated and not in your league
            Respectfully – Meghan

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          • #665338
            Araminta Purdy
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            I suppose a simplistic view is that I find the issues complex because of their inter-relatedness and I find it difficult to put the pieces together in a brief and comprehensive manner.

            Araminta.

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          • #665366
            Саманта
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            There are a lot of inter-related components, and as you mentioned a reply or two back, they dont always appear to be that way on the surface.

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          • #665157
            Саманта
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            I think this really cuts to the heart of the matter, Araminta.  The idea behind why i posted this initially, is that i define “passing” the same way you just did and wanted to see which way the wind was blowing among our Sisters here.  Looking thru the replies, i am admittedly surprised to see that some gals are defining “passing” the same way you just defined “being”.  I do not remember getting this same sense, whenever we would talk about this topic 3 or 4 years ago.  So i’m beginning to wonder if the definitions or at least people’s perceptions are changing some as culture moves this way or that.

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          • #665317
            Araminta Purdy
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            I am not alone in expressing my dismay at the way people who really need to understand what is happening to them are harmfully misinformed. For example, there are many who believe that cross-dressing is a sin, should  be punished or ‘cured’ and is caused by demons. Some of these people are actually therapists. Also there was a burgeoning interest in ‘Gender Studies’ by Social Scientists in the 1970s to present that introduced basically politically-motivated concepts. These were essentially the result of deliberate misunderstandings of earlier work.

            There does seem to be a gradual shift in ‘common sense’ (Hah!) that is rectifying many of these mis-steps but it proceeds slowly. False conclusions are distributed at lightning speed. Hence my query about male femininity. I believe I can identify instances in which a male behaves in manners distinctly feminine but simultaneously attributable only to males. Quentin Crisp comes to mind.

            Even more important, there are young people who delight in being feminine and insist on being recognized as male. Interesting!

            Araminta.

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    • #664793
      Jamie Johnson
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      I only have one mode of presentation. There is no need for me to pass anything since my presentation is that of a feminine male. I even occasionally get called ma’am and love just being myself.

      • #664812
        Meghan Brandice
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        Great whatever works for you and you’re comfortable with

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    • #664782
      Holly Morris
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      Hi Samantha.

      To me, passing means that when I’m out in public, I’m seen, treated as, and accepted as a real woman in whatever I’m doing and wherever I go. This means that both men and women who look at me see me as a real cis-woman, not as a man in a dress, a drag queen, or anything other than a woman.

      So for me, this means that I dress to blend in, not stand out. I do this by dressing appropriately for what I’m doing. For instance, if I’m just running errands, stiletto heels, fully-fashioned stockings attached to a visible garter belt, and a glam dress are probably not the right look. It’s more the soccer mom look of casual femininity that will blend in there so that if anyone looks at me, all they’ll see is another mom out and about. But for a night at the opera, jeans, tennies, and a halter top aren’t appropriate there either. So it’s all about looking the part and dressing appropriately.

      There are a couple of other components that I feel also contribute to my being able to blend in and be accepted as a woman so that I pass. Those are how I do my makeup, and how I act.

      If I want to look like a woman, I have to think like and act like a woman. A woman out running errands is not going to put on the same type and amount of makeup she’d put on for going out on a date, so I try to use that same approach. And I try to walk and act and sound like a real woman, not over the top like a flamboyant drag queen, so that again, I’m just blending in and being seen as a woman.

      That’s what passing means to me. The good thing is, I’m not worried about being read anymore, I’m way past that. If I’m read, I’m read. It’s not a big deal to me unless it puts me in any danger (and then the male will rise to the top very quickly in self defense). Other than that, I’m just another woman out in the world, doing all the normal things that any other woman does. If I’m called “ma’am” by a man, or have a door held open for me by a man, then that’s a bonus (because, let’s face it, men are not especially observant, are they?). Now if a woman calls me “ma’am” or tells me how nice I look, then that’s an extra-special bonus, because that means I really did pass and have been accepted into that wonderful sisterhood of being a woman. And yes, that has happened a few times to me, for which I’m very thankful.

      Hugs,

      Holly

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      • #665139
        Carmen Cruz
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        Great read Holly! Great stuff! Thank you!

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    • #663557
      Caty Ryan
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      I’m with the “blend in school”, which I think I do reasonably well. Mature, well dressed lady going about her business. I try not to talk to anyone as my voice is a dead giveaway. I dont drink coffee when out in public as I don’t see the point in having a possible confrontation “in the ladies”

      But if I just quietly walk the street or shop and have a/. long hair and b/. “bumps” in the right places. and take shorter steps, most people I walk past dont even give me a second glance.

      Sure I’m been “clocked”, but that is very rare

      Caty.

       

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    • #663473
      April Flowers
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      To me, passing is being viewed as another cis-woman whether just blending into a group or standing out intentionally. There are many cases, such as last night for me, where I dressed up in a short skirt(skort actually) low cut blouse and high heels. Did I stand out on purpose in this particular restaurant due to the clothing selection? Yes I did(based upon the glances from men and women). However, I do tone it down enough to provide a the frame of a woman in her early 50s woman who has taken care of herself and flaunts it just a tad to provide a personal reward to herself(see some of my pics on this site).

      Yes, I am lucky to have a physical frame that does enable passing most of the time. At 5’9″, 155 lbs, size 9 heel/shoe and a size 6 and a supportive spouse reviewing my makeup and clothing combinations this is a big advantage. Thus, passing to me is taking advantage of this luck I currently find myself immersed.  I push to be the best I can be as a woman(mannerisms, behavior and appearance) as if I owe it to the cis-ladies. I practiced walking in heels for hours with substantially coaching from my wife to perfect “the walk” and hours on makeup techniques.

      I am always addressed as lady(ladies), addressed as ma’am by the teenage girls shopping right next to me in clothing stores, been called “pretty” by others who thought I was out of earshot and then of course, the men. Many of you may be asking, “Do you need this to feel good”? Admittingly, I look for that affirmation almost as a grade to my dedication to looking my best.

      Now here is the flipside: If you pass are you ready for the consequences? In groups of cis-women female discussions surface of course. I have been asked about menopause(have you reached menopause and how are your hot flashes?), how is your sex life, when is the last time you had a mammogram, I’d love to see that painting you are mentioning – can we all come over to your house? etc…..etc. Was I prepared for this – NOT at all! I am in a book club that is now all female, due to two men dropping out, which changed the discussion parameters. There are other awkward situations that one must be aware if it appears you are passing/passable.

      Finally, I am never certain if I “pass”. I try very hard to be passable. However, one can never be certain in my view. Thus, it keeps me on my toes whether I am wearing ripped jeans, a floppy blouse, a tight skirt/dress or sneakers/heels.

       

       

      • #664754
        Meghan Brandice
        Lady
        Registered On: April 15, 2022
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        I never go out in groups with other CDs. I’m well past that point. 25-30 years ago I belonged to a local CD group in my city that would meet twice a month at a hair salon, I found this was not the place for me with inexperienced amateurs who needed a safe sanctuary to ‘hide’and gather and express themselves for a few hours if ‘ womanhood’
        I prefer to go out in public alone or with another female, my wife or trusted male friends of decades and pass and ‘ impersonate their woman companion, but mainly I travel out solo to go and do my own thing successfully unnoticed and blended in.
        For me that’s the way I enjoy it most. But to each their own- you must find your own comfort level. With love and best wishes to you ‘ newbies’ going public – GOOD LUCk
        Meghan

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        • #665135
          Carmen Cruz
          Lady
          Registered On: September 12, 2021
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          I think “inexperienced amateurs to… hide and gather” as the reason for meeting CD groups could be somewhat inaccurate. I’m considered a newbie and have never gone out in CD groups, but I’d go to be part of a community event of partying with likeminded CDs, not because I’m trying to hide.

          In terms of passing, I’ve gone out since the first day I wanted to try dressing, and began socializing and passing as a woman that very first day with a multitude of people. I’ve enhanced that craft, and go out to every event, every public situation a person can put themselves in, and pass 100% as a cis-woman. The only situation I can think of that would get me clocked as “trans” or “cd” would be if I wanted a man to reach his hands down my pants. Up until that point, everybody sees me cis, even in long social conversation in the middle of a casino bar with 10 men circling around me all talking at once.

          I definitely don’t blend in, and that’s on purpose. I get hit on by men literally ever 10 minutes throughout the day, no matter what I’m doing, and a walk from my car through the parking lot to get in the store I’d be lucky if I didn’t get hit on at least 3 times, both entering AND leaving.

          I have no intent on hiding when en femme, and definitely still a newbie.

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      • #664712
        Carmen Cruz
        Lady
        Registered On: September 12, 2021
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        Right on! Great words.

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    • #663458
      Revel
      Baroness
      Registered On: December 5, 2020
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      Hi Sam,

      To me, “passing” is simply looking like a woman convincingly, and blending in with cis-women as well, but the most important thing is just love yourself. 😉

      Rev

    • #663452
      Jess Secret
      Lady
      Registered On: February 18, 2021
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      I’m closeted but my boyfriend thinks I’m gorgeous in lingerie so that’s all the validation and satisfaction I need when it comes to the aspect of passing.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #663401
      Dana Munson
      Duchess
      Registered On: May 5, 2022
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      Samantha (Camahta in Cyrillic), I like your term “acceptance.” In my experience, if someone looks at you and you visually check most (or all) of their “boxes” for what they consider “female,” they are likely to simply “accept” you as being that . . . even if they have an inkling that you may not be. Another girl here said she just tries to “blend in” with other women in her immediate area. That’s a good approach to getting “acceptance.” Even a cis-woman is going to be oggled and stared at if she dresses inappropriately for her immediate surroundings (e.g., cocktail dress and high heels in a grocery store). So, try to look like everyone else around you and you give people less of a reason for that second or third glance. They will “accept” what they saw at the first glance. Myself, although I would dearly love to fool everyone around me into believing that I am a cis-woman, I know my physical form and my presentation are not THAT perfect. But there are cis-women who are “about” my size. So with the right curves (for my build), reasonable makeup and wardrobe, I can “pass” in the sense that those around me “accept” me as the woman I am trying to be. (If any around me positively identify me as “woman,” then HOORAY!!!!)

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      • #664947
        Саманта
        Managing Ambassador
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        “Safety in numbers” 😉
        In terms of “curves” and “build”, it seems to me that within each or either sex there is a range with some amount of overlap in between — if you can come even just close to the range a majority would consider to be the female one, you’re in…

        Thank you Dana

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    • #663374
      Sandy Honey
      Lady
      Registered On: February 24, 2021
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      Passing for me just means blending in with all the other women. I’m tall broad shoulders so looking like a real GG is not completely possible. But wearing clothes that other women wear, standing tall not slumping while walking or taking really long strides helps with blending in. I have been called ma’am, miss, honey too many times to count and I realize some are just being nice but I do believe some really thought I was just another woman. I wear basic makeup, my forms are not too big and I do take the time to look good when going out. I don’t wear sloppy or mismatched clothing and I wear jewelry that matches what I have on, my nails are professionally done and have my ears pierced so wear earrings to match my clothing. So passing to me is enjoying myself and letting Sandy life her life like she wants.

    • #663321
      Emily Alt
      Duchess - Annual
      Registered On: August 24, 2019
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      Hi Sammy,

      Passing to me means a discerning observer would never guess I was AMAB.  There are many girls on the Internet that easily qualify.  I’m not one of them….despite what the lovely girls on CDH tell me.

      Now, I won’t dispute that I’m capable of looking very good.  Like most women cis or trans, I use that to my advantage.  It opens doors….so to speak.  But I don’t pass.  IRL there are simply too many “tells”.  Blending in is my goal – casual observers don’t immediately recognize I’m not a cis woman.

      Passing isn’t important to me.  It’s unrealistic and it’s unauthentic.  I’m trans and I proudly wear that badge.  My girl brain works the way it works regardless of my appearance.  That’s what matters.

      Emily

    • #663305
      Саманта
      Managing Ambassador
      Registered On: January 21, 2018
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      I suppose i may as well put my own thoughts to it, why not.

      The only way i pass is as myself.  I can blend in with the cis-women pretty good & be accepted there, which is nice.  But it’s noticeable that i’m not exactly one of them as per the body i’m in — my thoughts on which i wrote about (insert shameless plug here) — and for anyone who couldn’t tell at first, the tells are there and it usually becomes obvious quickly.   And so this, to me, is passing or perhaps a better word would be “acceptance”.  Not everything is perfect, but i’m not out to fool anyone nor am i being anything or anyone i am not — i am who i am.

      Some gals — maybe even too many — use this term to indicate that they’ve fooled everyone into believing they are cis-women.  They didn’t.  If you consider even 1% of us as “passable” in that sense, then there are 380 gals on CDH who meet this impossible standard in all scenarios 100% of the time.  Do you believe that’s true?  I do not.  It’s easy to “pass” in a picture, real life is much more difficult.  Acceptance is a far more attainable standard.  Those are my thoughts anyway.

    • #663262
      Alison Anderson
      Duchess
      Registered On: October 15, 2018
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      It’s an interesting question on several accounts.  Passing usually means not being identified as a male in women’s clothing.

      But we know that we can’t fool all the people all of the time.  So what would you consider a good number?  People might say 95%, until you tell them that means that they are read by 1 in 20.  That might mean 2-3 people on a bus or train car, or several people on a city block.

      OK, how about 99%?  That might be one person in every large city block, or one in every 2 or 3 blocks in a smaller city.  Suddenly things aren’t looking so good.

      But what if people read you (or at least suspect) but you are unaware of it?  They may say something out of your view or out of your earshot. Not necessarily something bad, just noticing.  This situation happened to me.

      I had just started going out in public.  My friend was putting on a show with CD/TG folks talking about the life of a woman. After our rehearsal, we all went to a nearby restaurant before the show.

      The restaurant was on the lower level with the waiting area above and connected by a ramp.  It was a family style meal, and since everything was already paid for, we left at different times to walk back to get ready. There were a lot of people up in the waiting area.

      As I was leaving, I overheard one elderly woman say to her friend, “You see that table of women down there?  I don’t think they’re women, I think they’re men.”  Her tone was one of curiosity.  I didn’t hang around to hear her friend’s response.  But clearly the people remaining at the table had been read.  I never heard anyone say anything about it, so I’m guessing there was no comotion about it.  From my perspective, they had been read.  From their perspective, they had no idea.  So the question is, did they pass?

      I’ve been to other restaurants or shops where it was obvious that we (or some) were definitely men, but there was not even a double take when they heard a man’s voice.  A couple of times I went en femme into the Dress Barn right by my house (before they closed).  Both times one of the sales associate looked at me, and then said “Oh, Hi.”  She recognized me as I would often go in the store in male mode.  But other than the recognition, she went on with her business.  Did I pass? I think I might have if she didn’t know the male me.

      So maybe passing isn’t what’s important.  We don’t know what other people are thinking, so we don’t know if we are recognized as males or just treated like anyone else.  Perhaps acceptance is more important than passing.

      • #663402
        Eileen Bach
        Baroness
        Registered On: February 27, 2021
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        Dear Alison,

        Some gals are very convincing as women, but when in a group, they tend to be read easily. How fun that the nice elderly lady wasn’t sure!

        Eileen

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        • #663407
          Саманта
          Managing Ambassador
          Registered On: January 21, 2018
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          It seems like elderly people are like that for whatever reason.  I had a 91 year old man (!) who was chasing me around, convinced i was a cis woman until my friend told him i wasn’t lol

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    • #663175
      Marg Produe
      Lady
      Registered On: March 16, 2022
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      I’m thinking ha ha to myself as I follow all these threads and replies ….I’m only 5ft. 5in. and always wanted to not be a shrimp.  And then also not have a big nose and not be so skinny and not have a scar over my eye and not and not and notttttt.   So the list goes on and on if I let my brain go wild.  I’ve known women that I thought were very beautiful tell me about the same types of things (like how their hair is ratty or breasts too small or too big or their face had a dimple or their calfs were too big or clothes too plain  etc, etc, etc.) all the while I thought that they were perfect as they were.  So maybe it is easy to see the grass always being greener elsewhere and maybe those that pass best are just the ones happiest as they are and have learned to live with what they’ve got.  (But, I may still daydream about someday being tall and not being the little person lost in crowds or movie seats.  In my next life I’m going to ask for a little more height.   lol )   Marg

      • #663394
        Michelle McQueen
        Lady
        Registered On: June 14, 2021
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        Hi Marg.

        Funny you want more height while at 6ft I always wanted to be shorter and smaller in order to pass more easily. Seems we always want what we don’t have…. lol

        IMO… very few actually “pass” so the best the rest of us can hope for is acceptance.

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        • #663396
          Marg Produe
          Lady
          Registered On: March 16, 2022
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          Hey Michelle, I’ll be glad to share with you.   Marg

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    • #663165
      Kim Dahlenbergen
      Lady
      Registered On: November 18, 2019
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      In my view there are relatively few cross dressers who can consistently and reliably pass as natal females. I admire those who can and a part of me wishes it were possible for me too. But realistically, it is not. So, I strive for a convincingly feminine presentation, so that despite my height and other tells, the casual observer may likely take me as a slightly taller than average woman. I also prepare myself mentally by assuming that I will be read as a transgender person, and I am OK with that.

    • #663067
      Olivia Livin
      Duchess - Annual
      Registered On: October 22, 2018
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      For the most part, the idea of passing for me is unimportant. The extent to which I dress is done to make me feel complete and happy within myself not for the visual pleasure of others. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and although I am quite aware when looking in a mirror that I don’t measure up to societies idea of a cover queen, I don’t try to fool myself or others, I also know for a fact that most days I am as or more attractive than a great many cis women out there going about their lives.

      Measuring ourselves against others and their standards can give us insecurities which hold us back and keep us closeted. I feel better about myself and go about my day to day business. Being truly comfortable with who you are and what you’re wearing goes a very long way to not standing out.

      Olivia

    • #663025
      Marg Produe
      Lady
      Registered On: March 16, 2022
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      To me, Passing just means being left alone when I’m out an about.  I get “darlinged” and “maamed” and “deared”  and I also get “sired” but I just prefer nothing or else “Hi and  can I help you?”  I know that I’m intersex and I know that I will get mixed responses from people so I’m ready for anything but just silently want to go about my business.   I dress and tend to look womanly so that is usually how I’m treated so I guess that for me it’s more like mixing in or blending.  The hyper-rhetoric of today has gotten people edgy so it’s always a plus for me to just have a bland  daily public experience.  If I want to draw attention to myself, I’m sure that I can do it but i try to save that for the dance floor.  Perhaps passing is just public living without trauma.   Safe Journey,  Marg

    • #663006
      Stephanie Green
      Lady
      Registered On: June 23, 2022
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      I define passing as being able to go out in public en femme and blend in with all of the women out there.  I don’t want anyone to take notice of me (unless they find me particularly beautiful, lol).  Trying to be passable is what motivated me to pay attention to women’s fashion (clothes, shoes, hairstyles, etc.), the way they talk and their mannerisms.  I want to be as feminine as possible when I go out.  I know I’ll never be the prettiest girl in the room.  If I can go out and:  nobody laughs at or criticizes me, I get a compliment or two, and/or people just treat me like one of the girls, I’ll be happy.

      • #663084
        Meghan Brandice
        Lady
        Registered On: April 15, 2022
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        I am in total agreement with you 100% on every point you bring up here Ms. Stephanie! I am 75 years old, easily pass for a classy well defined woman in my late 50’s when out in public ‘dressed’. I have been going out passable since the age of 14, and have done it all, alone , hundreds of times out with my wife ( of 50 years) , with trusted select male  friends from decades, other CD’s , female co- workers and all. Been out to plays, symphony concerts, road show musicals, hundred of movies, restaurants, bars, taverns, cafes, nightclubs and of course shopping enfemme trying on clothes. and shoes and wigs, and ringing them up with cashier, with or (mostly without their suspicion)The main things CDs must remember is to feel confident, no nervousness, BLEND IN , and don’t draw attention to yourself with wearing inappropriate clothing for where  you’re at. Practice your walk, deportment, gestures, and voice and don’t look and walk like a truck driver in drag! Have confidence BIgTime and practice practice practice- to be a ‘‘female impersonator’  for a few exhilarating hours, then go home, wash your face get undressed and calculate how it went and plan your next thrilling outing in ‘Womanhood’

        Good Luck- Meghan

        • #663158
          Marg Produe
          Lady
          Registered On: March 16, 2022
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          Oh Meghan,  You are far more eloquent than I am but we are definitely on the same page.  Thanks, Marg

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    • #663005
      ChloeC
      Duchess
      Registered On: November 5, 2019
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      I’ve mentioned this before but since it’s apropos I’ll refer to it again. When I finally accepted that I was transgendered and I started seriously thinking about transitioning in the mid-70’s there were few shows on TV or places one could go to get a feel for what it might be like to try to ‘pass’. The many TV shows – Jerry Springer, Phil, Sally Jessye, when they had tg girls on they were all glammed up, wannabe showgirls or future contestants on RuPaul’s show.  They may have been passing, but they surely would have been noticed if they walked down any street in any town. Maybe admired by males, maybe scrutinized by women, but they would be noticed. And any flaws would have been super pronounced.

      Then I caught a Lou Gordon show and he had on some tg women who looked like they lived in anytown USA and had just been out at the supermarket or had put the young one down for a nap and, well, you get the picture. And you could see that they were not comfortable at all being on the show and being interviewed. Why? Maybe they realized they were being ‘outed’ and were no longer ‘passing’.

      That’s what I would consider passing – wearing decent clothing but nothing ‘glamorous unless it was a special occasion, hair mostly neat but a few stray hairs, minimal makeup, probably not in a dress just a top and slacks or capris or something simple, just everyday living. I don’t mean to be mean, but I would barely have noticed them if I had passed within 2 feet or less. I mean they would just be your standard housewife doing some errands, practically blending into the scenery.

      And that was what made me start looking a little deeper into what it would be to transition.  That was passing and if they could do it, maybe I could too.

      Hugs, ChloeC

    • #662982
      Karen Sumer
      Registered On: July 15, 2022
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      I have found over the last 50+ years at being a gurl, is that don’t try to a real woman. Be the best image of a female that you can be but still be you. Being beautiful is being an attractive you. Does that make any since at all?

    • #662971
      Fiona Black
      Lady
      Registered On: November 23, 2019
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      When people are out in public they usually spend a lot of time glancing around at those around them. This is behavior inherited from our distant ancestors who were always on the lookout for trouble. But the looks are almost always just quick glances unless someone spots something unusual or out of the ordinary. So to me, “passing” means trying to look and act as feminine as you can so that quick glance doesn’t linger on you but just passes onto someone else. Yes, you’re going to get clocked and get a long look occasionally but by passing you are trying to keep those situations to a minimum.

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    • #662962
      Brielle
      Duchess
      Registered On: August 14, 2021
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      Good topic! It means so many different things to so many of us, though. To me passing doesn’t mean necessarily thought to be a woman physically, but to at least be generally accepted in your gender presentation. I call it “fitting in”. And there are many of us who won’t get there while trying to hang on to male characteristics like facial and body hair. But that’s okay too.

      There are many places I’ve gone in Pittsburgh with people from our local group, where no one would think we were the gender we were presenting. But we “fit in” enough that we weren’t harrassed, ridiculed, or simgled out. To me personally, that is the essence of “passing”, although I also (personally) take great care in my appearance. Not to fool people, but just for my own self-confidence. I enjoy getting complements on my outfit or my make-up, or being called ma’am or miss when I’m out. But that of itself doesn’t mean a thing in terms of “passing”. The other person making those comments may likely be “playing along” and know full well I’m not a woman from birth.

      I believe more of us would “pass” if we just gain the confidence to be out and be our true selves. There’s nothing so sexy as a confident woman!

      • #663091
        Meghan Brandice
        Lady
        Registered On: April 15, 2022
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        Blend in- act natural with confidence, don’t go out looking like an over made up clown drag queen. You’re ‘impersonating a woman in public , remember? Dress appropriately for exactly you are, see in advance how other GG’s; ( genuine girls)?look.Do so with feminine grace and class with walk deportment and voice. Don’t look nervous or over your shoulder!!! It’s a dead giveaway and you’ll be spotted immediately

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      • #663090
        Raquel Smith
        Lady
        Registered On: August 26, 2021
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        I like this answer, Brielle.

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      • #663062
        Diane Marie Rakers
        Lady
        Registered On: August 18, 2019
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        Good morning Brielle,

        I have a story for you which I will share in a bit.

        Diane

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        • #663093
          Meghan Brandice
          Lady
          Registered On: April 15, 2022
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          We would love to hear it, when and wear can we find it written?

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          • #663112
            Diane Marie Rakers
            Lady
            Registered On: August 18, 2019
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            Okay, Meghan, I’ll condense it in a PM.

            I love the way you spell “Meghan”. Very hip, very much a beautiful woman’s name.

            Diane

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          • #663201
            Meghan Brandice
            Lady
            Registered On: April 15, 2022
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            I’ll wait for your PM; I’ll see your story and raise you 10 ( true) stories of my own. Call or Fold😉. Public passing nylon stocking wearing Meghan

            Your Deal Sweet thing!

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          • #663295
            Diane Marie Rakers
            Lady
            Registered On: August 18, 2019
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            I’m so dense, I don’t even know the lingo.

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    • #662920
      Celeste Starre
      Lady
      Registered On: June 26, 2018
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      If “passing” means that when people see you they see a woman then that’s mostly a myth unless you started to transition before puberty kicked in.  I remember watching one of those early shows (probably Donahue). where they had a panel of CD’s one day. There was an elderly CD who claimed she passed very well except around young children who she claimed were more perceptive than adults. I remember thinking: What nonsense!  Children are not more perceptive but they are naturally rude.

      • #663096
        Meghan Brandice
        Lady
        Registered On: April 15, 2022
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        I remember seeing the same Donohue program and remember hearing him saying that, In my early years of going out it was ‘ true in some rare cases’, young kids and teenage girls, That doesn’t happen anymore, I’ve perfected ‘ My Craft of Impersonation’

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      • #663064
        Diane Marie Rakers
        Lady
        Registered On: August 18, 2019
        Topics: 8
        Replies: 1092
        Has thanked: 1934 times
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        Thank you, Celeste, for making a 99.99% accurate statement about “passing”.

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #662922
        Eileen Bach
        Baroness
        Registered On: February 27, 2021
        Topics: 2
        Replies: 348
        Has thanked: 180 times
        Been thanked: 1346 times

        Then you never saw Grae Phillips?

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #663323
          Diane Marie Rakers
          Lady
          Registered On: August 18, 2019
          Topics: 8
          Replies: 1092
          Has thanked: 1934 times
          Been thanked: 3792 times

          I just saw her. Wow!

    • #662914
      Haley Ann
      Duchess
      Registered On: October 12, 2020
      Topics: 6
      Replies: 289
      Has thanked: 261 times
      Been thanked: 1345 times

      Once I stopped worrying about being 6’ with size 12 ft, and stopped worrying about passing, I realized most people do not care. Noticed…yes, standout…no. I cannot wear heals, so no 4” platforms either!

      it means not being labeled a tranny, a term I really dislike. Maybe I am more trans than CD, maybe not, but no way do I relate to that term or present that image…at least, I don’t think I do. Passing means being able to be taken seriously, especially by people that know me and/or know that I am a male. Feminine beauty is well…beautiful! I appreciate what it takes anyone to present as a beautiful woman, pretty girl, whatever term you choose. 3 yrs ago Haley found me, she wanted out and she did not want to look ridiculous. I lost 45 lbs, lost the body hair, started getting mani/pedi’s, started doing what I could do to sculpt my body to help me look to be somewhat androgynous at times, maybe even a little fem even when in drab. It means being Haley and being perceived as such…

      • #663098
        Meghan Brandice
        Lady
        Registered On: April 15, 2022
        Topics: 1
        Replies: 24
        Has thanked: 44 times
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        So, in the end how did that all work out? and who is Haley?

        2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #663357
          Haley Ann
          Duchess
          Registered On: October 12, 2020
          Topics: 6
          Replies: 289
          Has thanked: 261 times
          Been thanked: 1345 times

          I am not sure I understand your question, but it worked out OK, I guess?

    • #662900
      Lauren Mugnaia
      Duchess
      Registered On: November 1, 2021
      Topics: 10
      Replies: 255
      Has thanked: 2441 times
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      Passing, do I or don’t I? Hmmm, let me look back over the past couple weeks. The truthful answer is yes and no. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. Do I let it bother me if I don’t? I guess it depends on the situation. I went shopping by myself last weekend to buy some bras that were on sale. I went to pay for them and while I was waiting in line there were two young teenage girls who turned and looked at me. I had my hands full of three very colorful bras and a pair of tights so I might have been more noticeable, they turned back and whispered to each other and giggled. So I had no idea of what they might have said to each other, but my overactive imagination felt like I had been “read” or “clocked”. Other times I seem to pass with flying colors, no problems. Because of the circumstances of how I “came out” and how I transitioned, I am well known in my community, particularly the artist community as I am an artist and followed on Facebook, so they know who I am as a trans woman who has transitioned. It is the same for me where I work, I transitioned while working so everyone knows who I am an what I am about.
      I am who I am, what I am and why I am. I am a trans woman, I am trans feminine, I was born this way. I am proud of who I am and I don’t try to hide it. I have never been happier than I am now, living as a woman, but I know that I am a trans woman.
      Personally, I think we take it way to far when we say “I am a woman.” That is one of the issues that really seems to bring critical views regarding transgender people. We know that we identify and feel like women, but we have to face the reality that we are biologically AMAB.
      So, if I pass, it’s great!! If I don’t, I give them a smile, say hi, and maybe blow them a kiss…LOL!

      Lots of hugs girls,

      Lauren M

    • #662898
      Eileen Bach
      Baroness
      Registered On: February 27, 2021
      Topics: 2
      Replies: 348
      Has thanked: 180 times
      Been thanked: 1346 times

      My Terri never wanted to be accepted as a CD, she wants to be assumed a woman. Her favorite times are weekend errands like grocery shopping. Casual girl talk with other customers, Ma’amed at checkout, doors opened for her, and the occasional admiring look or leer.

      A slightly taller, chunky, busty, mature lady.

      Eileen

      • #663100
        Meghan Brandice
        Lady
        Registered On: April 15, 2022
        Topics: 1
        Replies: 24
        Has thanked: 44 times
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        That speaks a thousand words! And the perfect definition of passing. Been ther , done that Thousands of times literally over 59+ year! I know what you’re saying!

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #662880
      Polly Stewart
      Lady
      Registered On: January 2, 2021
      Topics: 13
      Replies: 946
      Has thanked: 1459 times
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      Hi…

      In warmer weather I think I can ‘pass’ at the 10 metre mark even to people I know. In a group of women I can, and have passed at much closer distances.
      I’m 6’1” so I wear flats mostly though not all the time. One of my cis girlfriends is 6’2” and so good looking!

      💋 Polly

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #662875
      Lisa Leigh
      Lady
      Registered On: April 20, 2022
      Topics: 4
      Replies: 147
      Has thanked: 452 times
      Been thanked: 559 times

      Passing, what is it. For me it means I could go out and if someone I knew saw me and didn’t recognize the male self behind the clothing and the make up, and other ladies couldn’t tell I wasn’t one of them. If my hair was styled in such a way that when the wind would blow my hair wouldn’t act like a wig. If my voice was tuned to the perfect pitch with no male tones noticeable. My walk, my strut and other manners were perfect. Well I guess after all that would I consider myself as passable. Of course I’m 6’2” so I would still need to lose several inches of height. It’s always something.

      • #663498
        Stevie Steiner
        Managing Ambassador
        Registered On: June 11, 2020
        Topics: 80
        Replies: 1936
        Has thanked: 8529 times
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        Awww  Lisa 6’2″ is tall, but not too tall by any stretch.  Us lanky girls just wear flats more often. 🙂

        (Ugh, work with me here please, lol!  )

        Stevie

         

        2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #663101
        Meghan Brandice
        Lady
        Registered On: April 15, 2022
        Topics: 1
        Replies: 24
        Has thanked: 44 times
        Been thanked: 74 times

        We’re on the he same page gorgeous! Read my other replies to CDs on this thread, I’m lucky- only 5’9”.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #663499
          Саманта
          Managing Ambassador
          Registered On: January 21, 2018
          Topics: 608
          Replies: 1570
          Has thanked: 9196 times
          Been thanked: 5438 times

          well then dontcha wish you were 5’6″ like me 😅😉

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #664708
            Meghan Brandice
            Lady
            Registered On: April 15, 2022
            Topics: 1
            Replies: 24
            Has thanked: 44 times
            Been thanked: 74 times

            Oh yeah and wear a size 10 dress, and 8 shoe!😉

            1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #662864
      Raquel Smith
      Lady
      Registered On: August 26, 2021
      Topics: 17
      Replies: 853
      Has thanked: 2945 times
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      Sam,

      Yes.

      I’d like curves in all the right places. I’d like my makeup to be exquisite. I’d like to let my natural hair grow out and be styled to perfection.  I’d like my clothes to be fashion show runway worthy.  I’d like to look like a woman, that if I were a single fellow or single gal, I would like to meet and spend time with.

      I would like to be mistaken for a female.  I would like to be, maybe not the prettiest girl in the room, but a very attractive girl, that one wouldn’t know was “packing”, until I spoke and my deep voice made one do a double-take.

      Then we would engage in conversation and if one were interested, I would tell them the whole story behind being Raquel.

      That’s my fantasy.

      • #663425
        Meghan Brandice
        Lady
        Registered On: April 15, 2022
        Topics: 1
        Replies: 24
        Has thanked: 44 times
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        There are many many videos on YouTube that give tutorials on how to speak like a woman as well as one on this site given by a GG (genuine girl) ( I don’t know what a ‘ cis’is?)
        Study them , practice and use your iPhone voice recorder, or do a video selfie aimed at yourself , and keep improving as needed. The voice change comes from your mouth and voice box not your lungs

        3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #662855
      Carmen Cruz
      Lady
      Registered On: September 12, 2021
      Topics: 33
      Replies: 341
      Has thanked: 504 times
      Been thanked: 1982 times

      For me, passing is being read as a woman in every situation a cis woman would ever find herself in socially in a public place (with exception of wearing a thong bathing suit at the beach/ocean/pool). I have no desire for some reason to include bathing suits.

      Is it important? To me, absolutely yes. If I ever got asked if I was trans, I think I’d feel crushed and a failure to be honest. Fortunately, that hasn’t happened in the near 3 years now I’ve been putting myself out there socially, 5 times a week or more.

      On the same note, for me personally, not only is passing important… but I extend that to being seen as a hot, beautiful, sexy scantily dressed sultry confident woman.

    • #662849
      Stevie Steiner
      Managing Ambassador
      Registered On: June 11, 2020
      Topics: 80
      Replies: 1936
      Has thanked: 8529 times
      Been thanked: 9827 times

      Hiya Sam!  Passing used to mean going to meet your maker, but since being “out”, it’s meaning has changed, lol.

      Sorry, didn’t mean to be flippant.   I guess I have seen Passing as simply not being blatantly noticed and recognized as a ” guy in girls clothes “.   So maybe it just means blending in and not being noticed.  That would work, since most people don’t really pay attention to other people much in their daily lives anyway.

      What it is, is a self imposed anchor many of us wear that holds us back and prevents us from being happy with ourselves.  Just my thinking… 🙂

      Stevie

      • #663455
        Meghan Brandice
        Lady
        Registered On: April 15, 2022
        Topics: 1
        Replies: 24
        Has thanked: 44 times
        Been thanked: 74 times

        Stevie; That ‘ self imposed anchor’ is called extreme nervousness . It must start with baby steps like walking. Self confidence and not looking over your shoulder thinking you might be ( but in reality are not) READ, is the big major obstacle to passing. Just don’t overdress, over makeup and look like a mini skirted tramp when gg’s around you wherever you go are most likely wearing ripped jeans, leggings and sneakers or flip- flops. Blend in slowly. It will work🥰

        3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #664713
          Carmen Cruz
          Lady
          Registered On: September 12, 2021
          Topics: 33
          Replies: 341
          Has thanked: 504 times
          Been thanked: 1982 times

          Oh geeze, Mehgan, you just described me to a T! I’m the tramp!!!! LOL.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #663497
          Саманта
          Managing Ambassador
          Registered On: January 21, 2018
          Topics: 608
          Replies: 1570
          Has thanked: 9196 times
          Been thanked: 5438 times

          shoulder thinking you might be ( but in reality are not) READ,

          hmm can you clarify please, Meghan?  thx

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #663556
            Meghan Brandice
            Lady
            Registered On: April 15, 2022
            Topics: 1
            Replies: 24
            Has thanked: 44 times
            Been thanked: 74 times

            Just what it says allow me to interpret. Many CDs look nervously over their shoulder thinking, fearing, assuming, jumping to false conclusions…bodda- bing,boddda- bang that they’ve been read when they in really have not?
            Make sense now😉

            1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #663585
            Саманта
            Managing Ambassador
            Registered On: January 21, 2018
            Topics: 608
            Replies: 1570
            Has thanked: 9196 times
            Been thanked: 5438 times

            I guess? 
            How do they know they haven’t been read tho?
            I solve that whole dilemma by just assuming everyone already knows…it’s a lot less anxiety that way

            2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #663490
          Stevie Steiner
          Managing Ambassador
          Registered On: June 11, 2020
          Topics: 80
          Replies: 1936
          Has thanked: 8529 times
          Been thanked: 9827 times

          That is exactly it Meghan!  🙂

          2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #662839
      Sally Drinkwater
      Duchess
      Registered On: July 15, 2019
      Topics: 25
      Replies: 332
      Has thanked: 104 times
      Been thanked: 1375 times

      Hi CamaHTa,

      I suppose it depends on what or who you you want to pass as? A street walker, a stripper, a jogger a man in a nylon wig or a nomal natural woman?

      I like to be seen but never noticed!

      Sal xx

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