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  • #430784
    Genevive Enseignante
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    Registered On: December 19, 2020
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    I posted this in Wives and SOs section, I’m posting it here so everyone can see it.

     

    Hello ladies I’m new here and have just recently started spending some time reading the different topics here (In the Wives and SO section). There seems to be a lot of talk about feelings of being lied to or deceived  by husbands who kept their cross dressing secret for much of their married life. At the same time there seems to be no understanding at all of what the cross dressing man has gone through to get to the point where he had the courage to tell his wife, or what his desires actually mean for them moving forward. A cross dresser has lived with feeling like he is a deviant, like someone who would be shunned if he were to disclose his secret. He would most likely feel that the wife he loves would leave him if he told his secret, and perhaps humiliate him to his friends and family as well. If you truly love your husband, shouldn’t you be happy that he wants to share this side of himself with you? As I alluded to in my title, there are many levels of gray in between the truth and lies. It is understandable for a wife to be angry if her husband tells her that he not only wishes to dress in women’s clothes, but wishes to do that without her involvement, or even worse if he has been living a life outside the home during the marriage. My husband told me about his desire to dress less than a year ago, if he had told me that he had been doing this with other people outside of our home all along, I would have felt deceived. If he would have told me that he is bisexual or gay I may have felt differently about continuing our marriage. I’m sure there are many other grays that I didn’t mention, I’m certainly no expert on this subject, but I am in a happy marriage that now includes my cross dressing husband. If anybody needs advice on this subject or just to discuss it with me I’m here for you.

    Love, Genevive

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    • #434400
      Genevive Enseignante
      Baroness
      Registered On: December 19, 2020
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      Thank you all again for all the wonderful replies you’ve all shared with me. I don’t have as much time to post or reply here as I wish I did. The night after I made this thread I came home from work to find loads of PMs and thread replies which ended up taking me 2 hours to complete, given that from Monday to Friday after work I generally have about 3.5 hours until bedtime it’s not something I can do every night, though I’d like to because you’ve all been so warm and kind. On the other hand the response I received to this identical thread in the other section was quite different, making me appreciate everyone here that much more.

      Love, Genevive.

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    • #432286
      Emily
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      Registered On: April 30, 2016
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      Thanks for sharing this point of view. It was very encouraging to me. I do wish more wives, mine included, would share your side of this issue. Too often a SO will not look past how finding out about a crossdressing partner affects them, not about how the partner feels. It is a scary feeling to share this with anyone, especially someone you love and respect. The outcome is not always as positive as it has been in your situation, so we are hesitant to fully “out” ourselves in fear of that dreaded ultimatum. A hint dropped here and there can sometimes give an idea about how the conversation will go. If those hints are not received positively, it makes it even harder to tell the whole story. I speak from personal experience here. My wife knows, but wants no part of this area of my life, to the point of praying that this demon will be removed from me. Makes me sad.

      • #432485
        Cindy Lou
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        “…to the point of praying that this demon will be removed from me. ”

        Ugh… I’ve got to go vomit now.

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      • #432303
        Hilda Beaumont
        Duchess
        Registered On: March 14, 2020
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        Emily I do feel for you. Seeing cross dressing as something ‘to be cured’ is I think both misguided and very cruel. In my case it was slightly different. My SO had no problem with accepting cross dressing in principle but could not abide the thought or sight of me cross dressing. Bit of a double standard I thought but there was no denying her strength of feeling so we are going our separate ways.
        HRxx

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    • #431773
      Amanda Burton
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      This

      That’s so true Genevieve, my eldest daughter is well on board with Amanda, my youngest, is but still struggling with the death of her mother so Amanda has to be careful at the moment. But basically I agree with you, the new generation seems to accept different sexual concepts.

       

    • #431370
      Kitty Van Curen
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      Registered On: November 3, 2020
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      That is such a fair perspective. There’s a lot of truth in that, and very unbias. There’s never any consideration towards having the courage to admit something so potentially damaging with irreversible consequences and opening up an intimate secret to others. It’s a massive undertaking with an equal amount of risk. It would be great if everyone had an accommodating attitude and compassion such as this stated here.

      I wish you the best! And thank you.

    • #431312
      Regine Rich
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      Registered On: October 9, 2020
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      Welcome, Genevive, and thank you for your post, and for the support you give your SO.
      We all look for the acceptance from the ones we love, and, though I have it, fully, there are a lot who don’t, and I/we are all so very thankful to those SO’s who do support us.
      You are a most welcome member of our family
      hugs, Regi

    • #431279
      Sa•man•tha
      Managing Ambassador
      Registered On: January 21, 2018
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      Genevieve, thank you kindly for sharing your very reasonable & insightful thoughts, it seems you have the gift of birds eye view.  We all need understanding.

      It takes a humongous leap of faith to come out to those closest to you.

      There’s a world of difference between, fear of consequences vs. all out deception, between growing as a person vs. deliberate misrepresentation.

      While we all have our boundaries & breaking points, I believe that if you love someone, you should want them to know you, and if they love you too they’ll want to know who you are also.

    • #431013
      patty williams
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      Registered On: January 19, 2019
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      Hi Genevive,

      Thank you for the post.

      My wife felt like I was lying to her the truth is I have s had a desire to get to wear the cloths a woman wears and be one since pre teen years.

      It just didn’t come to reality until we were spicing our romantic life spa bit and I tried on some high heeled boots.

      That was all it took I new then what I was meant to wear and be.

      Great post thank you so much.

      I still love my wife very much but Patty has pretty much killed the romance and intimacy in our marriage unfortunately and I still feel guilty about that.

      I just cannot deny who I am .

      hugs Patty

    • #430981
      Marti
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      There’s already been some very thoughtful responses to this thread, which is as I expect on CDH. I’ll try not to go over old ground.

      A bit of devil’s advocacy coming:  trying to understand an SO who wasn’t quite so positive, someone who essentially says “I’m sorry, I didn’t sign up for this”. Why is that so bad? They may still be in love, but for them it’s a deal breaker.

      Imagine you love and marry a dope smoker. You might even be aware of it, and maybe you even don’t mind dipping into that lifestyle now and again. Then further down the line, they tell you “Actually I didn’t tell you I smoke lots and all the time, and I know I should have told you, but is it ok if our joined-up lives progress the way I’m more comfortable with?”

      Are you obliged to agree? Or can you say “That’s a no-no, because it doesn’t take account of how I want my life to progress “.  Are you entitled to say “I’m ok at this level, but no more” and expect that agreement to be honoured?  Or would it be ok for the doper at that point to think “oh, you’re coming round – with a bit of luck I can swing you more towards my viewpoint”.

      I’m not saying this is a great analogy to a coming out scenario, but perhaps it gives food for thought.

      • #431294
        Marti
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        Hi All,

        My post wasn’t well received. My apologies to those I’ve upset. In trying to introduce a counterview, I’ve overreached, come up with a bad analogy, and made it far too dramatic – and worst of all made people angry. Sorry.

      • #431056
        Laura Lovett
        Lady
        Registered On: March 26, 2020
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        So many trigger phrases in there!!!

        “I didn’t sign up for that”.

        Oh  thank you very much. It’s not like I am a dope smoker who can’t get it together – I am a very motivated person who gets things done.

        You did sign up for “that” – you said “for better or worse”. Nothing was ever said about clothing – and it is not intrinsically bad to wear clothes.

        It could be worse – killing is very bad, for example.

        “A deal breaker”

        This is a plain nasty phrase too – I  understand that it’s not your phrase, I am not having a go at you, but this phrase makes my blood boil, as I’ve said in other posts.

        When did I sign this particular deal?

        What deal is broken?

        It’s a phrase of weasel words that says “I don’t like this, and I am going to threaten you unless you do as I command”.

        It’s an evil thing to lay on another human being with equal rights.

        “You kept your love of ABBA music a secret for 20 years and only now I find out? What kind of lying, deceptive moron are you?”

        Doesn’t cut the mustard, does it?

        I desperately want to understand why some women feel so anti cross dressing, but phrases like this just make me feel like those women only want trophy husbands, because most will tolerate it, except in their husbands – like we’re property.

        Yet those same women will stop wearing skirts, dresses and makeup after marriage, telling you they don’t really like wearing them – although it was a part of what drew you together.

        What if the guy said “I don’t like the way you dress – I didn’t sign up for that, it’s a total deal breaker. Wear dresses and makeup or get out of my life!!!”

        Dork, right?

        Appearance doesn’t keep couples together – love does, and that goes beyond the skin.

        Apologies for the rant, but those phrases light my fuse.

        Better out than in.

        Love Laura

         

         

        • #432253
          Riley McCort
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          Bravo sister!! Fantastic response!

          Riley 💋

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        • #431275
          Hilda Beaumont
          Duchess
          Registered On: March 14, 2020
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          Laura
          I just love it when you’re on your high horse. I Think the difficulty when coming out after getting married is the SO feeling deceived which is hurtful and leads to a lack of trust. Plus the realisation that the person the SO married isn’t the. person she thought he was and that loving him/her has become impossible. This was my wife’s reaction. Now that we are definitely separating we are on good terms but she still finds my dressing very difficult and upsetting.
          HRxx

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        • #431269
          stephanie plumb
          Baroness - Annual
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          Hi Laura, great reply.

          The phrase that hurt me most was  “I wouldn’t have married you if I had known.”

          But who knows, if I had been up front before we married she might have come to accept me as I am. I have convinced her that I am the person she married and maybe my feminine nature was one thing she found subliminally attractive about me.  The amount of housework and shopping I have done over the years has made her life easier, that’s for sure!

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          • #431299
            Cindy Lou
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            “I wouldn’t have married you if I had known.”

            Ouch, that would cut me to the bone if I heard that from my wife.

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          • #431276
            Laura Lovett
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            Registered On: March 26, 2020
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            Hi Stephanie

            My wife has said the exact same thing to me.

            However, while I respect her feelings, it shows precisely zero respect for ours.

            When I asked why, she didn’t even know.

            It’s a painful thing to hear, especially in the context of “For better or worse”.

            It’s exactly the same as me saying “I wouldn’t have married you if I knew that you didn’t like wearing dresses.”

            The priest who married us showed us a picture of an iceberg.

            Deep, huh?

            It means that we see the bit on top – the bit people show the world – but underneath, there’s a whole load of stuff we don’t know about and may never know about. We might not even know ourselves!

            But when you marry, you marry everything about that person, you can’t pick and choose – or why bother getting married?

            It’s not hard to understand, and there are a lot of things a married couple has to get to grips with, as there are no manuals for human beings.

            Marriage isn’t to be entered lightly or wantonly – those are phrases a priest will use.

            If cross dressing is such a big deal to some women, they should spell it out as an exception from the start, not pile all the blame on the poor guy, who is mist likely one of the loveliest men she’ll ever meet – she has no idea just how lucky she is!

            For Better or worse, but keep the Hell out of my wardrobe or it ends!

            Pah!

            Where’s my Bourneville?

            Love Laura

             

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          • #431348
            Cindy Lou
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            I’m so sorry you had to go through that Laura, it certainly explains your stance on marriage vows. You’re undoubtedly right on the money when you said “…the poor guy, who is most likely one of the loveliest men she’ll ever meet.”, being in touch with my feminine side has always made me a far more sensitive man than just about every other man I’ve ever met, and that was well before I knew I was more than just some guy who liked to wear lingerie every now and then.

            You should take the time to write your full history of what led you here to CDH, it would be an awesome read that I would look forward to, and quite possibly be very cathartic for you as well. I intend to do that at some point, I’ve already started but haven’t had the time to finish it yet.

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          • #432217
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
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            Hi Cindy

            My stance on marriage vows runs deeper than that!

            My parents were devout church goers, and I had to sing in the choir from age 6 until my 18th birthday, when I exercised my right as an independent human not to go any more, because I didn’t believe, despite 12 years of attempted brainwashing.

            In that time I attended literally hundreds, if not thousands of weddings, and listened, really listened to what the priests said about marriage and the reasons for it.

            One couple whose wedding I was in the choir for split up because the husband was a cross dresser. As it was a small village, and the pubs were more easy going in those days (my buddies and I started drinking in pubs aged 14 or so), I saw the guy regularly in the pub, and he was one of the nicest guys in the village.

            His wife chucked him out, and he lived for a while in a tent on the village green, before becoming a drunken tramp (I think some unkind village kids set fire to the tent).

            I couldn’t believe his wife had done that to him over clothing, especially when I knew that I had desires to cross dress too.

            That certainly influenced me to keep it as big a secret as I could – and foolishly think I could just give it up.

            Love Laura

          • #432304
            Cindy Lou
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            Congratulations on clearing your head of that brainwashing, it couldn’t have been easy after all those years of indoctrination. I’ve always told my wife that there may very well be a higher power or God, what I’ve always had a problem with is how it’s been organized if you know what I mean. (Me trying to keep within forum rules)

            What an incredibly sad story about that poor man, nobody deserves to treated that way, it must have touched you deeply as you still remember him to this day. Whenever I see a vagrant, or observe a drug addict on the show ‘Intervention’ I block out the common obvious thoughts and judgements and wonder what happened to this poor soul that led him to this point. But for the grace of God as they say, almost anyone can potentially end up the same way if the stars line up horribly wrong.

             

            Love back, cindy

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          • #432759
            Laura Lovett
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            Let me clarify… I didn’t believe in the church.

            Fixed.

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          • #432219
            Hilda Beaumont
            Duchess
            Registered On: March 14, 2020
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            The unkindness that is melted out to crossdressers never ceases to amaze and horrify me. I have never been subject to this. I realise that I am very fortunate in this regard. For really positive and well informed book on cross dressing I recommend Men in bras panties and dresses by Vernon Coleman available from Amazon on Kindle

            HRxx

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          • #431306
            Amanda Burton
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            Bloody hell Laura, got through 3bars of Bourneville just reading the reply. One of the sticking point is dating. Unless you say immediately hi I am “Burt” and I like to dress in women ‘s clothes, it’s awkward to find the right time to confess.

            How many women are going to say “F**k off” immediately. Definitely have to be honest early, and most won’ the because of the fear of rejection. Would be great if dating sites had this as an option to include for both sexes. “male into Crossdressing” or female “accept Crossdressing”. Maybe we should just up for a first date in female attire, “bang baby here I am, and I still have the equipment to satisfy”

          • #432204
            Laura Lovett
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            Hi Amanda

            I have had several women (very attractive ones) simply fling themselves at me, telling me they love me, I’m their soul sister, and all kinds of stuff like that – and I have good reason to believe that few were inebriated at the time, as one was at Cobham Services at 10.30 on a Saturday.

            She was just about to get into her car and drive off, when she suddenly looked up, noticed me getting out of my car, fully femme and freshly made up, feeling radiant. She watched me as I walked towards the services (I was peeping!) and suddenly grabbed me, saying “Oh my God – I love people like you!!!”.

            We had a lovely conversation and I was able to gently talk about my lovely wife and children without causing offence – but I refused to exchange numbers because she really was very attractive.

            They’re out there, and I usually meet at least 2 every time I go out.

            It all depends on how you’re dressed when you meet them, I guess! It’s a tricky subject to bring up if you’re in drab and scared of losing this one – but I think the best attitude is, as you say, to tell early.

            If she doesn’t like it, she’s *probably* not for you.

             

            Love Laura

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          • #432223
            Amanda Burton
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            Hi Laura sweetie, it’s true many straight women are sexually attracted to CDressers, indeed love and live with many which is fabulous. Indeed many lesbians too, as it has its sexual benefits. But the Grey area is always going to be if a female is un-aware of your CD passion,and the relationship getting serious, it’s at this point when you  realises that this is  time to be honest and confess you passion, before the female in question has fully committed herself to you, and it ends in tears, especially when kids are involved too.

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          • #432245
            stephanie plumb
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            Hi Amanda,

            When I met my wife I had a “Freddie Mercury” ‘tache, was seriously into mountaineering, and when not away,  was swilling skin-fulls of beer 7 nights a week with the lads.  I met my future wife in my local pub.   I had been a cross dresser since the age of about 7, I think, sporadically and with long intervals of abstinence. I wonder now if my macho period was self-denial. I was too busy to dress and hadn’t seriously done so for several years. In fact I thought this phase was behind me.

            So when I proposed I had no reason to confess I was a CD – because I believed I no longer was. But as time passed (the macho phase dwindled with married life and kids) I started dressing again and decided to keep it secret out of fear I would lose her. Gradually I dressed more and more, knowing that discovery was inevitable but too scared to have the conversation. Joining CDH opened the Pink Gates and I realised I had been in denial about my true nature. It was an awakening that has changed my life.

            When the “I wouldn’t have married you if I had known” conversation happened I was hurt but also relieved that I had kept it secret, because if she had known and made good her threat I wouldn’t now have a wife I love, two well-balanced adult kids and a comfortable life.   I would have a different life but its futile to speculate what it might have been.

            Steph xx

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          • #432340
            Cindy Lou
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            These are points of prime importance you make Stephanie, and they can not be repeated enough. Imo most CDing men are like this, we start out experimenting with it out of some deep inner curiosity, perhaps pushed along by sexual arousal, and afterwards invariably feel perverted  or guilty about  it. I can echo almost everything you wrote in recounting the history of my life with CDing. All the women out there that think we were lying to them about it all along simply don’t understand, because most of the time we didn’t understand it ourselves, usually expecting it to just go away. As we mature so the need to dress, perhaps not at the same pace but still it does evolve, until many of us end up in the situation we are in here at today at CDH, both the good stories and the bad.

          • #432941
            Roberta Broussard
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            I think you hit the nail on the head, Cindy Lou.

            Brings me think of the phrase, ” Everyone wants to be listened too but nobody want to listen ”

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          • #432275
            Amanda Burton
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            In reality Stephanie you were or are a crossdresser regardless of time periods when you did not dress. The Grey area here, apart from your hair maybe, is the reality that maybe you should have confessed your tendency to the liking of crossdressing, Or be it as soon as you wanted to do it again inside the relationship, again it comes down to fear that Cd’s still can’t do this.

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          • #431358
            Cindy Lou
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            Honest early? Absolutely, just not on the first date. We have to remind ourselves that we live in a far more accepting time than most of us grew up in, it’s still difficult but certainly not impossible to find the right person. Were I dating today my strategy would be first a foremost to find a woman that appears liberal. If things are proceeding nicely and there is a strong mutual attraction after a few dates, but before consummation, I’d put my best foot forward to have the talk with her. I’d take her on a dream date where I’d lavish her with everything a woman could desire, let her know how I truly feel about her, then if she feels the same way I’d let her know the rest and cross my fingers.

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        • #431267
          Sa•man•tha
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          Let me give my own perspective.  “Deal breaker” is totally legit.  I wouldn’t spend my life with just anyone under any circumstance and neither would you.  I’ve walked away from plenty of people and situations because, “deal breaker”.  It may be one thing if it were just clothes, but we all know that for many of us, its deeper than “its just clothes”.  Love is in your heart, but marriage is a legal entity.

          • #431311
            Cindy Lou
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            I’ll stop a little short of flat out disagreeing with you Samantha. I could see calling it a deal breaker if a couple got married and then on their wedding night the man walks into the bedroom wearing a negligee and pumps. Sticking to the thread title, there are are many shades of gray between the truth and a lie. I CDed in a limited  and very sporadic way most of my life. It was usually very quick lasting less than an hour and ending in shame and embarrassment immediately after self gratification. My point is that I honestly didn’t understand what it was nor expect it to progress and intensify as the years passed, it’s simply how I developed through the years. My wife was much younger than I when we met and hung on my every word while wearing mini skirts and 4 inch heels, today she is a completely different woman and dresses conservatively as is required by her job, people change, true love does not.

          • #431278
            Laura Lovett
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            Thanks for your perspective, Sammy.

            Obviously I fundamentally disagree, and this answer doesn’t change my mind about “The deal” and what is broken – but don’t stop reasoning back at me just because I’m a stroppy cow every now and then!

            Love Laura

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          • #431343
            Amanda Burton
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            Just going to put my five eggs in here for a minute.” Do I need a tin hat before you all throw something at me?”. We seem to be looking at it from a crossdressers view, rather than a wife or partner. To a wife /partner to suddenly find out your husband /partner likes to wear female attire is just not acceptable regardless of how we feel. Some come to accept the situation, sadly others cannot. In reality it comes down to our inability to be honest at the start of the relationships, but we then expect our wives /partners to accept our dressing, because it’s seem natural and fine to us,and try and hide behind the bond of marriage or commitment of love if they object. Lies and grey areas are sadly self inflicted. To ask someone to spend their life with you, then they have the right to know everything about you before the commitment, not suddenly pop up sometime later as if it’s no big deal. It is a big deal to many women that the point. Many females do accept Crossdressing and embrace it, some sadly cannot and it’s only fair they have the right to leave the relationship due to it. But until society as a whole changes its  acceptance of Crossdressing, and more wives understand it. The lies and Grey areas will be our down fall every time.

          • #432951
            Roberta Broussard
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            An important point here is that women are exposed to the same culture as men were. In that women are taught that men dressing like women is very wrong and something that normal people don’t do. Just look at all of the self incrimination ad guilt most CDs go thru.  Women, family & friends  are just hanging on to the image of the man that we portrayed all of those years.  They just cant easily let that image go. When we finally decide its time to make them aware of our other image. They have a hard time letting go of the one they liked and had gotten use to.  All still laboring with the belief that our behavior is somehow wrong.   I think its just as hard for them as it is for us.

            I don’t have a lot experience here but I saw the anguish in my wifes face when  I told her. She is a girl who  likes seeing the image she is use to. It seems to be only me that enjoys seeing my feminine side right now.

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          • #433000
            Hilda Beaumont
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            My Dear Roberta,
            I can empathise with you on the look of anguish. When my wife found out and I showed her myself dressed as HildaRuth she was, not to put too fine a point on it, horrified and this led to her completely re-assessing our relationship ending in separation.
            HRxx

          • #432224
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
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            Hi Amanda, honey

            Thanks for highlighting some more grey areas!

            I addressed a lot of this with my reference to icebergs.

            There is no way people can share everything before getting married – or even in a lifetime. Humans are much too complicated.

            It is not OK to not accept cross dressing any more than any other personal attribute – although it is OK to have that clearly stated upfront as a no-no.

            Some women will nag their husbands about all kinds of things, like “I wish you wouldn’t leave your clothes on the bedroom floor”.

            Well, I did before we were married, why does being married mean you can order me about on such things now?

            >begin pointless argument.

            I’m not being deliberately controversial, as many cross dressing men think stupid things like “I’ll give it up when I get married”, or “I’ll say nothing”. I know I did.

            There’s no betrayal of trust or anything else – I didn’t disclose my love of Bourneville chocolate either.

            If cross dressing is such a big thing to a woman, then the onus is strictly on her to make that absolutely clear BEFORE marriage.

            I cannot see it the other way around.

            A man cannot predict that his wife will be accepting of cross dressing, just not in her husband.

            That simply isn’t a given any more than a man may demand that his wife dress a certain way once they’ve got married.

            So, Amanda, I’ve just ripped into the reasoning there, not you!

            Maybe I missed a point and am being selfish ‘ maybe we can refine this down a bit and end up with the truth?

            Never stop reasoning!

            Love Laura

             

             

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          • #432507
            Amanda Burton
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            Hey Laura, no problem at all sweetie, I love what you write and respect your opinions. Each of us have our own take on things that’s what’s make a healthy debate. No one is under any obligation to disclose anything to do with their past. Most females simply don’t expect their male partner to want to dress feminine, or even think that they have. It seems a tad harsh to expect the female to contemplate asking that question unless she has had previous experience of it before or suspect something. Surely the ethical responsibility lies with the male to disclose this particular passion as it has far more reaching consequences to the relationship, than the dark secret of eating Bourneville chocolate. 

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          • #432756
            Laura Lovett
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            Hi Amanda, thanks for your considered reply.

            I’ll throw the cat among the pigeons (although, as I have a Bengal, those pigeons might get rather savaged…!):

            Cross dressing does not, in and of itself, have a deep impact on relationships.

            Only people and their behaviours do.

            This is why some wives are accepting, and some are not – the person (The wife) has chosen to be unaccepting of a specific activity – moreover, she has chosen not to accept that behaviour in her husband. It’s not necessarily a prejudice against cross dressing as an activity (although, conversely, it might be!), but it’s specifically “her husband”.

            The cross dresser cannot predict whether his wife will be accepting or not.

            It’s not possible, because it is a personal thing.

            Because it’s a personal thing, it is up to the person who has a problem with it to make it absolutely clear that it’s a problem for them before “signing up” to “a deal”.

            Again, it is not the action of cross dressing that is the problem – many women love it, it’s a bit of a Marmite thing – the problem is in the mind of the person who sees the cross dresser.

            How it got to be a problem for that person depends on their personal life experiences .

            This is why I think the onus is on the woman – if there really is a good reason that the onus should be on the cross dresser (who is under huge pressure to restrain his activities due to the perceptions and social conditionings), let’s hear it!

            I’ll come back to this, as you raise other points like “ethical”, which should be explored, as this is very grey.

            Love Laura

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          • #432771
            Amanda Burton
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            Hi Laura, please don’t set your cat on me, I meant the deep inpact on the relationship, is the affect of the relationship breaking up due to a partner unable to accept their partner CD/ING. and obviously the fall out with children involved. We have the right to dress, but,many females that find this out after the marriage or a number of years together, don’t find it appealing, or even just unfortunately turns them off. Which ever way we try to justify it, it’s down to us to be honest immediately at the start of dating.

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          • #432992
            Laura Lovett
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            the affect of the relationship breaking up due to a partner unable to accept their partner CD/ING.”

            Due to the partner unable to accept.

            Nail on the head – this is exactly what I am saying.

             

            As for admitting early – yes, in an ideal world, we would, but we are (As others have said) so conditioned to believe it’s wrong that we think we can stop, pretend to ourselves that it doesn’t really exist and the rest.

            So we believe it’s not worth mentioning, because we believe it’s not really, or that we can stop – so we don’t tell.

             

            This side discussion is so interesting, we should break it out into another topic.

            I will keep the cat locked up…

            Love Laura

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          • #432999
            Amanda Burton
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            Well your such a sweetheart for keeping the cat locked away, well I’ll set it as a topic Laura.

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          • #431350
            Hilda Beaumont
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            You make good points Amanda. If you know you’re a cross dresser then you should definitely ‘fess up before forming a life long partnership. It’s more difficult if you find yourself being drawn to cross dressing for the first time after you have formed the life long relationship but the important thing in this situation is to be as honest and open about it with your SO as soon as possible. The longer you wait the more intense the trauma will be for both the SO and the cross dresser. And as you point out while cross dressing remain an area of activity that is widely seen as ‘louche’ any revelation is likely to be difficult from both sides.
            HRx

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        • #431071
          Amanda Burton
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          Love, compassion and Bourneville chocolate Laura for those nights of tears.

        • #431066
          Cindy Lou
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          As a person that lives in a country where MARIJUANA is legal and also as one who has used it to combat anxiety and depression, the word dope pissed me off, I didn’t want to sully this thread with my views so i left it alone, I mustr say I’m glad you didn’t. I guess by the same logic if you have a drink or two after a hard day you’re a boozer or a lush.

          • #431252
            Laura Lovett
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            Hi Cindy, please note that I explicitly called out dope smokers who can’t get it together specifically.

            It is legal in some parts of the world, so not inherently a bad thing, any more than an occasional drink or other relaxation aid – I was trying to make the distinction but failed!

            Abuse in any form is unacceptable, in my opinion.

            Love Laura

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          • #431258
            Sa•man•tha
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            Hi ladies, let’s keep it moving and stay on topic here please, this isn’t the place for this particular side conversation which btw is totally off topic also.  Thank you!

             

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          • #431302
            Cindy Lou
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            Well taken Samantha, thanks for the reminder.

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      • #431007
        Cindy Lou
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        The longer your no-no list, the shorter your marriage.

    • #430943
      Caly James
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      This is a great post and perspective!!!

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    • #430934
      Hilda Beaumont
      Duchess
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      Thanks very much for this post Genevieve. Your partner is very lucky. My situation is the reverse. When my wife found out about my cross dressing she found it very, very difficult and whilst she hd no objection in principle, to cross dressing, me cross dressing was a completely different matter. It changed her attitude to and affection for me completely and we have decided to go our separate ways.I become very depressed as a result but have recovered my mental health and am looking forward to living on my own and enabling HildaRuth to become a much bigger part of my life.
      HRxx

      • #431164
        Genevive Enseignante
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        Sorry to hear about you wifes reaction, it seem a bit hypocritical if you don’t mind my saying so. Hopefully your on your way to finding a more understanding partner, you have to be yourself after all.

        Love, Genevive.

        • #431281
          Hilda Beaumont
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          Thanks Genevieve, I have decided that I definitely need to be myself; thank you for the endorsement. Whether I find a new partner time will tell but I certainly aim to become an active member of the cross dressing community where I live and make friends with lots of crossdressers

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          • #431433
            Laura Lovett
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            HR, honey, I will come down and see you again – and that’s a threat!

            Love Laura

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          • #431437
            Hilda Beaumont
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            Lovely Laura
            I see it as more of a promise and have to say it will be lovely to see you again

            Love and Hugs
            HRxxx

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      • #430964
        Genevïéve
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        Hilda Ruth…

        I’m so sorry that your ‘outing’ has turned out badly. Horribly wrong actually… with your wife leaving you 😢. However….. it’s not the end of the world. Life will just be ‘different’ going forward.

        My ex-wife and I separated six years ago. (not CD related). I live on my own and for the most part can dress how, and when I want (all the time at home 🥰). My ex and I are still very good friends/confidants, soulmates actually. We see each other most weekends, and while she knows of my desire to dress femininely, there are certain aspects of such that she doesn’t want to see… makeup and bra/forms.

        It’s good to hear that you are in a good place mentally now. With most things in life, we get over our hurts and pains and carry on. We do what we have to do.

        Our feminine side is a wonderful thing. Embrace it… L❤ve it… it’s a feeling like no other.

        I wish you much happiness in the next chapter of your journey Hilda. ❤❤❤

        Huggs and much Love…

        Gen… ❤

         

        • #431282
          Hilda Beaumont
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          Thanks for your kind word Gen. I hope that eventually my ex wife and I will develop a friendship in which she excepts HildRuth and we can see one another with me en femme. I have broached this with her but she is reluctant to consider the possibility. Time will tell and I certainly intend to embrace what HildaRuth has to bring to my future life.
          HRxx

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    • #430886
      Bettylou Cox
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      Genevieve,

      Your husband is blessed to have you in his corner, and the only thing better than your acceptance would be if you would be willing to go out with him, as girlfriends. I’m also blessed with an accepting wife who hesitated to go out with Bettylou at first, but has become comfortable with the idea; and I feel closer to her now than ever before.
      I totally agree with you about keeping secrets, and when I was overcome with the Pink Fog, I came out to her as soon as I could work up the nerve to do so. And our only “gray area” is the amount I spend at Kohl’s and Ulta; if asked, I will tell, but I prefer to avoid the subject,,,and I have become much more understanding about the enormous sums she has spent on shoes in the past.
      Hugs,
      Bettylou

      • #431168
        Genevive Enseignante
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        Hello Bettylou, it sounds like you have a wonderful relationship with your wife. We haven’t been out yet because my husband isn’t ready for that right now, when he is I will surely be there with him to share the experience. About the clothes, where do I begin? We had a lot of fun shopping online together but the problem for us is that we’ve run out of room, our closets are all full!

        Love, Genevive.

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        • #431235
          Bettylou Cox
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          Hi Genevieve,

          Our “girlfriend” outings are high points in our relationship; you should start having them soon, if you can. We’ve had several luncheon dates, and one movie date, but not a lot of shopping together (although I love it when we do it). As for closet space, I could use some advice, too. Our closet is packed full, and I had to move all of my shoes to the one in the spare room.
          Hugs,,
          Bettylou

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      • #430929
        Genevïéve
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        Bettylou wrote:

        “I feel closer to her now than ever before.”

        That’s wonderful Bettylou ❤. My other-half and I are in a similar place at this point in our relationship/lives. Ever since I told her about my dressing (Aug / ’20), we’ve been much closer. She calls me ‘girlfriend’ at times… that fills my ❤ with love. It truly is a wonderful feeling!!! 🥰

        Gen… ❤

        • #431169
          Genevive Enseignante
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          So Happy for you Genevieve, it sounds like the two of you are made for each other.

          Love Genevive.

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          • #431200
            Genevïéve
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            Thank you Genevive…

            Yes we hit it off immediately 31 years ago (Christmas Eve 1989)… we are Soulmates.

            Some may ask… why then are you separated? We just needed our own space. Some people just aren’t meant to be couped up in the same house 24/7. We are both in a happier place now…

            I am so thankful for not loosing her and her friendship when I told her of my life-long desire to be everything feminine.

            Gen… ❤

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    • #430871
      Polly Stewart
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      Thanks for your wonderful post, Genevive

      I have never lied to my wife and my cross dressing experience has been shared with her from the very beginning. It has caused some disagreement but normally due to some lack of communication. I’m now at a point where I may look forward to transitioning in the future… a big decision but time or the lack of that my be the determining factor. The important thing is that one should never conceal as the rewards of honesty are to great!

      Xx Polly

      • #431172
        Genevive Enseignante
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        Good for the both of you Polly, being open from the start is definitely the best way. It’s good that we live in a time when men can more easily be open about that much more than they could have in the past.

        Love Genevive.

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        • #432254
          Riley McCort
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          Youre amazing. Made me tear up reading your posts. Thank you so very much for being so kind and understanding. Much love

          Riley 💋

    • #430833
      Genevïéve
      Lady
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      Genevive wrote:

      “I posted this in Wives and SOs section, I’m posting it here so everyone can see it.”

      Thank ❤ you Genevive… it is very helpful for us husbands / SO’s to be aware of the worries/concerns of our other halves as pertaining to our desire to wear feminine clothing. I refrain from using the term ‘Crossdressing’… to me, that sounds like we are doing something wrong.

      Yes, it is understandable that a wife would ‘feel’ deceived for her husband keeping his dressing a secret for many years. However, for many of us there is much at stake. Marriages, children, family, houses, cars etc… It takes great courage to bare our souls to our life mates. Instead of berating us, it would be better to thank us, for revealing our dark secret… as my ex-wife did.

      I told her last August of my dressing (mainly under garments and lingerie… my ‘Comfies’), and was very understanding. She thanked me for being honest with her. She was surprised (not angry) at how I could hide it for so long.

      We are separated (not CD related) but still see each other… mainly on weekends (soulmates). She accepts my desire to be feminine and to wear feminine clothing but doesn’t want to see any makeup or bra/forms… a fair compromise.

      You are a wonderful woman to accept your husband’s desire to dress. He is very lucky to have you! Big 💋…

      Gen… ❤

       

      • #431178
        Genevive Enseignante
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        Thank you for the kind words Genevieve. The thought that he had been lying to me never entered my mind, quite the opposite actually. I appreciated his courage and honesty for revealing something so intensely personal. After he told the first thing I thought to myself was how he must have felt having to suppress his desires and keeping that to himself for so many years. My first instinct was to give him a big hug and tell him I Love him.

         

        Love, Genevive.

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        • #431393
          Stevie Steiner
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          Genevive, you are a rare peach indeed.  I wish this attitude was more common.  Would it be too much to inquire about a mass cloning ???  😊

           

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        • #431190
          Genevïéve
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          If only all women were as understanding and loving as you Genevive.  😍

          Gen… ❤

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          • #431191
            Ginny Virginia
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            I know! She’s a goddess!

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    • #430823
      Cindy Lou
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      You are amazing Genevive, I love you so much.

      • #431179
        Genevive Enseignante
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        Aww, I love you too Cindy Lou.

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        • #431396
          Genevïéve
          Lady
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          ‘All you need is L❤ve… L❤ve, L❤ve is all you need…’

          – John Lennon  (R.I.P.)

          Gen… ❤

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          • #431401
            Cindy Lou
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            “There’s nowhere you can be that isn’t where you’re meant to be
            It’s easy”

            I’ll never forget where I was the moment I heard that he was shot by that pos., a terrible loss for the world.

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    • #430819
      Ginny Virginia
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      Thank you so much, Genevive, for the very kind and supportive post. Like many of us here who are heterosexual and married, in theory it should be easy to simply admit we are choosing this way to explore our more feminine side, but there is still a feeling that it is somehow taboo, so we hold back. I came very close to a breakthrough this weekend when I dressed for a virtual murder mystery game. We shopped together for the whole outfit: slinky dress, bra, panties, hose, wig. It was a fun party and I reveled in my Ginny-ness despite the character I was playing. The sex afterwards was fun and interesting, as she was dressed as a man. She did keep the bra, but told me to save the dress and panties for another time, but I am not sure all of this translates to Ginny coming out whenever she wants. I have decided to take my time and explore this with her down the road when I think the time is right. One small step!

      Hugs,

      Ginny

      • #431183
        Genevive Enseignante
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        The best advice I can give you is to simply keep communicating and make sure you don’t forget to ask her what she wants out of it. You never know, she might surprise you.

        Love Genevive.

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      • #430822
        Cindy Lou
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        You’ve got the right idea Ginny, but keep in mind to “Strike while the iron is hot”. This urgent action may or may not be the right course for you to take, nobody can say without knowing all the little details of your particular relationship, just something to keep in mind in the coming days.

    • #430812
      Stevie Steiner
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      Hi Genevive, thank you for sharing this.  Yes, I have to agree there is a lot of gray area when you ask “what sort ( or level, maybe ) of crossdresser are you?”  Certainly there is a difference between secretly dressing up at home on occasion and going out in full blown femme mode.  As far as any sort of intimate fooling around, that’s a whole different matter – it’s wrong period, and using crossdressing as an excuse for it is crap.  We all have our little secrets, but when does a small lie become a big lie become an unforgivable lie??  That depends on your partner I guess and is different with everyone.  And that’s what scares the s**t out of a crossdresser.  So they dont come out, and it just gets worse the longer it goes on.  What’s even worse, keeping this very private thing secret destroys so much trust that it shouldn’t, but I can see how it does.

      The hard part of coming out to your partner is not just hoping you will be accepted, but having to – rightly so – regain the trust.

      Stevie ❤

       

      • #431187
        Genevive Enseignante
        Baroness
        Registered On: December 19, 2020
        Topics: 3
        Replies: 36
        Has thanked: 131 times
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        You’re right Stevie, there are many flavors. Personally I did not feel like my trust had been violated. I welcomed his coming out with open arms, perhaps it helped that we had a very strong relationship in the first place and we would do whatever it takes to make each other happy.

        Love, Genevive.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #430888
        Laura Lovett
        Lady
        Registered On: March 26, 2020
        Topics: 12
        Replies: 757
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        It is very odd that keeping cross dressing a secret should be such a big deal to some women, when keeping a love of ABBA music secret is less frowned upon…

        • #431189
          Genevive Enseignante
          Baroness
          Registered On: December 19, 2020
          Topics: 3
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          Wait, are putting down Abba? I just love them, though my husband feels differently.

          Love, Genevive.

          3 users thanked author for this post.
          • #431253
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
            Registered On: March 26, 2020
            Topics: 12
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            Absolutely not putting them down, honey – exactly the opposite!

            It was many years before I revealed to my wife that I have loved ABBA since the first time I saw them on TV, winning the Eurovision in 1973.

            I was 9 years old, and captivated by everything about them – the glamour, the obvious musicality, and especially the star-shaped guitar.

            I pestered my parents to buy me one, but they bought me a cheap classical guitar and some lessons.

            That didn’t go down very well… ungrateful child that I was!

            Love Laura

            (And LOVE ABBA!!!)

            3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #430974
          Amanda Burton
          Baroness - Annual
          Registered On: January 15, 2020
          Topics: 17
          Replies: 841
          Has thanked: 6652 times
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          Never mind Abba Laura, what about Rod Stewart, now that has to be bad.

          4 users thanked author for this post.
          • #431386
            Stevie Steiner
            Ambassador
            Registered On: June 11, 2020
            Topics: 37
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            Rod Stewart would be a good warm up for opening up about …….. Barry Manilow.   Opening up about crossdressing was relatively easy after that! 😁

            2 users thanked author for this post.
        • #430908
          Stevie Steiner
          Ambassador
          Registered On: June 11, 2020
          Topics: 37
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          Hehe, but would they see the humour in “Hi honey, you have your own Dancing Queen” now?

           

          • #430940
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
            Registered On: March 26, 2020
            Topics: 12
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            Honey, I AM my own dancing queen!!!

            (The above is a true story – when I met my wife, she knew that I loved Classical music, metal and Trance – but I kept my love of ABBA a total secret for many years.

            It was only when that travesty of a movie “Mamma Mia” was released that I revealed my complete collection of ABBA albums, and the fact that I was in love with Frida from age 9, when I saw them win the Eurovision.

            Oddly enough, that was at Brighton… and if I was going to dress as any of them, it would be Agnetha 😎😍😎😍😎😍😎

            Love Laura

    • #430809
      Bianca Everdene
      Lady
      Registered On: April 11, 2017
      Topics: 19
      Replies: 638
      Has thanked: 2391 times
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      Hi Genevive

      Thanks for your wonderful post,  you are a such a rare and wonderful person, accepting this part of your husband.

      I am divorced 6 years, which was nothing to do with cross dressing, never did it during a 14 year marriage.

      For most who keep this secret it is fear that keeps us quiet. Fear of losing the most important person in our lives. As you mentioned fear of being seen as some kind of deviant. Fear of this part of us being used as a weapon to ‘out’ us if things go badly. Fear of being seen as less of a man. Fear that eats away at some, causing mental health problems. Fear of being thought of as gay (when most of us are not)or  Fear of misconceptions that we want to be a woman ( when most of us don’t). Fear of being mislabelled, judged.

      Most of us are just normal heterosexual men with a wonderful obsession, which due to socially expected norms and gender stereotypes, is seen as something ‘deviant’ by many.

      I am a hard working single parent at the moment, would love to get into a relationship with a woman again, and think I have a lot to give. But decided I am not prepared to bury this wonderful part of me again. I feel I am so much better since I have let my inner Bianca out. Feel a much more open, well grounded, empathetic, happy human being, with a fabulous fashion sense🤣🤣🤣 and a love of the exploring my feminine side. Personally I feel the world would be a much better place if more men explored this side of themselves openly. Would create a better understanding between the sexes, and more understanding can only be a good thing for a more harmonious world.

      I know 99.9% of women would balk at the idea of starting a relationship with a cross dressing man, so decided it’s just not worth all the rejection and heartache I would go through to find a hidden gem like you.

      And back to the thread of your post, I would not be prepared to keep this a secret from a prospective partner precisely because of the feelings of being deceived, which is totally understandable.

      Sorry I tend to go on and on.

      Once again thank you for contributing in the open forums, a partners perspective is always welcome. And thank you for being you.

      ❤️Bianca

    • #430807
      Honey T
      Baroness
      Registered On: October 19, 2019
      Topics: 1
      Replies: 47
      Has thanked: 27 times
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      I’m also a happily married wife of a cross dresser. You hit the nail in the head! The deception was the hardest part of the revelation after 35 years married.
      We are closer now than ever before. I feel it’s because my spouse feels loved  & accepted and no longer has secrets. There’s no fear of being exposed.
      I spent several months questioning everything about our life together though, after all he got plenty of experience lying, what else could he be lying to me about?

      Getting to know this facet of my spouse is nice. Who knew there could be such differences in someone’s personality?! We go out together often.  I’m still trying to keep her out of my makeup & jewelry etc , lol.

      it was a rough first year but I’m glad to be past it. I always say  the monster in the closet  isn’t scary after the light is on. I wish more here had faith to turn their lights on ❤️

      • #431198
        Genevive Enseignante
        Baroness
        Registered On: December 19, 2020
        Topics: 3
        Replies: 36
        Has thanked: 131 times
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        Hi Honey, you’re so sweet 😉 In all seriousness though I never viewed it as my husband was deceiving me, everyone is entitled to there own secrets as long it doesn’t hurt their partner.

        Love, Genevive.

        3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #430813
        Cindy Lou
        Baroness - Annual
        Registered On: November 18, 2020
        Topics: 10
        Replies: 427
        Has thanked: 1833 times
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        Thanks Honey, you gave me my first laugh of the day.

        ” I’m still trying to keep her out of my makeup & jewelry”

        My wife and I happily share everything we can, I’m especially happy about sharing shoes and so is she. Since my feet are half a size bigger I can help her by stretching out new shoes for her and saving her the pain of doing it herself.

    • #430804
      Amanda Burton
      Baroness - Annual
      Registered On: January 15, 2020
      Topics: 17
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      Has thanked: 6652 times
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      Genevieve, many men still hide their dressing, because of the social prejudice that still surround this activity. Many straight women don’t understand still how their partners can even do this. Being this activity is still taboo many men still hide it through fear. Total agree honesty is always the best way forward, and indeed have often said on here the first per person you should come out to is your SO. To be honest we need more understanding SO’s like yourself to come forward and speak out about life with a crossdresser. “The other side of the story” so to speak. But until crossdressing is total acceptable, the fear and guilt will cloud the honesty.

      • #431199
        Genevive Enseignante
        Baroness
        Registered On: December 19, 2020
        Topics: 3
        Replies: 36
        Has thanked: 131 times
        Been thanked: 255 times

        Luckily Amanda the times they are a changing. My daughter is 22 and her generation has no issues with sexuality in any of its forms.
        Love, Genevive.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
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