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  • #558781
    Heather Kirk
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    Registered On: September 28, 2021
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    Trigger Warning:  I post this because it has triggered me.  If this might upset you, it might be best to skip this post.

     

    I came across an article last week that said that while trans women are women, they are not female.  I was stunned when I read this.  I have always thought of myself as female and a woman.  I always felt they sort of go hand in hand.  So I spent the weekend mulling this over, trying to reconcile this.  I finally had to research it on my own. I was hoping to find an article about this on some transgender site or maybe some kind of study that was done, but I found none.  All I managed to find in that short time was some posts on Quora or similar type sites where it was asked are trans women female.  I did find a trans woman’s blog where she asked that question.  She even had a poll where she asked that question.  51% of the people that responded to her poll said yes. I was happy but then I read on.  She claimed to be shocked by the results then said she totally disagreed with that 51% that said trans women were female.  She went on to explain why she felt that way.  None of it made sense to me and there was some misinformation in her reasoning. I quit reading not too long after she said she disagreed.  I went on in my “research”, the hatred the transphobia that I found left me feeling gutted and I was crying.  My wife came to me and asked what was wrong.  When I explained it to her she told me not to listen to them that they were just transphobic and idiots. I gritted my teeth and I looked at her and asked “do you see me as a female?”  her reply was “yes”.  No hesitation, no buts…  I asked my daughter the same.  she too replied with a firm yes.  I mildly felt better.  I tossed and turn all last night with this in my head.

    My reasoning that I believe that I am female is something that my wife’s therapist said to her once.  She is the second born child and there have been studies that suggested that the firstborn sibling is almost always the most successful. In my wife’s case, being the second born she is more successful than her brother. See if you were to look at my wife, you would see the typical cis woman, but the way she walks talks, and thinks she really has more male characteristics.  Me on the other hand, I am not a large man, I have never had the full beard and hairy like an ape. My beliefs, some of my mannerisms are female.  my hands are small compared to a man, bigger than a woman’s though.  I don’t have the same characteristics as a man.  I am very much an empath and a compassionate person. I am more open to people’s emotions than most men. I don’t mean to imply that men can’t have those attributes, but most men I have met don’t.  I have even had people tell me that they think I am more feminine than I am masculine.  I guess what I am saying is that yes, biologically I was born male, but everything else about me is female.  Does biology alone dictate what makes us male and female?  There is that DNA argument as to why we will always be male or female.  To me, our DNA is only the blueprint of our external body.  Sort of like a blueprint is the framework of our house.  It’s just a building.  How we decorate it and what we put inside of it is what makes it a home.

    So My question to you is:  Are trans women female?  I will even ask, are crossdressers female?

    For those of you that don’t know me, I am a trans woman.  So this post is written from that context and my sincerest apologies if I have offended anyone.  That was not my intent.  I am trying to fight this battle that is raging in me right now and appreciate any insight you all might have on this topic.  I hope this doesn’t trigger anyone.

Viewing 24 reply threads
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    • #574032
      Jillian F
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      Registered On: May 19, 2021
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      Boy this is a loaded question and is poised to be just like the last few discussion of similar subject matter…

      There are so many variables to account for from person to person, answer to answer, interpretation to interpretation, definition to definition.

      Just in the responses so far there are an infinitesimal amount of variables to be accounted for.

      I fear this post will be taken down soon because someone will be trigger sooner. Just like in the other posts, people do not know how to adult anymore.

      Good luck!!!

       

      EDIT: I’m editing this to apologize to those people that I failed to say I was sorry to because you might be trigger by my stated thoughts and opinions.

      Ok I think I got it right now, if I didn’t I’m sorry.

      • This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by Jillian F.
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    • #574022
      Anonymous
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      No. Females have the biological ability to conceive.

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    • #562172
      Leslies Ann Gray Girl
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      Registered On: September 22, 2017
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      Hi Heather , are you female ? , yes i think you are , but whats most important is how you feel about your self . Are we a woman , probably not , we cannot conceive , we don’t have or produce eggs . Does this make us less female , no . I say being female is a state of mind more than a physical thing . We develop female characteristics ,hand movements , the way we act , movement etc. , we become female . Our minds take on a female being . This is not a spur of the moment happening , it has been it us since birth , we were born this way and its just now taking place .My thoughts , you don’t have to be on hormones , or having any medical procedures done , its all inside you , dress as you want . I wish it was easier to contemplate , i have so been at odds with myself and i am sure you have to . I finally gave in , its who i am , i am female , a woman ? , no , and i will never be . I want someone in my life , to treat me as female and love me this way , i so dream , you to ? There are people who will say this is not , i say walk a mile in my shoes , feel as i do inside , you will change your mind . I cannot change society , or there minds about me and i will not try , i am Leslie Anne , this is me and my mind will not let me change who i am , nor will yours . So , to this question are we woman ? , i say no , my mom was a woman , she had me . I feel female , what’s the difference ? , i think it has to do with the ability to reproduce , just my feelings of coarse , are you woman ? i say no , are you female i say yes , and you are just as female as any female out there . Enjoy your life , wear pretty dresses , lingerie , be sweet and girly , its you , be fem , i am . I am Leslie , a girl , here me purr .

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    • #561950
      Jill Marshall
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      Registered On: June 28, 2020
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      This crystallizes a basic question that the world as large seems to have suddenly found itself confronted with. The responses are so confused and reactionary when those who haven’t experienced this question to some degree, try to answer it–almost always in the process declaring that they are answering it for everyone else too. From my experience, and I’m only a CD not trans, you need your own answer and to be ok with certain people, from whom you should be able to expect more, just not knowing who you really are and having that distance be there.

      Most of what I have encountered, either in the world at large or in discussions among my peers, is grounded in this “gender is fact” logic thats been articulated in recent weeks–which functions in this very insensitive, unscientific and simplistic way, that you let whats between your legs be your guiding light. It is amazing that people who insist that they are very firm in themselves are possessed with the need to tell others who they are also. Among those I’ve had to endure these discussions with, their mechanism is to withhold acknowledgement–“you can call yourself whatever you want, and “I don’t care” (OH YES THEY DO), if you have these chromosomes or this between your legs, you are male or you are female.” So at best you get a phony, hostile form of permission but never acknowledgement. Those who are accepting “to a point” are also defensive of their own privelege to the same point but from the other direction, where they see non binary gender as either a contrarian delusion, or it must have some other less noble purpose than simply existing in a way that is true to ourselves. When it gets to the point where they are uncomfortable they pretend you are trying to convince them that 2+2=5. In trying to navigate these discussions, I always say that no one is disputing biology or biological nomenclature. No one, I don’t think, is arguing the facts of their chromosomes and anatomy at birth. Instead it is that one’s social and emotional and personal being exist differently or otherwise from that physical form. The reasons don’t matter, the point is that changing physical form is necessary to varying degrees in each of us to bring the social/emotional and physical into alignment and harmony. But to those who haven’t experienced that, it is all about what you are supposedly doing to them, and how they should not have to make space for you in their world. Where the friction really occurs I think, is with the implication that who they are is no more genetically inherent and no less a social construct–made up of environmental influences and responses–than who you are. Trans women in particular expose that the actual value and desirability of the social advantages that are attached to maleness are only something society stipulates to, rather than a unanimous foregone conclusion. Its quite subversive. Why would such a tiny number of people bother so many so much? I can’t figure it out.

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    • #561678
      Michelle Trott
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      Registered On: April 7, 2021
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      It may be simplistic but I think if you think you are a woman or female then you are. It really doesn’t matter what some stranger thinks to me. So in your case I think you are female.

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    • #561639
      Autumn Valiant
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      Registered On: July 14, 2019
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      Hi Heather,

      Your post and all the responses I have read have given me a lot to think about. Thank you for posting this, I know it couldn’t have been easy to share considering how upset you obviously are. (((Hugs)))

      I haven’t had a test done to examine my genes and chromosomes, but if I did I am sure the results would say I have XY chromosomes in all my body’s cells. Does that make me male? Does that make me a man?

      This is actually very hard for me to write. Not because I am worried about offending someone with my beliefs, but because I am questioning some of my own beliefs.

      Our genetic makeup determines much more than the reproductive organs we are born with. I disagree with those who say the determining factor of male vs. female or man vs woman is determined by your XX or XY or whether or not you were born with a penis or a uterus. We can argue nature vs. nurture but I am sure it is a combination of both. I was born XY but any feminine qualities that I might have exhibited as a child were “forcibly” nurtured into submission. I wasn’t asking for a Barbie doll for my birthday in the house I was raised in. Nuh-uh, no way. Man up or get beat up is pretty much how things worked in my father’s house and in the macho jock neighborhood where I grew up in the late 70’s to early 80’s.

      Heather, I believe you are a female and a woman. I don’t need to see any DNA tests. You are who you are so you only have to do one thing. Be true to yourself.

      So to answer your questions…. are trans women female? I say yes and I include the ones who aren’t physically transitioning. Are CD’s female? I will say at least partially. I am a CD, I am a man, I have some very strong feminine “undercurrents” in my soul and in my personality. Sometimes when I look in the mirror I only see the guy. Some other times I see Autumn in that mirror, even in manly mode, and sometimes…. she winks at me.

      I believe the laws of our particular countries and other sub jurisdictional regions will eventually come to reflect trans acceptance and rights. We aren’t there  yet. There is a lot of debate over definitions and the legal people tend to get paralyzed when they don’t feel they have their words in exactly the right place…. but in the long run I believe they will do what’s right.

      Hugs,

      Autumn

    • #561589
      Barb Wire
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      Registered On: September 16, 2021
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      Hi Girls!

      My head’s spinning!! (I love it when that happens!)

      Here’s a fairly recent article from the New York Times that I think is brilliant.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/opinion/trans-women-feminism.html

      I’m not even going to unravel what the author, Professor Carol Hay, is saying, but would like to put a spotlight on cis women and feminism and what they say about trans women. So, please enjoy this amazing read!

      But here’s my take.

      Back in the early 90s I worked with a very nice and kind fellow who kept our historical records in fine shape. We had some great conversations about our province’s history and he was an encyclopedia.

      He eventually got comfortable enough with me to tell me a bit about himself. Well, he finally revealed that all those hushed murmurings in the office were true. He was in fact living with a trans woman.

      So, we did what proud guys do. We pulled out our wallets and showed photos of our family. His SO was gorgeous! But that doesn’t matter. He saw her completely and unequivocally as female, no ifs ands or buts!! Good enough for me! She once came to the office and was a delight, but her eyes couldn’t hide her fears.

      Some time later, my friend was weeping. I asked what’s going on? His SO got beaten severely and there’s a police investigation. Good God!! He showed me the photos. I still feel ill remembering them. Her face got beaten, bruising was everywhere, her arms, shoulders, chest, back. My god…

      Our office would soon split apart and my friend and I parted ways to different cities. But before he went, he said his lawyer told him to prepare himself for when the judge throws-out the case. No witnesses stepped forward. F**K!

      Are trans women female? In my limited experience, the answer is an emphatic YES!

      Sorry, a bit heavy. I’m on my 3rd cup of coffee and my fingers won’t stop!

      xo Barb

       

      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Barb Wire.
    • #561583
      IsabelB
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      For those on elsewhere than UK and for those few in UK who may have missed it search bbcquestiontime for 14/10/21 to see Lord Proffessor Robert Winstons view on this subject. He is undoubtedly an outstanding authority on the subject and the answer is very clear.

      Robert Winston is a fertility specialist – that does not necessarily make him an ‘outstanding authority’ on gender or sex in the context of trans people.  He is of course, entitled to his opinion, but that doesn’t make him right – he himself indicates multiple facets to sex – something which was not pursued in the discussion.  He comes from the school of thought where only a doctor can decide if someone is trans.  Archaic and out of touch.

      Maybe have a watch of this…

      All in all, a very emotive subject this one…

      Isabel x

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    • #561552
      Lacy Satin
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      Registered On: June 27, 2018
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      Sadly I have to say No. Even with all the surgery in the world, and hormones you can take, I don’t believe it’s ever possible to fully experience life as a real female can.

      I truly believe one can have all the inner feelings of being female and feeling like a woman trapped in a man’s body. Your true sex is something that you were born with, it can be altered to give the appearance of being female, but it truly is only an illusion.

      I find nothing wrong with someone altering their body and becoming a Trans-woman but to say you are female I see as an insult to real females.

      Just my opinion. I hope no one takes offense.

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    • #561330
      Sophie Sley
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      Registered On: July 11, 2021
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      XX=Female, XY=Male, no matter what surgery we have, hormones you take, as much as we would like, you can not change our DNA. Sorry if my beliefs upset you

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    • #560939
      Dawn Wyvern
      Managing Ambassador
      Registered On: February 23, 2019
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      Ladies

      this subject has been the focus of many legal scholars, UN advisors, Gender Specialists and scientist since April Ashley was divorced in the 1960’s and the court ruling on her gender status in 1970.

      There are numerous aspects to the situation but its improved since the 60’s but will take time to reach a final solution.

      We are all individuals and have various thoughts on the subject, so may I ask you to respect each others opinions and thoughts. Remember we are an international site so what is the law or norm for one country may not be the same in another.

      Hugs

      Dawn (Admin)

    • #560768
      Connie Twirl
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      This is so subjective. Your definition of “female” may not match the definition other people are using. Some would say that if you have a Y chromosome, then you’re male, appearances to the contrary.

      I have no intention of transitioning, So, my opinion, for what it’s worth? If it looks like a horse, sounds like a horse and behaves like a horse, then it’s probably a horse.

      Love and tolerance. Each to their own. Ignore the lables. Live happy.

      Connie

      xxx

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      • #560873
        Anonymous
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        The people who would say that are clearly ignorant of modern science on the matter.  Those attitudes were popular what…back in the 60s?  Might as well bring back bloodletting and electroshock therapy too.

        I say that not to be controversial or offensive.  I hope it doesn’t come off that way.

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    • #560597
      Julie (Jules) Anderson
      Duchess
      Registered On: February 9, 2021
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      Heather,
      Yes, as a trans women I believe with all my heart you are female. Don’t lose yourself in all the hateful bigotry that has seemed to increase in the last few years. It is what is in your heart, your essence. In a moment I’ll share my beliefs further with you, but you’ll have to sit down first…LOL

      First, check out the Facebook or Instagram page of a young beautiful trans woman named Kayla Autumn Ward. She is an intelligent, passionate, and articulate ambassador for the trans community. And I believe we can all learn from her posts about her journey to womanhood, and the struggles along the way. Btw, did I mention she is gorgeous?

      My beliefs: I’m a heterosexual happily married father MTF CD who struggled my whole life to understand the female part of me (we all have that part, btw). And did I mention I’m old as dirt? Those years while making my female presentation more difficult have given me some wisdom.

      After years of struggle, reading, counseling, meditation, reflection, depression, joy, and working with a shaman I’ve come to understand everything in this life is better understood if we acknowledge the spiritual in all we do, especially trans and CD issues.

      I believe your female essence stems from spiritual issues or events that may go back many past lives. Btw, did you know that many eastern religions believe we alternate seven lives as a male and seven as a female, with the female being more evolved?

      Me? I’ve come to understand (this is where you should sit down…LOL) that my female self, Jules is the essence or soul of my vanished twin sister. A vanishing twin is one who wasn’t a viable fetus. In my case I believe she chose not to pass through to the “other other side”, choosing to stay with me. We love and protect each other as only a twin sister and brother can, while sharing this male body.

      Forgive me if I seem to have turned your question into a reply about me. Rather I use it as an example of how there is possibly much more to explaining your trans than what science offers, and certainly more than the opinions of bigots and what religions offers.

      Trust your female essence, because that is the only thing that is real.
      So be all the woman you can be, female, strong, happy, and confident. Be your true authentic self.
      Bless you, and love yourself!
      Hugs,
      Jules
      🥰👩🌈

    • #560581
      Stephanie Bass
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      Registered On: November 30, 2019
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      Hi Heather nice to meet you and wow what a post a bit more than my head cou;ld wrap around .. As im not trans  im just a crossdresser with the heart of a woman hope you work this out sounds like a hard question to answer and no real answer .. In my opinion as you present and feel as a woman does you are a woman inside then try to the best of your abilitys to present as a woman on the outside  ..

      Stephanie Bass

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      • #560613
        Anonymous
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        Just a crossdresser?

        Stephanie, you know I like you, but there’s a lot to unpack in what you wrote, haha.

        What does presentation have to do with it?  If I dress up like a gorilla, am I a gorilla?  If a gorilla dresses up like a Rach, is it me?  Whatever I am, it’s because it’s what I am, not because of what I wear.  I’m a transwoman.  I’m a woman because I’m a woman, not because of how I dress.

        But mostly, what is this “just a crossdresser” stuff about?  Are crossdressers better (not some freaky transwoman, just a crossdresser) or worse (just a crossdresser, not quite a transwoman)????

        I guess maybe I don’t understand, lol.  I’m trying though.

        • #560645
          Stephanie Bass
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          OMG girl no nothing ment by what i said thats just me im a crossdresser and I take nothing away from you or the other ladies as you are women through and through  as me just in my heart .. You are a woman no doubt inside and out not like me i cant be whole as you too late in my life to transition now and being married for 38 years as much as my heart says im a woman it will never be complete sorry if i up set you didnt mean to ..

          Stephanie Bass

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          • #560731
            Anonymous
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            Aww, Stephanie,

            No worries, I take no offense.  I honestly don’t care anymore what most people think I am.  I don’t even care what I think I am.  I only care if how I have chosen to live is working for me.

            Of course nothing you can say or do could take away from who I am or what I do.  No need to feel that way at all hon.  I don’t.

            As for it being to late, or whatever incorrectness you had said, it’s not.  If you’re still breathing, there’s still time to make changes…if you want to.  Its hard for me to imagine those types of major changes at a certain point, just as it seems to be for you, but nothing about this is impossible, for pretty much anyone.  You still can choose to live however you want, all the way up until the day you leave this world.

            Don’t think you’ve offended me hon.  On the contrary, I enjoy conversations about stuff like this, maybe especially when I see something in need of discussion.  Don’t apologize, but rather accept my gratitude for making me think.

            Hugs

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    • #560569
      PY Marshall
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      Registered On: July 21, 2018
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      Dear Lady, your heart and hormones have possibly found an equilibrium. Pyxx.

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    • #560552
      Anonymous
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      I am a transwoman.  My driver’s license says female.  My birth certificate says female.  I have a vagina.  My legal name is Rachel, I’m married to a heterosexual man, and nobody currently in my life ever knew me as anything else, even for a day.

      I’m not sure how any sane person could disagree or call me a male.  Just my opinion.

      Edit to add: wow you got me thinking on this one, Heather.  One sign of a great forum post is when I have to edit my response to it.  I’ve edited this like three times haha.  Thank you for that gift.

      Are crossdressers female?  That’s a very different question than I answered, isn’t it?  That’s what’s got me thinking so dang much.  I settled on crossdressers being awesome at times, and I’ll leave the rest of that philosophy to CDH I think.

      • #562005
        Heather Kirk
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        Registered On: September 28, 2021
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        Hi Rach,

        I am glad I made you think about this more deeply.  When I posted this question, I was wrestling with the question myself.  Since then I did more research and I found a blog post by a trans woman that wrestled with this very same question.  At the end of her post she had a simple little paragraph that answered it for me.  So, while I initially was looking for an answer, I have since really wanted this topic to be more of an opening to discuss this to start talking about this very question in our community.   After reading more of these posts I realize that even in this community I see much the same misguided arguments that I see in other places on the web.  It saddens me to see this.  Some of the posts I have been somewhat hurtful to see and brought up those feelings I was feeling when I originally posted this question.  As someone posted in the comments, maybe this isn’t the best place to post this question and maybe they are right.

        I know there is no easy answer to this question and we all have differing views on this subject and that is just how it is and will always be.  I like that it challenged you to think about it.  In the end that is all I am really asking each and every person here that responded to this post.  To stop and put aside whatever their beliefs are to just think about this question.

        For me and my experience, I am a trans woman that is also female.  That is me and my experience and no other argument will change my mind on that.

        Heather.

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    • #560539
      Sarah Du Hessisse
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      Registered On: September 16, 2020
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      Hello Heather

      Are transwomen  female they are most definitely female, there is a section of extreme feminists who will never accept that. I think you have to them pass by, the real question is do your family friends and community accept you. Are transwomen women yes they are the main thing is accept yourself, you know you are a woman. Crossdressers are women in mind – emotions but not in body, although some of us can pass off  physically. For me accept yourself on how you see and believe how you are, if the negative thinkers want to differ who cares ignore them.

      Love Sarah

      xx

    • #560438
      Sylvia
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      Registered On: October 10, 2021
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      Are Transwomen Women ?
      In my opinion , a definite YES , no doubts about that !
      I dare say some Transwomen are more Female than some women biologically born as a woman.
      Are Crossdressers Female ?
      Biologically not , but I think mentaly for most , their Feminine side is usually as large or larger then their male side.
      As a crossdresser I can only speak for myself.
      If I could have chosen , I would have preferred to be born as a woman.
      A lot of things in my life would have been a lot easier for me I think.
      This being so , I don’t consider my body to be Female , my mind however is a completely different story.
      Even at six years old when you don’t have a clue about Life itself , I was already drawn to Female attire.
      Where does this feeling come from at this age ?
      I don’t know.
      Not from any kind of experience I think.
      I mean you are only six years old !
      So you are probably born this way.
      This feeling comes from somewhere in your soul.
      So for Crossdressers , I think a large part of their being is Feminine.
      I consider myself to be Female partially , and over the last few years , I have experienced that my Feminine side is getting larger the older I become !

      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Sylvia.
      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Sylvia.
      • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Sylvia.
    • #559026
      Donna
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      For myself been transition to a woman for awhile about month ago just went through facial surgery had my stitches taken out today. Next month going in to get bottom surgery done. After that Let the HRT taking do it thing. I will consider myself a female then.

      Donna

    • #559011
      Angela Booth
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      Registered On: August 1, 2020
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      There is a similar situation here in the U.K. where some high profile women and womens groups have questioned trans rights. The issue seemed to gather speed after it was ruled that any one could self classify as trans. This afforded them the protection in law.

      This led to a large increase in prisons of self identifying which led to better conditions and privileges. Then cases where a couple of trans persons, who had histories of violence against women, were sent to womens prisons and assaulted inmates.

      The debate was then sensationalised by the media, the above groups, and high profile women about this and the trans issues where they did not want to see trans in womens spaces, such as changing rooms, ladies rooms and refuges. The media had reported them saying that ‘Womens rooms would be full of self identifying trans in changing rooms’ Then the issue of whether they are women. Stonewall got involved with defending the right to self identify and it started to make more headlines and entrenched positions. J.K. Rowling, the Harry Potter author, comments about what are women called now. She was trolled terribly on the media sites by trans activists.

      The women who were making comments would say that they had no issue with trans persons per se but the dialogue was about the fact they are still male as the chromosones dictate that and where they should be allowed.  I pointed out that it was also little known that the government had drafted up new regulations would have effectively stopped trans persons using the womens facilities. I have used the ladies room for many years with no issues but these regulations would have made it illegal. I objected to my M.P. and he replied promptly and it went up the ladder and , not because of me, I learned it had been shelved.

      Last month I was at home working away and there was a programme discussing this topic and most of the above was being discussed. It was one side against the other and getting no where. I called in and spoke to a researcher and stated who I was and my opinion. She thanked me. A couple of minutes later the phone rang and I was invited on air. In for a penny….

      The presenter introduced me and this is the gist of what I said. It is my personal opinion. I felt that self identification without any other proof can lead to the fears that had been expressed and should have some medical or psychological assessment as proof. 

      I agreed that how on earth could persons with a history of violence against women be housed in a womens prison as not offend their rights? What about risk assessments and safety of the others? It is usual to isolate such prisoners, trans or not.

      Why couldn’t a trans person who has been subjected to domestic violence be housed in a refuge. That is what they are there for. They are a last resort if there is no where else to go.

      As for womens spaces I would agree a dubious self identifying male that is in no way trans would be conspicuous in such a space and hastily removed. Have there been any reports? I haven’t seen or heard of any. It is scaremongering.

      My argument was that trans persons have been mixing for years and would never be noticed as they are just another woman. Who would actually know? 

      I said that I have used ladies facilities for years, that my employers , family friends and neighbours have accepted me as the person they see.  I live as a woman and cannot see how I am demeaning women or lessening their rights or identity. How I define myself is up to me and what the law allows, and how I am accepted in society. I believe the debate on sex and gender is pointless and what is the debate trying to achieve? It does not show any side in a good light. In my experience the public as a whole are quite accepting and respectful. 

      What this debate will do is turn public opinion against trans and make our lives uncomfortable by tarring us as perverts, women beaters and could possibly lead to violence against us.

      Stonewall and these groups should look at what they are doing to the real trans in the population who just want to get on with our lives. Stop dragging us into this debate and understand the harm they could do to us.

      We do not pose any threat and does it matter that we consider ourselves women as that is what we see ourselves as, present as and are accepted as.

      The presenter didn’t interject at any point, and neither did any of the others. He ended by stating that it was a heartfelt opinion and food for thought. The others agreed that they respected trans people and there right to live as they do, contrary to what they had said in restricting our right to live our lives.

      I had my say on the matter and felt good. Due to other issues here this has fallen out of the news.

      So to Heather, I will offer this…Whatever you see yourself as and that you are accepted is confirmation enough. If you are able to live your life as the woman you see yourself as is also an affirmation. There will be detractors but, as your poll shows, more people agree than not, whether the author agrees is neither here nor there. What is important is the people close to you accept and encourage you. Live the life you want and to hell with the rest.

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

    • #558940
      Rhapsodie
      Lady
      Registered On: March 30, 2016
      Topics: 0
      Replies: 1
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      Trans women ARE women AND female. All of these parts are what is in your mind. Try not to let others define you. You are what you believe you are.

    • #558884
      Heather Jameson
      Duchess
      Registered On: April 1, 2019
      Topics: 12
      Replies: 802
      Has thanked: 1932 times
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      I don’t care what you look like or what you wear, it’s what’s in your heart and in your head. I’ve said before, I’m the proverbial woman trapped in a man’s body and due to medical reasons can’t transition. People think people transition just for fun, no, they transition to make them look the way they feel. I don’t agree with them competing in sports against genetic women, lets be honest, men are physically stronger. There’s currently a trans woman weight lifter competing, not fair.

    • #558833
      Stephanie Kennedy
      Princess
      Registered On: March 15, 2019
      Topics: 20
      Replies: 1166
      Has thanked: 8838 times
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      Hi Heather I have been a part of the CD/TG community for many years mostly in late teen and early twenties I decided to leave it for reasons that do not need to be discussed in this open forum. I did date a post op trans woman for for a couple of months. I thought she would be excepting of my desires to cross dress when I wanted  but even she was turned of by the sight of my feminine presentation. I met her in a CD/TG night club  and she presented and looked every bit as a woman or a female if you like. MY sexual experience with her was no different than any other male and female relation. She had a vagina and all the  other attributes of any other woman .She did express so many times she would love he ability to conceive and have a baby that she felt it would complete her transformation but unfortunately for her she was not given that ability due to the sex she was born. I have read so many cis woman are not able to get pregnant for so many reasons. but science and technology are helping those in need incredibly at the speed of light. So  does ability to create life the point where you are recognized as a female, not just having a vagina. I believe this is a discussion for the TGH site .There would be more insight and much more thought. Just my opinion.

      Luv Stephanie

    • #558797
      Laura Lovett
      Lady
      Registered On: March 26, 2020
      Topics: 37
      Replies: 1529
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      A definition of “man” and “woman would be helpful, otherwise it’s all left to assumptions and feelings – which aren’t very accurate measuring systems.

      If you mean biologically, then you are what you are born and no intervention can change that.

      If it’s more a conceptual thing, then the case is already closed.

      If you feel you are a woman, conceptually and emotionally, then there’s no question really – you are.

      Scientifically, only science can measure that, and it would be against a list of criteria – so if you held an opinion poll, you’re only going to get opinions, based on… what, exactly?

      Conceptually, I would hazard a guess that many people would reason along the lines of: No womb = man.

      It’s humorously referred to in the Monty Python film, “Life of Brian”, and, outwardly, seems a reasonable measure.

      It certainly stacks up against the arguments of HRT and “I feel like a woman so I must be one” – this may be your feeling, but no-one else can feel it, is the somewhat brutal truth.

      I know that I am over-simplifying in that last sentence – and I hope not to have trodden on any toes – but the evidence is the important thing.

      Evidence starts with good definitions and empirically measurable criteria, otherwise you’re just stating an opinion – which, as the poll indicates, over half of respondents didn’t agree with – which is fair, since it is only opinions. Opinions are like bottoms. Everyone has one, but not all are worth sharing…

      Un-trigger yourself, honey, and get a medical certificate or something that verifies your status – then people can argue with the certificate issuer (who should be a trusted authority and thus harder to dispute).

      Love Laura

      • #558811
        Heather Kirk
        Lady
        Registered On: September 28, 2021
        Topics: 2
        Replies: 10
        Has thanked: 22 times
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        I can agree with you that it is just opinions.  Because really that is all we really have to go upon.  As far as science, just because they say this makes a male and this makes a female doesn’t mean it is right.  A lot of therapists still consider being transgender the wrong way.  As far as your statement, no womb = man.  what of a woman that is born without a uterus?  does that make her a man?  what of intersex people?  many times medical science (ie doctors) force their family members to assign them to be male.  I have read many stories of intersex people that were forced to be male but later changed because they never were male. they were female.

        in the end, you are right. it is going to come down to what the individual believes.  thank you for taking the time to reply.

        • #558937
          Laura Lovett
          Lady
          Registered On: March 26, 2020
          Topics: 37
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          Has thanked: 4724 times
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          So the debate really is gender, not biological sex.

          The main issue then is how the question is framed, as the average Joe really doesn’t know the difference.

          Gender is a construct, so open to interpretation and a valid field for argument.

          To be of the female gender, or somewhere on a sliding scale – or to be whatever gender you choose to be on a given date is up to you, and not up for question by anyone else.

          When I go out en femme, most people I interact with treat me like a lady, and that’s how it should be – or rather, that’s part of the enjoyment!

          Biology is a science, albeit a somewhat messy one, and best left to experts rather than opinion polls.

          I agree – even experts can get it wrong – and I wasn’t trying to present the “womb” argument as fact, rather as a typical assumption that someone might make: I come across that attitude in a lot of men. Probably Python fans…

          Love Laura

           

    • #558792
      Cassie Jayson
      Duchess
      Registered On: September 29, 2019
      Topics: 36
      Replies: 745
      Has thanked: 1626 times
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      I am sorry Heather. I think about the question you propose and the more I think abut it the more mixed up I get, starts to make my head hurt. It is like the question asked on another forum recently -what do you call yourself – transgender, bisexual, questioning, or what. sometimes I think of myself as just a crossdresser and sometimes on the road down the trans line, looking into hrt.
      So to answer your question I think some trans women are female and some are not, this step is is not just in your head but deep in your soul. Like my example of where I am, some trans women waver back and forth and some are solidly where they are
      Yes it is making my head hurt thinking about this.
      . . . .Cassie

      • #558796
        Heather Kirk
        Lady
        Registered On: September 28, 2021
        Topics: 2
        Replies: 10
        Has thanked: 22 times
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        Hi Cassie,

        Thank you for replying.  I understand what you mean.  It makes my head hurt and I am suffering a large amount of dysphoria over it. As I stated it kept me awake all night trying to reconcile this.  I can certainly agree with you that some trans women are female and some aren’t.  I am starting to formulate in my head that like “transgender” being an umbrella term for gender identity, I starting to think that being male or being female can be viewed the same way.  My wife is definitely more masculine than I have ever been, but that doesn’t necessarily make her a man.  I have always seen myself as a woman, and as a female.  I have never seen myself as a man or male.  It just cuts across the grain for me.

        Good luck on your journey.

        Heather

    • #559381
      Donna
      Lady
      Registered On: January 17, 2021
      Topics: 165
      Replies: 3962
      Has thanked: 22938 times
      Been thanked: 14766 times

      Thank you Lisa

      big hugs

      Donna

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