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  • #412999
    Jennifer McCrennaugh
    Participant
    Registered On: July 18, 2019
    Topics: 8
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    In a few days it will be 25 years since my wife and I had “the talk.” We were less than 6 months married and I had overestimated my ability to live without crossdressing. It was a shock to her and many tears and negotiating sessions over the years followed. She still loves me (and I her) but after all this time all she’s willing to grant me is some underdressing in pantyhose. The conditions and limitations that we agreed to kind of fell to the side. (both our faults I believe-life can get in the way can’t it?) Anyway, I can’t keep going like I have and it’s time to bring up once again what has always been an awkward subject between us. (truly wish it weren’t) Any advice or encouragement (or prayers) would be appreciated.

    -Jen

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    • #428092
      Autumn Valiant
      Duchess
      Registered On: July 14, 2019
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      Hi Jennifer,

      After reading your update I suggest that you purchase something silky for you to put on after eating some chocolates and perhaps sipping your favorite beverage while relaxing in a tub with a bath bomb the next time she is out.

      hugs

      Autumn

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    • #417920
      Jennifer McCrennaugh
      Lady
      Registered On: July 18, 2019
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      Hello everyone. Thanks for all the comments and advice and encouragement in response to my priginal post. An update. So my wife and I had another round of “The Talk” this week. And as much as I love a happy ending I can’t yet report one here. We just can’t see eye-to-eye on this issue.

      It is very hard to have such an integral part of oneself rejected by someone, especially by someone you love. But, in truth,  it is only A PART of me she is rejecting. In marriage partners often fail each other in vaious ways. (Heaven knows at times I haven’t been there for her as perfectly as I should have been.) I do have rights as a human being and as a crossdresser, I know this. And by denying me some of these rights she is in the wrong. BUT in my opinion a marriage (or any relationship) must be about more than making sure one’s rights are always protected. Sometimes it’s just as important to give each other grace enough to forgive the mistakes. Hoping (and working) always for a better day ahead.  That’s where I find myself. Injured, even wronged perhaps, but holding on for a better day.

      I have seen some of you lovely people get far too emotional and at times quite short with each other in this thread. But sniping and arguing makes no sense to me no matter how well intended. (And I think it was well intended-all of it) But even where we differ we should always remember to be charitable toward each other. After all, we’ve got enough people against us already.

      You are all wonderful. I am SO lucky to be part of this community.

      -Jen

      • #428520
        Mary Jane
        Lady
        Registered On: September 30, 2020
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        Perhaps a compromise of you given space to dress when she isn’t around.

        It’s obvious she doesn’t feel comfortable with it in her presence. We can’t force our will upon the other. Nor she hers to you.

         

         

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    • #414817
      Lee Ann Rakers
      Lady
      Registered On: August 18, 2019
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      All I can offer you Jen is prayers.

      And I’m an awful Catholic.

      Lee Ann

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    • #414725
      Mika Malone
      Duchess - Annual
      Registered On: November 11, 2020
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      Jennifer, I definitely think you should talk to your wife again. I’ve been married 19 years. Before we got married, I mentioned more than once that I was a lesbian in a male body. Crossdressing wasn’t necessarily on my mind even though I recognized myself as being gender fluid. Fast forward nine years and I asked my wife if she would mind if I started underdressing. That was no big deal to her as long as my choices were masculine when we were going to be intimate. I felt like that was an easy restriction and underdressed 24/7 for the next ten years within her more than acceptable restriction. This fall, I started planning to attend a cosplay event and Pride Fest with my daughter with the intention of crossdressing at each of them. She had no problem with that because it was going to make my daughter happy. The thought of going to those events all girlie was all I could think about. That’s when the pink fog started to sink in. I knew deep down that I wanted to crossdress more. A lot more. I actually asked my daughter first if it would make her uncomfortable if I crossdressed at home (probably because she was already so excited about me dressing at those events). As I guessed, she was fine with it but with her own restriction of as long as it wasn’t too revealing. I used that as the conversation starter with my wife. I told her that our daughter said she would be fine with me Crossdressing around the house , I really wanted to, and what did she think about it. She said that was fine but she was concerned about confusing our other daughter who is a special needs kid. She struggles with severe autism and I understood where she was coming from. I know our special needs kid doesn’t see things in a judgmental way or label things as boy things or girl things and wanted to be sure my wife wasn’t just using that as an excuse to curb my desire to dress. She said it wasn’t. Then she said that she didn’t want to go out in public with me if I was dressed because she didn’t want to have to deal with any negativity if it arose. I said that I didn’t plan to except for those events and possibly Halloween. Five seconds later, I changed my mind and said I did want to do it publicly and I didn’t expect her to be out there with me unless she ever changed her mind. I suppose what I’m getting at is that you need to be as honest with her as possible. Even thinking ahead about what you might want further down the road. Outside of this particular situation, I learned that in negotiations, you should always ask for more than what you would ever expect to get. And I have gotten some incredible outcomes from this beyond what I ever thought possible. My wife has really been accepting beyond what I had imagined and her restrictions are very reasonable and easy for me. Oh, side note, my special needs kid is fascinated by my makeup and heels. I don’t think the skirts and dresses will be an issue. My pink wig, well, she wasn’t crazy about that and said, “Bye bye hair.” Hopefully, she doesn’t mind my “proper” wig. But if so, I can do without it at home and just wear it when I go out. Good luck to you. I hope everything works out well.

      Hugs

    • #414715
      Olivia Livin
      Lady
      Registered On: October 22, 2018
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      Good luck and best wishes going forward Jennifer. Hopefully for both of you she has relaxed her opposition to your wants and needs.

      I personally would not continue in a DADT relationship, I strongly believe in honest communication and mutual compromise, of which DADT is neither. Unfortunately seperating over this issue, the partner would likely use it as grounds for divorce and the BS courts would award support simply for us wanting to live as our truer selves.

    • #414620
      Jennifer McCrennaugh
      Lady
      Registered On: July 18, 2019
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      Hi Everyone. I’d like to thank you all for your thoughts, advice and well wishes. Perhaps in my original post I didn’t make things as clear as I’d wish. When my wife and I had “the talk” twenty five years ago it’s true her response was not as I’d hoped. But there were some concessions made. Basically it was a classic DADT situation. Over the years however, raising kids (including a child with special needs), paying the bills, etc., my crossdressing kind of had to be pushed off the radar (helped by one or two dreadful purges) and pretty much devolved into simply underdressing in pantyhose. (though I have always needed more) That’s what I hope to address in the next couple of days. To get some of the negotiated compromises restored as well as her OK to begin to meet others at events, support groups and that kind of thing. She really is a great and loving wife but this subject just makes her nervous. I don’t expect everything to be settled right away and know it’s likely to be a process for both of us. So fingers crossed for us. And thanks again. What a great bunch of gals you all are! I am blessed!

      -Jen

    • #414619
      Regine Rich
      Princess
      Registered On: October 9, 2020
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      Hi Jennifer.
      As others have said, communication is key, and, she just may surprise you, mine did.
      If you first broached the subject 25 yrs ago, I dont imagine she has ever forgot,
      At any rate, we are here to support you, in any way we can.
      Hugs, Regine

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    • #414535
      Stephanie Flowers
      Ambassador
      Registered On: June 26, 2017
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      With many years together it shows a compassion and understanding  in your relationship and I’m sure you have faced many challenges. You opened quite early in your marriage something I wish I had. This side of your relationship certainly can be difficult and overwhelming.  Over years things could show change or for some not or as well as one would hope. But now 25 years and basically a life together….yes that talk just may be needed. It may surprise you on how she might feel about it. I was in married close to 40 years before revealing myself with this passion. Telling her when 1st married I don’t know how things were be. All I do know things are cautiously working out and alot to do is how strong we’re have bonded over the years. Growing through our married obstacles of family, careers her not wanting anyone to know were important and reasons why I didn’t reveal myself earlier. But as we have aged in our our relationship those issues no longer are a problem so I believe the older we become the more things could be acceptable especially for a journey to something very special. All I’m trying to say you, me, our wives  we have all matured over the years and we all have faced the good and the bad, an acceptance and understanding is never better than now.. yes its time to have that little talk   best to you…

      Stephanie 🌹

    • #414483
      rebekka moore
      Lady
      Registered On: January 7, 2017
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      This is so difficult and frustrating.  Why does this have to be something we have to “negotiate” for?  Negotiating just means there is something we (honestly both) parties have to give up, to sacrifice.

      I believe the majority of us if not all of us, dress just because we want to.  It’s part of our being, our minds, our genetic makeup.  Just like anyone who is gay/bi or other, they did not ask to be that way.  It is just who they are.

      Sorry, I’m ranting today.  I’m in that same boat.  I can dress and groom (in as much as I do) and put up with the fact that she hates it, but I have to sacrifice any intimacy with my wife.

      Sigh.

       

    • #413528
      Robyn Devine
      Duchess
      Registered On: October 24, 2020
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      Hi Jennifer

      That is definitely a tough position to be in.  A marriage is all about compromise for sure.

      Advice?  Be respectful of her wants and needs of course, YET, stand strong so that you can have your wants/needs met as well.  That’s not a selfish thing.  We all have them, and we all have the right to attain them should they be that important to us.

      Wish you the best

      Robyn

       

    • #413383
      Bettylou Cox
      Duchess
      Registered On: May 26, 2019
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      Hi Jennifer,

      No two situations will be quite the same, but since she already knows, and hasn’t left, you have some advantage. For us, it was 50 years of marriage when the Pink Fog overwhelmed me. And like every other wife, she first thought I must be turning gay in my old age. After assuring her that I wasn’t, that she was still my one-and-only, and that I wasn’t transitioning, we got down to The Talk. I explained that Dressing was something I just had to do, and I didn’t want to hide it from her. I told her she could set the limits for me and I would accept them if she would let me Dress openly. She agreed, and was very generous, with only one prohibition other than keeping it private…and she recently relaxed that one. I’m luckier than most, but my wife does understand the concept of getting in touch with one’s feminine side, and it helped a lot. Good luck to you.

      Hugs,
      Bettylou

    • #413314
      Cath N.
      Baroness
      Registered On: June 18, 2020
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      Hello there. Damn, that’s a tough spot to be in. She is obviously thinking she has compromised as you have gone 25 years and you haven’t approached her to change the deal. Have you stuck to the deal throughout all this time and just wore what you had agreed on? What has changed that you want to change that? I am asking because she will ask and you need to be prepared. This will keep being an awkward subject the longer you treat it as such. It won’t magically improve. Now how to approach it.

      By sitting down, when she is not stressed, on a chilled day, when you are not expecting any visitors, not on a special day like birthday/anniversary/etc and say I need to talk to you about something. And spill it all. Ask her if she can listen first to you while you talk and she can ask her questions afterwards. And have a clear thing that you are asking of her. Eg, I would like to wear some panties twice a month/week or whatever. If you start going with, I don’t know what I am asking you to do/think about, you are creating an unknown in her life. If you don’t know, it’s not her job to know.

      Now saying all that, she is well within her rights to say no. So be prepared for the compromise and have one in mind already to propose. She might already be at the limit of what she will deal with. But you won’t know if you don’t ask. Who knows? It might not be a big deal to her these days. Stranger things have happened! Good luck!

      • #414510
        Laura Lovett
        Lady
        Registered On: March 26, 2020
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        Why do you think it is within a wife’s rights to say what her husband can or cannot wear?

        I mean, seriously?

        Love Laura

         

         

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        • #414794
          Mandy Wife
          Baroness
          Registered On: September 12, 2019
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          It’s not a case of one person dictating to the other what they can or can’t wear, it’s about having a discussion, in a calm way so express that one side is unhappy and is looking for more in a way that is mutually comfortable and does not cause distress.

          No-one is saying it’s the same as asking permission like a child would ask if they could have a cookie out the cookie jar, but it’s similar to me saying I’m going out for a night out with the girls (no problem) but I come downstairs in an extremely revealing top and ridiculously short skirt planning on getting stupidly drunk and having a wild time that is going to upset my husband – just like him saying every week he wants to go out on his motorbike for a ride, no problem, BUT to be gone 12-13hrs a day every weekend is a problem – it’s all about finding the balance that works for BOTH parties and I commend the OP for asking for help  and advice on how to broach what they already know is a touchy subject rather than wading in with both feet which they know will cause upset which will probably lead to arguements, and no-body wants that

           

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        • #414677
          Bettylou Cox
          Duchess
          Registered On: May 26, 2019
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          Laura,

          Speaking for myself (so as not to be hypothetical) I can/could defy my wife’s wishes, and do as I please; and I have done so a few times, early in our marriage. But that is not a good way to build a relationship (and it cuts both ways). When we had The Talk, I made it clear that I could not, and would not quit Dressing…but neither did I wish to upset her unduly if a compromise could be worked out. In my case, it could, and over the course of time my wife has learned to accept Bettylou as the real me.

          Bettylou

        • #414563
          Anonymous
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          Because a relationship is a two way street , opinions , compromise & solution finding , we all have said or will say to our partners/ wives ” no” at some stage….it’s selfish & controlling to have everything one’s own way all the time .

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        • #414538
          Cath N.
          Baroness
          Registered On: June 18, 2020
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          Two reasons: because, until now, 25 years in, he never told her that tights is not the only thing he would like to wear in front of her and when he does, she might think that he is trying to move the goalposts on what he looks like. And we all know where her mind might go, as in, where are you going with this etc? And second, it’s not just what he is wearing, is it? For a lot of you, (majority?) you go down the wigs, prosthetics, makeup, accessories etc. That’s not what he is wearing. That is what he is trying to appear as. So yeah, she does have a say.

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          • #414550
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
            Registered On: March 26, 2020
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            Actually, no.

            If the women has that right, then so does the man.

            You are basing all of this on stuff that might happen, not facts.

            You need to find out what the facts are first – she might think all sorts of things, and so might he.

            How he chooses to present himself is as much his business as how you choose to present yourself is yours.

            Women wear prosthesis and wigs too – I have had many interesting conversations with women about them.

            It’s not that men do this, is it?

            It’s specifically your husband.

            There are 2 people involved here, not some trophy war.

            Love Laura

             

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          • #414554
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
            Registered On: March 26, 2020
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            Drat – my edit timed out…

            I made changes to make my post less confrontational – but this is a very emotional topic you’ve picked up on – thank you.

            I can’t help but wonder why women are posting in here though – I find some of these answers emotionally upsetting, especially in the way they present some of our issues.

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          • #414698
            Cath N.
            Baroness
            Registered On: June 18, 2020
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            Why do I post here? Isn’t this the relationship sub? Are you suggesting it is not my place to post? I am sure the admins would have corrected it already if I was in the wrong section and they would have removed my comment.

            I am sorry you feel my posts are confrontational, I am being honest. If honesty is not your bag, you are welcome to not bother reading what I am posting. But I am not going to mince my words and tiptoe around the truth. Because I wouldn’t think anyone would waste their time, or anyone else’s who bother to type a reply, to post something and require lies as answers. Jennifer has a very valid problem and has no solid answers from her wife because, in her own words, the subject is awkward to discuss. And therefore, I gave her an honest opinion of what is going on in her wife’s head. Ultimately, if you read my post, I said all she can do is try to normalise the subject and ask the questions. You think this is confrontational? You asked a question. I gave you an answer. You didn’t like my answer? Fair enough, feel free to ignore it. But don’t try to delegitimise my answer because you find it rude. You don’t understand that I am with you: we all have the right to be who we want to be. And to be with who we want to be with. If a crossdressing husband is not who a wife wants to be married to, who are you, or me for that matter, to say that she doesn’t have that right? Hope you didn’t find this answer rude as well, but if you did, hey ho.

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          • #428224
            Bettylou Cox
            Duchess
            Registered On: May 26, 2019
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            Cath N wrote: “If a crossdressing husband is not who a wife wants to be married to, who are you, or me for that matter, to say that she doesn’t have that right?” THAT is the heart of our problem; for some wives, simply being a CD is a deal-breaker – something we are desperate to avoid. But as we all know, quitting is impossible, and many of us (like myself) were enveloped by the Pink Fog later in life and marriage, after many years of suppressing the urge. We could (and IMO should) have outed ourselves before making that life-long commitment…but we can’t do it retroactively, and there’s the dilemma: Confess, and hope for the best, or stay in the closet and hope she never finds out. Which is the lesser of two evils? The answer is far beyond this old girl’s ability to provide. I chose door #1 and got lucky; I can only hope that you other girls who haven’t yet decided will do as well.

            Hugs,
            Bettylou

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          • #417583
            Cindy Lou
            Baroness - Annual
            Registered On: November 18, 2020
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            Here’s that tough love like you are so fond of, you are bitter that’s why you post here.

          • #415438
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
            Registered On: March 26, 2020
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            Cath N, can we go back a bit – I am really not sure how all the confusion arose, but am darned well going to bring the love back to the party.

            Let’s stick to single points – I know we’re all fundamentally good people offering the best advice and support that we can.

            My central issue was with a statement that seemed to imply that a wife may have full control over what her husband wears.

            Surely no-one believes this? I must have read it wrong?

            It’s not in any marriage contract – and I have been to hundreds, probably thousands of weddings.

            There are only a few circumstances under which clothing may be dictated. Military service, for example. Costumes in a play.

            Yet, when I picked this point up, I’m told that actually, what I believe to be true isn’t?

            That women do have this right?

            Because of fears of what it might lead to?

             

            So, did I misunderstand that core sentiment?

            Or do women actually believe it to be true?

             

            My mind is so boggled by this – I really want to understand whether I’ve completely mis read it, or whether the arguments were valid, and we still need to get to the bottom of this misunderstanding on both sides.

            One piece at a time though – let’s aim at clarity and understanding.

            We’re all lovely people here 😍😍

             

             

            Love Laura

             

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          • #414797
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
            Registered On: March 26, 2020
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            You’re right, communication is difficult, especially around this sensitive subject.

            There’sno problem with opinions – everyone has one, and I make no judgement on opinions.

            I Urban myth presented as fact goes beyond opinion, however.

            Opinion is one thing, implying, nay, stating as “fact” that one person in a relationship has the right to tell the other what they may or may not wear is a red rag, especially on a CD forum – not to mention incorrect, as I have stated.

            I now seem to be perceived as some kind of monster for pointing out this fundamental truth, and comments are being aimed at me instead of the points!

            I don’t mean to upset anyone, but I do not mince words either.

            The plain fact is that both husband and wife have rights, and they are equal.

            Let’s stick to the points and stop ad hominem comments, which I am sure are against forum rules.

            Love Laura

             

             

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          • #414568
            Anonymous
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            You are extremely confrontational in your replies , perhaps they find your responses ” emotionally upsetting” as you do theirs.

            For me having some female insight and opinions is helpful….I may not agree but it’s still educational

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          • #414593
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
            Registered On: March 26, 2020
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            Tiffany, this is not true.

            I am not usually confrontational at all, let alone extremely so.

            I know most ladies here will confirm this.

             

            Your post is a very confrontational one, by the way.

            You have not substantiated your accusation.

            Please retract your comment or validate it.

            Thank you

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          • #414607
            Anonymous
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            We have our opinions , you admitted you wanted to make your comment less confrontational, I agreed with you in finding it confrontational

          • #414815
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
            Registered On: March 26, 2020
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            I “admitted” that I wanted to make one reply less confrontational.

            I hate ad hominem comments, but you told me that I am extremely confrontational in my replies, which is very different.

            You have told me that I am extremely confrontational.

            This is patently not true.

            Please get a grip.

            As I have said, this is a very emotional topic, and everyone, including me, is entitled to their opinion.

            I do not deny anyone that right, but I will not mince words around fallacies and untruths.

            Please stick to addressing the subject matter, as I am attempting to do, and refrain from naming and shaming

            I have never had this kind of issue in a discussion before, but I am determined to see it through to proper understanding and peace – admins permitting!

            There’s too much confusion caused by imagination and “what ifs” here.

            For example, I have never said that women shouldn’t be here, I only questioned it – and this was blown out of proportion.

            So I will defend my corner of truth and love and stick to the subject, not tell others that their behaviour is unacceptable because they haven’t read replies properly.

            Love Laura

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          • #415007
            Anonymous
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            Thank you for your judgement most appreciated

          • #415195
            Laura Lovett
            Lady
            Registered On: March 26, 2020
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            Tiffany

            Your first comment in this thread was:

            “You are extremely confrontational in your replies”

            Sorry, but to then call me judgemental is a total joke.

            I am not being judgemental.

            What is controversial or opinionated about saying that a relationship is a 2 way street?

            Let me remind you of the point that I have been arguing about (in the intellectual sense of “arguing”)

            The original poster stated, as if fact, that women may tell their husbands what they can or cannot wear.

            My argument has been, throughout this sad and unnecessary thread, that this is totally wrong – it works both ways.

            If a woman really is entitled to decide what her husband wears, then a husband is also entitled to tell his wife that, surely?

            None of what I have said is controversial, but common sense, if slightly emotionally heated.

            As for judgemental, your posts have only been judgements on mine – so thank you for that.

            And thank you for your kind attempt to bring this to a peaceful conclusion instead of paying into me with another ad hominem attack.

            Oh, wait.

            Laura.

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    • #413291
      Seren
      Baroness
      Registered On: March 2, 2020
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      Hey Jennifer

      Like Rei I can’t really offer any advice, but am sending hugs and positive vibes your way.

      (Fwiw I think my wife and I will be on 25 years next summer…)

      Seren xx

    • #413286
      Rei Durden
      Baroness - Annual
      Registered On: October 11, 2020
      Topics: 19
      Replies: 791
      Has thanked: 4885 times
      Been thanked: 3194 times

      Hi Jennifer.

      I can’t offer much in the way of advice, but plenty of support and encouragement I can for sure!

      This is obviously causing you distress and as your wife has known for years you won’t be breaking any new ground there.

      After being married for 25 years you both must have what it takes to make a relationship work (so depending on the levels of honesty and communication between the two of you in all other areas of your life,) things will hopefully go way better than you expected!

      I am wishing you all the best!

       

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