Women in mens clothes? but men in womens clothes?

This undoubtely is a timeless argument! but how do YOU feel about it?

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  • I am angry, its unfair and it shouldnt be this way
  • I have no opinion on this, i am neutral
  • I am happy for Genetic girls to wear 'mens' clothes
  • Other ( please comment below )
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    • #393514
      Mary Priscilla
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      I am happy the way it is.  There is way too much chatter these days regarding people who want or insist on everything fitting into their definition of “normal.”  Of course, that is utter nonsense.  I, for one, celebrate diversity.

    • #393360
      Patty Phose
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      We can dress in whatever we want. It’s in our minds that we can’t, which helps us rationalize why we don’t.

    • #393210
      Marlene Roberts
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      You are so lucky to have such a wide variety of GG friends who want to dress you up. I would love that. For me it is just my very understanding and helpful wife.

    • #392874
      Anna Christ
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      This is a good one.

       

      It is unfair but its the world we grow up in.

       

      I have only a few women that would not want me dressing up as a women.

      But most women think its fun & want to dress me up..

       

      But again its thee world we have grown up in.

       

      Hugs.

      Blessings.

      Anna

    • #392270
      Davida Mae
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      Hummm I’ve heard this statement multiple times since I started Dressing just a couple of years ago. I grew up with a household of sisters. I never had an impulse to wear any of their garments. At that time who wore what was very distinct. They would leave the house for school wearing their skirts and dress but at the bus stop they would be wearing Levi’s, Corduroy pants. In the beginning the school would send them home ( they had their battles of name calling and other kinds of ugliness) but they weren’t the only girls doing it. I do remember that … after awhile it wasn’t a taboo anymore. But there definitely was a period where it was unacceptable and the girls took a great deal of harassment

    • #391649
      Molly
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      I would be angry about this except I’d be concerned that the societal response would be to re-impose restrictions on the women/ladies/girls.

      Then I’d have to be angry for everyone.

      I’d be happy if it wouldn’t throw my dearest for a loop every time I wanted to wear something ultra girly as her’s is the only opinion that really matters to me.

      -Molly

    • #389779
      Paula F
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      Most of the time I don’t think about it much, but there are times I have denounced very vocally denounced it as hypocritical and even a little reverse sexist.  It is just something that should not be tolerated.

      PaulaF

    • #386905
      Lacey Faradae
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      I’m totally fine with it actually,  the taboo that goes is there makes dressing up as a girl more exciting and erotic. And as for girls that dress more nutural to masculine, I find that attractive… I  suppose that gender swapping is just appealing to me. Especially when it comes to strong dominant women…

    • #386890
      Lucinda Hawkns
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      nicely put,   wish i could dress up and go out with out being called names or what ever.   just let me dress up and have my fem time being a woman i should of been.   yes woman wear manly cloths and nothing is said about it but when men wear a dress its not right? what what a min woman wear men cloths so why can not men wear female cloths ?   well guess society has to wake up and realize that there is more cross dressers then they know of.

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    • #386697
      Jennifer Lynn
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      It is unfair, society’s “rules” were set long ago by puritanical ideologies and way too many people think these morals are set in stone and can’t accept times and people change. Girls like us have to either accept the ‘norm’ remake our own rules and live and dress in whatever fashion we wish. Let the ‘normal’ people have their views and lifestyles while we move forward for each other and future girls to follow.

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    • #386621
      Patty Phose
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      Why can’t men dressing in anything they want? I do.

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    • #386597
      Stephanie
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      ok, this may get me kicked out, but it does need to be said.  I am fully, 100% man, and I am now a full time cross dresser, completely heterosexual.  (I know, no boys in the girls room)  I am of the generation of women making inroads it the redesigning of mens clothing to fit their own flair.  and men were relegated to the dull same color cloths, plain o Joe and then only given two options, bad or worse.

      but rather than sit on my but and complain, I decided to take action… I started wearing what is considered women clothing in protest. If women can dress like men and not lose their identity then I can wear women clothing and not lose my identity.  I actually believe I have gained more of me by dressing like this. (more on that later)

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      • #386619
        stephanie plumb
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        Mmmmm ……  I would just like to point out that there is no such thing as a 100%man.    You have a female X chromosome, without which you wouldn’t be here.

        Is a man really a man or is he a woman in disguise?   Interesting thought.  And the answer is no where near as straightforward  as you might think.  One which I will elaborate on later.

        Stephanie P.

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    • #384048
      Suzette York
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      i am happy that cis-females can dress as they wish most of the time.  i do feel that we should not really judge anyone and we should all be free to make our own choices and do what we feel most comfortable doing including wearing what we like.  All as long as we are not hurting others.  It is really amazing to me that there are so many people who are uncomfortable (insecure?) unless they are imposing their own narrow ideas of morals and the way people should act on all around them.  i really think they must be pretty unhappy in their own lives that they focus all their attention on the details of everyone else’s personal life.

       

      peace and love to all,

      suzette

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    • #384038
      Tammie Swenson
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      Araminta,

      I posted on a previous topic on this forum about an interesting article about Genderizing clothes. B4 WW a bright PINK color was considered to be a BOY’S COLOR and BLUE was considered to be a GIRL’S COLOR. After WWII, due to mass marketing advertising this previous color norm was SWITCHED.

      https://images.app.goo.gl/aqmtiF4njtUWK9zW8

      Below is an article about FDR WEARING A DRESS.

      https://medium.com/@NewAgeNews/why-is-president-franklin-d-roosevelt-wearing-a-dress-83fba3549523

      HOW I happened upon this Information is another story. About 10 years ago b4 I resumed being dressed in public as a Female, some thing I hadn’t done since 8th grade. I was attending a CW reenactment event as a visitor, going into one of the reenactor equipment and uniform providers, 2 young “Girls” in CW Period attire and very curly period hair came running out of the tent doorway, that had a table full of Period uniforms just inside the tent doorway, with their arms outstretched thus pulling the uniforms off the tables as they ran out. After I got into the tent i noticed the Checkout counter at back of tent and the checkout clerk. I told her about the “girls” , she said SORRY they are my sons in Period TRUE Children’s attire, then she handed me a paper Flyer that said This is a childhood photo of a future President,,,who is it?  (It was the attached photo of President Franklin Roosevelt)  the back of Flyer said Franklin Roosevelt below which was Information about Boys and Girls being dressed the same until a boy got his 1st pair of short britches. Followed by the URL where this shop owner had gotten the information and the photo. (Both I’ve included in this post)

       

      Below is how I came to live as a Girl from end of 2nd Grade thru start of  8th grade, when GG girls start getting their boobs.

      *****************

      I had more Girls as friends during 1st grade & on in elementary school. My best friend was a Karen . Usually we would play at her house after school. She lived next door to me thus we would walk the 3 blocks to school and home from school.

      One Saturday morning about 11am just after after we started 2nd grade (we both were 6 years old @ start of 2nd grade), Karen’s mom said to me Jammie, go home, Karen has to have lunch & get ready for her 1st Beginner Ballet class at 1pm Karen said “mommy I WON’T GO, I want to play dressup with Jammie like yesterday, why can’t he go with me?” He looks so much like little girl when I pulled one of my frilly SUNDAY school dresses over his head in my playhouse yesterday for our tea party THEN she starts crying

      Karen’s mom said “Little Boys don’t take ballet classes, and I’ve all ready paid for your classes, your 2 required pink leotards and tights and 2 pairs of ballet shoes YOU WILL GO TO CLASS” ! I WON’T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER!!!

      Karen’s mom said to me “Jammie do you want to be a PRETTY GIRL again all afternoon with other GIRLS and go to the class with Karen?
      I said OKAY like playing with girls during recess twice a day at school rather than the mean boys it might be fun to be a girl for a GIRL again today. I loved wearing Karen’s frilly WHITE dress over my shirt and my shorts and her shiny black shoes yesterday afternoon during our GIRL’S teaparty.

      Karen’s mom then said okay we will first have to call your mom to see if she is willing to pay today’s $10 class fee.

      2nd if your mom agrees we have see if Karen’s second ballet outfit will fit you, I think it will fit you okay as both of you are same height and weight. Since yesterday you wore both her old Sunday School dress and her SUNDAY school shoes. I agree with Karen you do look pretty in dress, I saw you both yesterday. I had a hard time telling who was who since both of you have equally long hair. You do both look like twin sisters.

      10 minutes later my mom is at Karen’s house front door with the money. She says to Karen’s mom how great I always wanted a girl, I would love to see what he would look like dressed as a girl.

      We are now in Karen’s house living room. Karen mom hands my mom The second ballet outfit, including a pair of girls panties and a little girls ballet bra, She says to my mom’s take Jamie to Karen’s bedroom to dress him I will take Karen to my bedroom to dress her. 15 minutes later I’m a cute girl wearing a pink fabolus soft and tight ballerina outfit including a very stiff ballet skirt (I learned that afternoon it was a called a Tutu) it made nice swish sounds while walking around. the entire outfit fit me nicely, tight,  I said mom I like it it’s so soft not like my scratchy boy jeans.
      Karen’s mom knocks on door. may Karen and I come in? I said yes I want to see Karen. Karen had her shoulder length hair in a ponytail with a pink ribbon bow. Karen says mommy he doesn’t have his hair in ponytail and pink ribbon. Opps says Karen’s mom now i know why i had two pink ribbons when I did your hair up. not good. Come here Jamie so I can do your hair up in a ponytail. 5 minutes later I have my own shoulder length hair (as my parents had never taken me to barber shop for a haircut) in a ponytail tied with a pink bow from top of my head. Then she said “Now we have to give you a female name” Karen’s mom said how about “Tammie”. my mom says PERFECT that’s the name I would have called a Girl baby.

      Karen’s mother says Jamie PLEASE remember IN class your name is Tammie, if you are asked 4 your name or called by teacher, you are Karen’s cousin. Karen giggles, saying Tammie come here  and hold my hand while we walk to moms car, to go to class. we can sit together on back seat playing pattycake. Your mom can come along also.

      Karen says mom has gone outside to start car for trip to the ballet school.
      So we walk to front door to leave, Karen’s mom as we were at top step with my mom behind use say stay there a minute I want to take a couple pictures of all of u for our photo album. Then she says since I have to lock front door maybe Tammies mom will take a quick picture also.  My mom says certainly Karen’s mom locks door and then stands behind us for photo.

      we made to ballet school with 5 minutes to spare, Boy was it fun I got to play with 30 girls at one time dressed up identically the hour long class.

      Karen says to me after class, Tammie did you have fun? H ow about you contine taking the school year of classes together with me then you can be a Girl all day Saturday every week. ?
      I said yes let’s see if my mom will sign Tammie up. we walk to our moms in hallway. my mom says Tammie did you enjoy your class. I said yes PLEASE sign me up for the entire series. She says I already did provisional depending upon how you liked it all I have to do is pay for the rest of the weekly classes for the school year but don’t tell your dad tonight.

      Come next Saturday morning after breaking and dad had gone outside Mom’s says Tammie,  Karen’s mom & I have gotten you your own Ballet class outfits from the ballet school. I’ve even gotten you a couple litte girls Frilly SUNDAY School outfits  so you can be a Girl every time you play with Karen at Karen’s house, Karen’s mother will help you change if you need help and do your hair up. okay? I said yeah I can Tammie whenever I want.

      Come Halloween our regular school is having a all day Costume Party. Karen and I had same teacher and sat next to each other, we grin at each other when teacher said Halloween day is a all day Costume party  everyone will come to school wearing your costume that day.  Come lunch time Karen whispered in my ear how about we wear our Ballet class outfits except wear our SUNDAY school shoes instead of the ballet slippers. yes I said exactly what I thought, giggled a little,I can be a little Girl all day for regular school. Come Halloween morning I put on my Ballet outfit after breakfast and dad had left 4 work. With a girls book bag and shiny purse I walk to Karen’s house. Her mom says Tammie I will do your hair up and how about I make up your face just like Karen’s Face. I said certainly.  We had a fabulous day at school. Come that evening we even went trick or treating wearing same outfit. When I got home after school. I asked mom could I wear my ballet class outfit for dinner ? So Karen and I can go trick or treating with her mom IMMEDIATELY after dinner. She say absolutely, then we have a reason to tell dad about you ballet school classes as Tammie.
      Dad was SHOCKED, but said you do look very cute as a girl. Mother may I suggest you redo Tammie’s makeup before she goes Trick and Treating with Karen, including some red lipstick. mom says certainly that would complete the look then we would have beautiful little girl tonight..

      We took ballet class together thru 4th grade. in 5th grade Karen took piano lessons Saturday afternoons having developed an interest to play piano music just like we Danced to in ballet class.  Come . At end of 2nd grade I was really enjoying being Tammie. All summer I was dressing myself every morning in 1 of  the several little Girl play outfits my mom had  got me, then one morning,  mom says Jamie, since you like dressing as a Girl every day  you need a Girls hair cut since ur hair is below your shoulders. she takes me to her beauty salon, come 1 hour later my hair shoulder length with two braded pigtails at each ear. I loved it as did Karen later that afternoon.  Come mid August about 3 weeks b4 school was resuming my mom says to me do u want me to Registrater you as Tammie or Jammie for 3td grade? I say Tammie I rather dress in soft girls dresses. 2 days my mom takes me to school Office dressed as Tammie to register me. Then the following SUNDAY at breakfast my mom says if you are doing to be Tammie for regular school you should be Tammie in SUNDAY school also. So I’ve gotten you a new Girls SUNDAY School outfit and new SUNDAY school shoes and a new purse.  Its 915am  and Church  service it’s at 11 AM,  please be dressed in ur new outfit b4 1015 when we to leave for church service so we have time to register Tammie for SUNDAY school. Got to SUNDAY school class room there is Karen visiting my church for SUNDAY school with me. She says Tammie how great your Tammie for both regular school and SUNDAY school.  After church that day we including Karen’s parents had SUNDAY Dinner at a nearby  restaurant.

      From then until start of 8th grade when I had to start talking a PE Class every day and having to shower after PE  I was always Tammie.

      ************

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

    • #383873
      Peggy Sue Williams
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      Tammie,

      OTOH  =  On The Other Hand

       

       

       

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    • #383770
      Araminta Purdy
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      Females earned the right to dress as they wished to. I saw it happen. I was alive in a time when females had to abide by strict regulations in public places, workplaces, schools, etc. or they were mercilessly castigated, often punitively. There was some temporary relief from that imposition of brutal, social direction during WWII which suffered a setback on the 1950s but it was the 1960s in which a direct and strong rebellion shattered the norms. That was what ‘bra-burning’ was all about. So far as I know, there was only one such demonstration against the forced wearing of punitive undergarments to meet some paternalistic standards of appearance but the concept was revelatory and widely acclaimed; at least by females.

      Males, on the other hand, have been more diffident about asserting their right to present whatever gender or even to wear whatever clothing they wish to. I guess courage is more of a feminine trait.

      Consider how often people refer to ‘male’ clothing or ‘female’ clothing. When they do so they reveal that they have been indoctrinated with a specific and erroneous mindset. Clothes are not a living species. They are not male or female. They do not propagate. They have a gender (masculine, neutral or feminine) as defined by the social values concerning such concepts. To say you wear ‘female’ clothing means you are not really seeing actuality and still labouring under delusions imposed by, perhaps by well-meaning people, but by people who are foisting false and harmful values upon you.

      Again, it is sites such as these that allow us to learn that athenasing is common, accessible to both sexes and is mornal, acceptable, pleasant, healthy and a whole bunch of good things. Males are beginning to assert their rights and we will get there thanks to the feminine courage of the females who showed us the way.

      I have heard that behind every good man stands a good woman. This is a bit unfair as it presupposes, in spite of the obvious facts, that females are not natural leaders. Maybe, inside every good male, lives a good woman.

      Araminta.

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      • #386620
        stephanie plumb
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        Love your reply….  I wholeheartedly agree that of course clothes don’t have a gender.   “Inside every good male, lives a good woman”.    This is something I have been thinking about and will do a post on sometime soon.  After all, we all have a X chromosome…..

        Stephanie P

        • #386791
          Araminta Purdy
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          Ah, thanks Stephanie. My views tend to diverge from those held by even the most well meaning which makes me a bit reluctant to fully express myself so your kind words do mean a lot. However, I do believe that clothing does have a gender, otherwise why bother, but they do not have a sex therefore should not be ‘assigned’ to either sex.

          Araminta.

    • #383758
      Jo Jett
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      I am not angry, I do wish that society allowed everyone to wear what they like with out belittling and persecution. As long as the next person is different from me … and that is how society works… people will try to make themselves better then the next, and if they can’t rise above with a good deed they will try to drive the other down and make them look bad to achieve this… sadly that is mankind…

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    • #383718
      Britney Summers
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      Perfect example of a lack of equality, double-standards, and female gender being more privileged.

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    • #383646
      Tammie Swenson
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      OTOH  ?

      What do you mean? I’ve never seen this b4?

    • #383617
      Seren
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      We’re just unlucky (and lucky….) to live in a tone when societal norms are at this point on the ‘swing of the pendulum’ Maybe in 20, 30, years it’ll be acceptable again, like at many points in the past for men to wear wigs, tights, makeup….

      What I find especially weird is that us dressing a certain way is often seen as a threat to other men’s masculinity…. 🤔  Are so many macho guys so insecure in their masculinity? (Yeah, I know, the answer is YES!)

      have a wonderful Monday beautiful girls

      Seren xx

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    • #383615
      Tammie Swenson
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      I agree with everyone. Its been initially very hard 4 me these last  4 years ever since my SOGGF insisted that I DRESS 24/7 FULLY FEMALE from early Oct 2015 thru her 2015 Office Halloween party. She did know I would really enjoy dressing feminine 24/7 something I hadn’t done since 8th grade.

      I’ve previously described in this forum my previous XDing since early childhood.

      I like wise many times DRESSED UP FULLY FEMALE in frilly SUNDAY school best for SUNDAY SCHOOL usually if Iwas going to SUNDAY school with Karen my next door neighbor girl that I took “Little Girl” ballet classes with her for 3 years.

      Last Friday I had an 11AM hairstyling / manicure appointment with my stylist of 4 years. Friday,  I decided to dress in a solid black long sleeved bodysuit over a midnight blue bra with 38DDD forms attached, a nice black spandex mid Calf length pencil skirt, suntan my black walking shoes. my fingernails FRENCH manicured with 1/4″ acrylic nail TIPS done while waiting 30 minutes for my hair dye to set b4 my styling and perm with a medum length  1920ish bob. Obviously very much feminine

      3pm I was grocery Shopping, shopped for about 1 hour, even got some very complementary comments re how nice I looked from several GG women in their 30s, but after I had swiped my credit card to pay,  the  20ish gal clerk said to me ” Sir if you come here dressed in feminine attire the police will be called, and arrest you for indecent attire.”  Boy was I steamed. Next thing I knew the security guard was escorting me and my groceries to my car. He said 2 me after we got 2 my car  “u F***ng trannies r not welcome in this store, if u come here again u will be arrested”

      I was steamed, especially as while shopping I saw several obviously GG (as they had a baby in their shopping cart’s childseat) these late 20ish women were wearing  skin tight leggings and long Hip length Tshirts and beach type flip flops. Hair Very short & unfeminine,  kinda like a man’s crewcut.

      Obviously this Store has a double standard for attire.

       

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    • #383596
      Peggy Sue Williams
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      American women won the right to cross dress in the 1970s, as part of the woman’s liberation movement.  In 2020, if anyone questioned a woman appearing anywhere in trousers, they would be shouted down as “bigots.”

      Wouldn’t it be nice for men to have the same freedom?  Well, we don’t, but we have made progress.  I had to be very careful in the 1960s where I went cross dressed but not so today.  Cowboy bars or anywhere there is heavy alcohol consumption are places to avoid, for us CDs.  Yet, today, I go most anywhere else cross dressed.  OTOH, a woman can go cross dressed anywhere, including the two aforementioned places.  Imagine telling a female police officer in trousers that she is a CD?

      Bitter?  Angry?  No, not me, I don’t have the time for negative emotions like that.  I am too busy thinking about what pretty frilly girly things I will be wearing tomorrow.

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    • #383595
      Marlene Roberts
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      “Beach wear”. Men gave gone backwards in beach wear. There was a time not too long ago when a speedo or a thong was considered appropriate for men to wear at the beach or pool. Now it is long, baggy bathing suits down to the knees. Meanwhile women in the briefest styles are still considered acceptable. Amazing to me is that even in the EU and Russia and Eastern Europe men wear baggy long shorts as swim wear while the ladies have minimal thongs and are topless; not all but many. We gave up because I think being in a brief suite was considered “gay”. We should have stood our ground.

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    • #383590
      Stevie Steiner
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      I remember as a child having to dress in the ” Sunday best”  – the boy in the nice suit and tie ….. and I HATED it.  I still remember looking at the girls in their pretty and comfortable looking dresses and thinking it’s not fair.  I wouldn’t go so far as angry, more like sad I was stuck in being put in these man clothes….

      And from day 1, I have loathed ties.

      Stevie

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    • #383587
      Marlene Roberts
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      CDs being accepted would be a huge frost step I think. the est will work itself out in time.

    • #383585
      Marlene Roberts
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      What a great idea! Hope it works out for you. a little too far for me to travel.

    • #383583
      Marlene Roberts
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      You hit the nail on the head! Men’s wear is boring, boring; not varied in style and color and materials. I was a “suite” for thirty years. Not now!

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    • #383582
      Marlene Roberts
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      Yes, “Angry” is too strong a word. “Wish it was otherwise and let’s try to change it” is how I feel. Easy to write, but hard to do. “Gays” did it though but they had to organize and suffer a lot.

    • #383578
      Lady Michelle
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      Men should be able to wear any female clothing, why not?

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    • #267918
      Tammie Swenson
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      ?  WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH MEN WEARING SKIRTS AND BLOUSES and carrying a “purse”

      ANSWER:     N O T H I N G 

      Men in Scotland have been doing it for centuries…..its just they call Men’s Skirts  KILTS and they call the PURSES a “SPORRAN” AND NO ONE blinks an eye

      see below from google

      the sporran (/ˈspɒrən/; Scottish Gaelic for “purse“), a traditional part of male Scottish Highland dress, is a pouch that performs the same function as pockets on the pocketless kilt. Made of leather or fur, the ornamentation of the sporran is chosen to complement the formality of dress worn with it.

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    • #267897
      Jin Crocker
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      What? You mean I am not allowed to wear anything I want?

      I have been switching and mixing what society considers ‘gender based’ fashion always.

      My only gripe is when I take off my top on hot days and someone whines about my breasts being exposed.

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    • #267865
      Bobbi
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      This is a shining example of society’s inability to mind it’s own f*cking business!

    • #267826
      Deb Cox
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      I don’t waste energy on things I cannot change, and anyone can wear whatever they want.

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    • #241848
      Anonymous
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      I wanted to choose the first one but I can’t say I’m angry about it. Angry is a very strong word. I’m more disappointed that it is the way it is and I do feel like it’s a double standard but life is chock full of double standards.

    • #241821
      Rose Hill
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      Not so much as angry but a double standard.  Women can dress in pretty much whatever they want and no one will give it a s second thought, but if a man dresses in anything that appears effeminate then he is looked at in a different way. Male clothing is boring !  Women are lucky to get all the choices of male or female clothes, jeans, sweats, skirts, dresses etc.

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    • #240570
      Roxy Smith
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      There is a lot spoken about how much women are disadvantaged in the workplace ie. equal pay etc.  But one advantage (cis women) have is no one says anything if they dress in what is seen as “mens clothes”.  Yet cis men aren’t allowed to dress in “women’s clothes”.

      Roxy641

    • #240543
      Patty Phose
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      I feel I can dress in what ever I want and do. I love wearing pantyhose with heels and short dresses. Then I just finish up my fem look with breasts, hair and makeup. When I go out, I’m nervous about it at times but other then worrying about what someone’s reaction to me might be, I see no reason why I shouldn’t dress the way I love.

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    • #237162
      Ellie Hope
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      I have no issue with ladies dressing in clothing intended for men, they tend to make any clothing look good in my view! But what is so disappointing to me is how limiting and totally boring men’s clothing is! When CD’s talk about “being back in drab”, that really resonates with me.

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    • #236968
      Ruby Smith
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      I’m with some of the other ladies, I’m happy that genetic women can wear whatever they want. Now jealous, that I am. At one point in human history, it was nothing for a genetic man to wear things that are now deemed inappropriate. I hopeful that one day, any person can wear whatever they want, whenever they want.

    • #236419
      Aoife
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      I’m sure it’s driven us all crazy. « Oh do you want us to buy you a dress!? » was such an obnoxious response to any question about girls it really made me hate adults. What if I do? Maybe I’m not gonna fight you about it but why is that such a forbidden option? It’s just clothes, no reason to make it feel like cootie-coated contraband! Everyone should at least know how it feels just in an objective manner.

    • #236353
      Brenda Maidenform
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      Anyone should be free to express themselves. We should be free to wear what we want, it is just clothes for gods sake!

    • #235869
      Anonymous
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      Hi girls, I’m happy that genetic girls wear whatever they want to. I’m jealous that they have such a range of clothes to pick from. I work with a lot of genetic girls and I wish I had their choice of clothes; sometimes a dress, sometimes a skirt and top, sometimes trousers. That’s why I like to underdress at work when I can, because on the outside I’m wearing my drab male suit but underneath I’m wearing the same pretty, maybe sexy, underwear that my colleagues are wearing. It makes me feel feminine. Liz.

    • #235761
      Jo Jo Sweet
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      I Agree that it is not a fair situation but i do not allow anger to spoil my day.

      I can dress at home as much as i want and have bought a rural place in France which i will be making a few changes and then offering a safe secluded place for people to have a holiday where they can dress as much as they want, with me as their host and my wife acting queen bee.

      If anyone would be interested please let me know and i can keep you informed of when it will be ready.

      XXX

    • #235345
      Rosiebeth
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      I agree with a lot of you girls.  I’m not angry. I just feel it’s unfair because everyone should be able to express themselves as they see fit.  Like some I’m a little jealous because women have so many different fashions that it seems endless in what they can wear and men, it’s shirt and pants.  Tides are changing and that’s something to look forward to.
      hugs &kisses

      Rosiebeth.

    • #235304
      Falecia McGuire
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      I think we have been deluding ourselves and missing some genuine opportunities.  Women wear men’s clothes as women.  I have been wearing women’s clothes as a man for a long time, with very limited discrimination.  I have not yet tried to pass as a women in public, but I might someday.  Meanwhile, I’m pretty happy wearing skinny jeans, high heeled booties or sandals, and tunics or blouses.  Sometimes I feel self conscious, but mostly I just get on with my business.  People ignore me or just seem-to accept me.  My wife is not comfortable with my feminine choices, so I tone it down when we’re together.  I’d like to take it up a notch and add stilettos and skirts, but for now I’m getting an adequate feminine fix.  I think it’s enough to kick up the endorphins!

      FAM

    • #235303
      Ashley
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      I wouldn’t so much say I’m angry about it. More like at least a little jealous sometimes. And disappointed in society for it.

      I did vote neutral, but after some thought I think I would have voted I am happy for GGs for it. I know they can look good in my clothes with a lot less effort than it tends to take me to look good in their clothes!

    • #235056
      Heather Jameson
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      I don’t think it’s fair but it’s one of those, that’s just the way it is. The world has come a long way but is still far from accepting  the LGBTQ  community. Heck our own community doesn’t even accept us, gay men don’t like us because we look like women and they aren’t into women. The lesbian community tolerates us but we’re not lesbians we are men dressed like women. So we’ve got a long way to go, it won’t be in my life time but things are definitely better than when I was young.

      • #235250
        Cherrie Llewellyn
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        Not angry about it, just frustrated.  I do have a lot of gay friends that are drag queens and and I also have lesbian friends that are on our side of life. They know we are who we are and love our community, cuz we are our selves.

         

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    • #234934
      Rozalyne Richards
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      Hi girls it doesn’t bother me at all that women can wear what they want and no one bat’s an eyelid, but if a man wear’s a skirt or a dress they get called all sorts of names, but a scotsman can wear a kilk which is a form of skirt and no one minds at all, it’s just a bit funny that don’t you think, maybe that’s the answer we should all take to wearing a kilk when we are out and we won’t be called any bad names, it’s just a thought, hugs Rozalyne x

      • #236884
        Anonymous
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        I once went to a Ceilidh, and wore a kilt, with the correct shirt, sporran and socks.

        It was an amazing experience, but I had to be a bit careful with some of the more energetic dances, as I followed the Scottish model to the letter…

        Love Laura

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    • #234933
      Melissa Davis
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      As a strongly heterosexual man I see a lot of women who look terrific in menswear when worn with style. Why begrudge women a wide range of choices? Hetero crossdressers have a narrower range. We strive to appear feminine; it’s natural for us to choose clothes associated with femininity. I do wear leggings and pants sometimes, but I never feel and look more feminine than when I wear a skirt that flatters my figure. Though I’m overdressed for some of the places I go, I prefer that to dressing down just to blend with the crowd.

    • #234863
      Fiona-Ann Moss
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      Thanks Girls! there is nothing like a good debate eh? but seriously, i do agree with the many points mentioned, especially the fact that if the majority of men started wearing pencil skirts, or any other skirt for that matter, then eventually it would become the norm and not a problem anymore to some. I feel that there are many issues within this problem, up at the top is the ‘macho’ image so many men desire, me wearing a skirt? god forbid!! and all that stuff. Our real break would be if a top celebrity started wearing skirts and i mean a real persuasive figure in society. Most humans are followers, who knows? it might catch on! if i so remember, and i have mentioned it before (i think), David Beckham, the footballer in the uk, tried to start a skirt trend off, but failed miserably. Maybe perserverence may have paid off here but we shall never know.

      Society is slowly moving forward but still a lot of work needs to be done. Just think though, if suddenly men dressing in womens clothes became the norm and fully accepted by the dinosaurs of society, that is one issue out of the way, but! there is still the issue of men taking on the feelings of being a woman and this being accepted by society, unfairly, this i feel, is going to be a hard nut to crack. Simply put, men dressing in womens clothes will not stop the word crossdresser from being used just because theoretically, one issue such as wearing ladies clothes has been accepted, as we all know, this is just the tip of the iceberg!!! thanks for your very thought provoking replies so far!! lets keep the debate going!!!

      Love and kisses, Fiona-Ann xxx

    • #234842
      IsabelB
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      This is more complicated than the answers allow.

      I am certainly happy for genetic girls to wear ‘men’s’ clothing – in as much as I am happy for anyone to wear anything they would like to and feel comfortable in at any time of their choosing.

      Equally, I think that social opinion generally has issues with men in ‘women’s’ clothing, something which I do find very frustrating.  But then I have issues with anyone dictating what others can do (outside of things causing physical or psychological harm).  Am I angry about it? – yes, maybe a little at times.

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    • #234745
      Samantha Belle
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      I’m not angry. Why should I be angry at gg women who can wear and identify as they wish. Interesting how Crossdressers meaning FtM can cut their hair short and wear jeans and flannel shirts and it draws very little attention. But a man doing the same thing in woman’s clothes is a viewed as a freak or other nasty words. Why is this? Because the media and society has taught or brainwashed the public as to what it means to be a man or a woman. Cut and dry. Blue is for boys, pink is for girls and never the 2 shall be mixed or switched.

      Yes the coming of gender roles as fluid and with more gender descriptions than I can keep track of is good, but society as a whole is still very rigid in it’s beliefs.

      My solution for myself to dress more androgynous when out in public, but not heavily fem. I work at a retail store that attracts unconventional staff and customers. I’ve worn tights and pantyhose under shorts and brighter fem colors of clothing and have received many compliments of these things, but if i was to come into work in a skirt or dress, the line would be crossed.

      Those who can cross the line and truly be yourselves, I applaud you and look forward the day I can do that. The cracks in the wall are happening, but ever so slowly.

      Samantha

    • #234685
      Anne-Marie
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      I don’t really give a nats fig about this.

      The primary reason I even notice women is because I’m hard wired to perv at them – tits, ass and pins.

      As to the between the lines aspect of the question. Tell an Iranian or Saudi woman who chooses / is forced into a burqa, a niqab, hijab, jilbab, chador or some similar garments that they can wear what they want.

      Also, the only thing stopping men wearing feminine style clothes (or should that be clothes intended as woman’s wear) in much of contemporary western society is societal attitudes and norms.

      I for myself reluctantly tend to conform with these norms in public (emphasis on tend to as I don’t always). I believe that this is also the case with many (so called) cross dressing men. I do however believe that we are the victims of our own behaviour. I have very little doubt that if en-mass we began to frequently and openly wear (for example) pencil skirts, that initially we would meet some opposition. As the populous became adjusted to men wearing pencil skirts – as they would with enough exposure –  it would become much less of an issue and eventually a non issue.

      I firmly believe that a major thing that also limits the acceptance amongst the populous of ‘men in a dress’ or men wearing skirts is that we try to pass or fit in as women. When women adopted male clothing, they didn’t really do that. It has to be acknowledged that a some level, men trying to fit in with the identification of woman is a scary thing. Men particularly find this threatening.

      Same goes with most other items of ‘femme’ clothing. If some manufacturer made dresses that conformed to the male anatomy and (by magic) lots of men began to wear them regularly then, after the passage of time, providing enough men adopted wearing these dresses, it would become a non issue.

      In both instances, once the style of clothing became accepted then it would only take aittle well planned push for a wider range of similar clothing to be accepted e.g. pencil skirt to a-line skirt or the dress to a wider range of dresses.

      I just wonder, if it did become acceptable for men to wear skirts, dresses, blouses etc, then would we cross-dressers still have the same zeal to wear these clothes that we currently do? Would the adoption of (what is currently refered to) woman’s wear into mens or gender neutral/unisex wear detract from the atraction i.e. is it the female identity that draws us towards dressing ‘en femme’.

      Interesting then how transsexuals are slowly becoming more accepted in society. Even a short while ago transsexualism was a mental illness whilst homosexuality was illegal – how things have / are changing.

      Perhaps something to ponder?

      Take care girls.

      Anne-Marie.

       

      • This reply was modified 1 year ago by Anne-Marie.
      • #234698
        Anne-Marie
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        I was also going to add to the above that I firmly believe that a major thing that also limits the acceptance amongst the populous of ‘men in a dress’ or men wearing skirts is that we try to pass or fit in as women. When women adopted male clothing, they didn’t really do that. It has to be acknowledged that a some level, men trying to fit in with the identification of woman is a scary thing. Men particularly find this threatening.

        The site stopped me editing – as it seems to do from time to time – probably my phone doing this though.

        Take care girls.

        Anne-Marie.

        • #234929
          Anonymous
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          Some try to pass.

          I don’t.

          I know what and who I am – and I’ve totally come to terms with it.

          When I wear anything feminine, I like to create a shape and image that suits the nice clothes, so the wig, heels, jewellery, etc. are to compliment the image, yes, and blur the fact that I’m a man as much as possible, in order to not be stared at.

          Because people don’t totally get it unless you make a big effort.

          A half dressed, poorly made up cross dresser doesn’t look good.

          I don’t mean that in a horrible way – you can tell from people’s expressions.

          Hmm… so it’s a bit like passing, I guess… but from a different angle. I’ll probably never pass as a woman, but as a nicely presented criss dresser, who knows?

          Maybe one day!

          Love Laura

          • #234996
            Lori Stark
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            Dear Laura, I think your approach is the correct one. I’m trying to come to grips with knowing I’ll be read pretty much by everybody. I’m a shy girl, and I have to find a way to face that fact.

            Lori 💋

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          • #235319
            Anonymous
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            Hi Lori

            I wouldn’t say correct, it just works for me – I’m really glad it resonates with you!

            I’m not an outgoing person either, but, with experience of several outings, I have found I’m much more confident and outgoing as Laura.

            It may not work for everyone – like not everyone learns to swim simply by jumping in.

            It’s a great way to find your limits quickly though!

            Love Laura

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    • #234622
      Caty Ryan
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      Hi girls

      It does not bother me what anyone of any gender (over the entire current spectrum of that word) wears… It’s their business and theirs alone.

      That said a male CD  who chooses to emulate Ru Paul in their local supermarket is a moral to get some attention and if they are comfy with that, so be it.

      What gripes me no end is the double standards at work in this debate. As I have previously posted under “dressing double standards”, I once left a Caty photo out where my beloved found it and things were quite “frosty”around here for a good 24hrs.

      That would be at the time she had her sewing machine out altering a mans shirt for her daughter’s work uniform….

      That’s OK, but me in a dress, wig and heels is not…I hate all the lies and subterfuge I have to go to to have Caty time, would much rather be upfront. But as in the article I have coming up on CDH, when I attended a CD conference three years ago and “owned up” She did not answer a single text message the whole four days I was away.

      “Damned if I do, Damned I dont”.

      Just like when I did the post above

      GGGGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR.

      Caty

       

       

       

    • #234540
      Alice Underwire
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      It’s unfair that GG’s can wear traditional men’s apparel.  I’m not mad but sad because I love to wear skirts and dresses.  Clothing manufactures are competitive and you’d think would welcome our purchases.  After all they are competing with the on line sites.

      Thanks Fiona for posting a great question.

      Alice

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    • #234497
      Candy Can
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      I’m not angry. Sad maybe, but not angry.
      It IS unfair, but life is unfair.

      As has been said, go back to the ’50s, and women were expected to wear skirts and dresses, and not miniskirts and dresses either. A subset of women changed that expectation for ALL western women, to the point where they wore jeans, pantsuits, shorts, and minis (remember ‘hot pants’?).

      I think change will only happen for males in the same way. ie If enough men wear something different to the accepted norm.
      I don’t see that happening, yet, in big enough numbers to make the change.
      Maybe it happens with beach wear? Holiday wear? At home wear?

      • #235191
        Bettylou Cox
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        “At home wear” would be a fabulous place to start the ball rolling. Hey! Much of my at-home time is now spent wearing either my nightgown or a denim skirt, and stepping out in the skirt isn’t too much of a leap.

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      • #235124
        Leonara
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        The trend in men’s
        fashions are the tapered or skinny
        pants and the shorter suit or blazer
        jackets… also a black loafer can be
        close to “girly flats”..just a thought
        Leonara

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        • #235239
          Alice Underwire
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          Hi Leonara,

          The fashion industry has marketed skirts towards men (Not kilts).  In the warmer months I’ve seen younger men (college age and mid 20’s) wearing their skirts in urban city streets.

          Alice

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    • #234475
      Anonymous
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      I think there is a shrinking but very opinionated and vocal section of society which still holds this outdated view.

      Sadly, that minority seems to include wives.

      I’ve seen so many examples, including my own wife, of women who really don’t mind at all, unless it’s their husband. Then he suddenly becomes “Not the man I married”.

      There’s just no sense in this attitude, yet it’s quite common – and, I believe, damaging not just to the marriage, but to the husband who, despite coming out, is forced to make the choice between leaving the marriage or staying closeted and unhappy.

      Most loving, decent husbands choose the marriage and pain, rather than the greater pain of separation – yet that choice is uneccessary, according to the laws of the UK and many other countries.

      The notion of who can wear what is a non-issue.

      Clothes are for keeping warm and “decent”.

      They are also a means of self expression.

      No-one should be forced to dress a certain way.

      If you join the army, you accept that you must wear the uniform – that’s a given for so many good reasons, such as preservation!

      There’s nothing in any marriage contract I know of that stipulates how anyone in the partnership should dress – it’s not a deal breaker or maker.

      No husband divorces his wife because she stops wearing pretty dresses.

      If you went out in a dress, heels and wig, most people would turn a blind eye.

      That’s been my experience time and time again.

      You can dress exactly how you like in 2019.

      Love Laura

       

    • #234467
      Emily Alt
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      I’m glad GG’s can freely wear whatever they want, at least in Western countries.  I also think it’s unfair that men are held to a rigid standard that doesn’t afford nearly the amount of freedom genetic women have.  I want that to change, and I think the only way it will happen is if we demand it through our actions.  That means more of us need to come out of the shadows, myself included.

      I live in California and I’m well aware I have the law on my side.  I could wear a dress to work and would likely prevail in a legal proceeding if my employer chose to take action.  But as a practical matter, wearing a dress to work would make it nearly impossible to work effectively at my job.  I would lose the trust and respect of most of my co-workers.  It would be a miserable existence and I’m not going there.  Workplaces like mine are the still the majority, even in California.  Regardless of what the US Supreme Court (or any court) does, they can’t change people’s attitudes.  Yes, things are better than 10 or 20 years ago, but we still have a long road ahead of us.

      While I’m unwilling to present en femme at work, I do plan to get out in public more often.  That’s something most of us can and should do.  It’s good for us as individuals and it’s the best way to gain more acceptance from society.

      This has been a thought provoking poll.  Lots of good points and differing perspectives.  Thanks Fee for posting.

      • #234892
        Bettylou Cox
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        Emily,
        You have presented an interesting conundrum: In order to be accepted, we need to be seen in fairly large numbers…but that necessarily also means being clocked, which most of us strive to avoid. And we also need to be seen in a positive light, as “good girls” rather than just odd people.

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        • #235752
          Emily Alt
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          Hi Bettylou – yes the fear of being exposed is a big concern for most of us. For some, their fear is totally warranted. But for a many, myself included, I believe fear has become a crutch, and is holding us back.

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    • #234412
      Bettylou Cox
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      I think it’s unfair that women can wear anything, including “man-ish” suits with impunity, while we get called out for anything remotely femme, including nail polish…..but nobody ever said that life was fair. It doesn’t “bug” me, and I find that I care less each day what others think about how I dress.

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    • #234383
      Dame Veronica Graunwolf
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      My Sisters………. I have on and found for years…….cat calls and “table legs or pipe stems (the pipes I nice and the bagpipes….well….never gook thee fen for them). It is the Sinclair the Clan Tartan is my fav. Kilt ! And we go combat in the Kilt………everything goes…..wee me dainties under the dresses! The not had the Honor to accompanies with a 2 lasses wearing tuxedo on for a swarazee with the evening…..fetching young lads.

      Dame Veronica

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      • #234387
        Fiona-Ann Moss
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        Ok!! Veronica, yes men do wear kilts!! true you dont see many, usually at events or the more seasoned scotsmen, but nonetheless they have been worn for centuries? i think also, without wanting to sound vulgar, that some Genetic females find men in kilts kinda ermmm well, sexy!! 🙂

        Fee xxx

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    • #234372
      Dame Veronica Graunwolf
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      The girls wearing tuxedos at the Oscars or business stroll……..they are very fetching! Yes…..”our” dressing gets a flood of cat calls. It is our species can be quite boorish!

      Dame Veronica

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    • #234370
      Brenda Parkhurst
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      I’m happy for them. How can I not be when I want everyone to be happy for me and all of the other CD’s when we present?  Our clothing should express our feelings and our style without the constraint of other’s preconceived notion of what is appropriate for whatever role they think they can assign us.  Each of us should be able to make our own choices and I certainly encourage GGs, CDs, TGs, and all the other Gs to be comfortable and real with how they dress.

      What I do find interesting is how people have little or no reaction to a GG who dresses very butch.  Those who present that way can pass virtually unnoticed in any setting.  Even those that kind of go over the top to an almost costume-y level can function without comment or constraints.  It society and people’s expectations of a man’s role that say that expressions of femininity in presentation are unacceptable and somehow wrong.  It’s then easy for us who can’t or don’t feel permitted to be authentic to resent those who can and do. But that’s exactly the wrong way around.  The more we support and encourage GGs to be themselves in their expression, the more we can demand an expect the same in return.

      If we love ourselves in all of our rainbow of colors, then we must extend that to everyone, not just those in our part of the spectrum.

       

       

    • #234369
      Stephanie Turner
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      its unfair but its been this way for so long that it will take a long time to change peoples attitudes ,i was for a long time hiding myself but now things are changing for the better  i rember thinking i was in the wrong being who i am and this goes back some years its getting better for instance there are now sites like this which lets us know we are not alone and that there are people who understand and dont judge us the way it was before

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    • #234327
      Anonymous
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      Since I don’t know about many other cultures, will keep it in the frame of our Western Civilizations.

      A) Women won the right to wear whatever they wanted. For years women wearing pants were seen as scandalous and all were called the worst names. But they prevailed. And then of course with the industrial revolution moving into the war efforts, women had to move on to wearing comfortable/factory safe clothes.

      B) Men can wear any clothes they want… if they are willing to pay the price. Have a critical mass of men wearing dresses, and then it will become “normal”.

      C) Women are usually not wearing “Men’s clothes”. They are wearing jeans and slacks and pantsuits made for women. And other than some limited cases, they are not trying to deny their femininity by wearing “masculine” styled clothes.

      D) And then there is the issue of “intent”. Women are not binding their chests or getting silicone abdominal inserts to give them a more masculine body. It is a totally different scenario. I have never seen a woman trying to pass herself as a man, other than in movies. Even “butch” lesbians are not going to the extreme of pretending to be men.

      So, in a nutshell… if you are a man who wants to wear women’s clothes, who is stopping you? It is not forbidden in most of our countries. And in the US you can perfectly go to work wearing whatever you want in some states. (The sister republic of California comes to mind). Are you willing to do so? and even more important… is that what you really want? Because it is NOT what I want.

      Have a fashion company start making a line of men’s dresses… similar in design and fabrics to their women’s dresses line. I will NEVER buy anything from them. Same with a line of “men’s high heels”. They can keep them all. I don’t want to wear women’s clothes and still present like a man. I don’t want to wear dresses and heels for men. Do you? Really?

      If you want to wear women’s jeans and women’s blouses (like many already do, not to talk about those who “underdress” daily) what is stopping you? Why the whining? Earn the right if that is what you really want. And just wear them, if that is what you want. Sorry if it sounds harsh… but no need to  complain about what women can or not wear. It is up to you about what you can wear…

      Gaby ♥

      • #234342
        Fiona-Ann Moss
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        Hi Gaby, i am well aware that any of us can wear what we want but the issue is that many of us would feel uncomfortable doing it outside, why? because society sees it that way, not because of what we want to wear but because of what society tells us to wear. I know this is wrong and it sucks. Turn the tables however and society does not bat an eyelid!! geez, even if a Genetic girl went outside wearing just a bin bag she would be deemed as ‘sexy’. No, times need to change, we push for equal rights, but where’s our rights? why do a lot of peoples attitudes towards us stink?

        I think it all boils down to evolution, Genetic women have always been looked upon as the ‘weaker sex’ whereas men are viewed as the ‘dominant or stronger sex’ , here in societys eyes, we should act accordingly. This is all well and good, summed up in a peanutshell, but as we are all aware, there are many other issues at stake here such as gender issues for example, but hey! because society doesnt see it from our perspective, its swept under the carpet like so many other issues are.

        For the record, i have absolutely nothing against Genetic girls (i am married to one), what annoys me is the principle of it and the unfairness of it

        Fee xxx

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        • #234366
          Anonymous
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          Hi Fee! First, let me start by saying that in my original reply I was using “You” as in a plural, everybody else “You”, not as in “you, Fiona”. 🙂

          You are right that at least in our societies being a man is seen as a better thing than being a woman. So, it is easy to understand why a woman would be wanting to masculine (to improve herself) but a man wanting to be feminine is preposterous as of why would anybody want to be “less -something'” of who they are.

          But again, in general, women wearing men’s styled clothes or even clothes belonging to their boyfriend/husband/dad are not really an issue because they are not seen as going against their gender. Which is the case if you were out wearing your girlfriend’s/wife’s/daughter’s clothes. And they would be right. Or can you all tell me that you believe that a daughter wearing her dad’s sweater is doing it to feel masculine/like a guy? While if you were wearing your daughter’s sweater, in particular identifying yourself as a CD/TG person, would you be truthful if you said that you are not wearing it to “feel feminine”.

          Motivation is the biggest difference. IMHO.

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          • #234371
            Fiona-Ann Moss
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            *sighs* ok, i’ll hold my hands up there Gaby. I have no argument there and being the honest person i am, i admit i only wear womens clothes to feel my Feminine normal self. I suppose many other Genetic girls just throw on a sweater because its cold or its the first thing to hand. Looking at it from the sense of us feeling feminine, rather than just wearing a dress as an ordinary man (no fem feelings attached) does put it into perspective. I suppose you could look at this poll as more of a gripe than a useful poll, but sometimes its great to hear other members views on this, as for you Gaby, you have expertly illustrated a point that i did not consider. I shall now go and stand in the naughty corner until i’m told i can come out!!

            Hugs, Fee xxx

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          • #234382
            Lori Stark
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            Registered On: August 31, 2018
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            The Supreme Court of the United States is, at this very moment, considering whether a person can be fired from their job for wearing clothes of the “wrong” gender. The case is actually quite a bit more complicated than that, but I will note that the only reason it is under consideration at all is because somebody was so offended by the very idea that they filed a law suit, which has now worked its way all the way to the highest court in the country. The Court has recently been packed with religious conservatives who are likely to strike down long-established workplace protections for trans people. Those who fear or hate gender non-conformity are seeking official approval for their prejudices, and there is a good chance the Court will grant it. The case applies to job discrimination toward trans people, but the way this works is that –depending on how the Court rules — official prejudice may well trickle down to all of us.

            I love my sisters here, and I want us all to feel free to wear clothes of our own choosing. But when the topic of “closeted or out” comes up, as it often does here at CDH, it is situations like this that can help to explain why many of us (OK, I’m talking about myself) remain in the shadows. There is much bigotry in the land. Some of the bigots think their position is ordained by God and are willing to go so far as to try to get the law on their side.

            I don’t want to run into any of them while dressed “wrong.”

          • #234470
            Sa•man•tha
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            Hello Lori… I don’t get that the justices themselves really “get it” lol but that’s normal isn’t it?

            Still, I feel hopeful because the supreme court has a tendency to defer to precedent.  There’s a long & established precedent for workplace protections, gender equality protections, and local & state laws prohibiting the wearing of clothes of the “wrong gender” being struck down by the courts.  So I’m hopeful it’ll go our way.  Of course society and law are two different stories but at the least we’ll see what needs to be done next.

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          • #234494
            Lori Stark
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            Hope you’re right, Sammy, but the two new justices (appointed by the current president) have already voted to overturn long-standing precedent on two cases (unrelated to the current matter), so apparently they said some bullshit during their confirmation hearings. Anyway, the Court won’t rule on these cases for a couple of months so if you happen to have a narrow-minded employer you can relax for at least that long. 🙃

            PS: I voted for “I am happy for Genetic girls to wear ‘mens’ clothes.” And I am.

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          • #234421
            Anonymous
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            You may find under the present leadership both in the states and here in the UK that tolerance is in short supply.

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          • #234394
            Fiona-Ann Moss
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            It is certainly food for thought Lori. but why on earth listen to just one person? you will never ever get a complete agreement with anything, you will always get a few troublemakers making it their business to disrupt anything in life and not just crossdressing or transgender issues. People like this are usually ‘haters’ they hate change, they hate race, colour, homosexuals or anyone not complying to societies stupid rules. Really, this person should be facing charges against hate crime. Issues like this are things we really do not need, unless the outcome is in our favour, i hope some good comes of it and that common sense reigns supreme 🙂

            Fiona-Ann xxx

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          • #234424
            Lori Stark
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            Terrific attitude, Fiona, but you may have missed my point. In the U.S., an individual can’t just knock on the door at the Supreme Court and present their case. This case (it’s actually three cases being heard at the same time) has taken years to get there, at a cost of who knows how many hundreds of thousands of dollars, probably provided by one or more large conservative organizations. It stems from a personal or — more likely — a religious aversion to LGBTQ people, presumably including men who dress in women’s clothes, and the intent of the suit is to make it legal to discriminate against those who live and identify as non-binary. If you are a man in a dress, in other words, the Court is deciding if you have any civil rights in the United States.

            So to answer your original poll question, I can easily put aside my feelings about all the women who “get away” with wearing men’s clothing. Actually, I kind of like it, and apparently so does the religious right in this country. But if you are a man who chooses to dress cross-gender, watch out! As I said in my first comment, depending on how the Court decides, we may be entering a new era of anti-LGBTQ discrimination, supported by the government.

            There seems to be a rule prohibiting posting links on CDH, so if you’re interested in this topic, just search online for “Supreme Court Transgender Discrimination.” Then you might get as fired up as I am.

            Luv ya!
            Lori Stark 💋

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          • #234375
            Anonymous
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            Fee, awww c’mon sister! We know where we are coming from and how it can be frustrating at times.

            So, not fighting you, and sorry if I may have sounded unsympathetic.

            So, please write me in your list of prospective customers for when you open your beauty parlor ok? Want the works!! 🙂

            *hugs*

            Gaby

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          • #234380
            Fiona-Ann Moss
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            Gaby, i could never ever get mad with you!! we both joined here together on the same day!! how uncanny is that!! we have been friends ever since 🙂 . I love you as a sister and a true friend 🙂 . Lol anyone that knows me well enough on here, knows i am feisty and darned hard work and also ermmm kinda opinionated at times. Young mind, think i know it all and i dont!! sometimes needs someone wiser to get me back on the path 🙂

            Hugs, Fee xxx

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          • #235362
            Davida Mae
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            Heather; I like and agree with your comments. Things are definitely much different then when I was a kid and like you I doubt that the acceptance of me wearing Mary Jane heels with a pleated skirt …. “not in my life time”

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