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So!
I was looking at pictures of ladies on another (Tasteful. Honest!) site, and I realized that there was an aesthetic that I had been seeking to grok for several years. I have tried out ‘male femininity’. Where you look at a person and think that they are very likely male but it doesn’t matter because she is feminine and attractive and a pleasant lady.
This one is middle-aged, a newbie in the intern community, I think, heavy features but even and pleasant, athletic figure (lucky girl) with slim, but defined muscularity, probably tall, broadish shoulders and long but slightly lanky hair. She wore a cotton LBD with a 5-buckle heel. A bit Goth but not necessarily so. No cosmetics and a bit might have been transformative. A modest but effective curvature in the bosom.
It worked, though. I was struck by her posture and expression in various shots of her, apparently, first photos. These suggested several things.
That she was on the verge (cross-dress re-manifested after a break-up, depression and the advent of Amazon) of a Great Big Journey and that I envied her so much was one take-away.
If she was still depressed she managed to hide it under a modest smile of inexpressible joy.
As far as I could see she was a delightful and attractive lady perhaps because she didn’t so much hide the masculinity of her anatomy as to more productively adorn it in a manner that let her femininity radiate.
This does not answer many questions. It is apparent that the term ‘male femininity’ is highly variable. I feel I might have identified an experience many of us share.
So, is ‘male femininity’ a thing?
Araminta.
Araminta,
Yes, I absolutely believe it’s a thing. It’s the root of this spectrum we are often talking about.
How many of us, transitioning or not, have always felt that we were more than just the male we were raised? That there’s always been this part of us that was the other gender?
How often did others see it in us growing up? Call us a girl? Call us gay?
We’re not gay, we love women (Cis-women), but we can’t escape wanting to be like them. So much so that we express ourselves with pretty things, or just love to adorn ourselves with them in private.
That’s our male femininity showing through.
Much love,
Raquel
Basically males are, in some enlightened societies, allowed to express the more feminine aspects of their being without being severely punished. There are indications that some societies (First Nations) instituted these acceptances to excellent effect making feminine males an asset to their culture.
Something you touch on is that the concept of gendered behaviours is not particularly new but only recently examined dispassionately. I read Shakespeare and some of the social concepts of his time reflects some distinct and accepted patterns comparable to similar ideas in antiquity (Greek, Japanese, etc.) Particularly the idea that males, between puberty and full, physiological develop (grow beards) go through a ‘female’ phase. They dress prettily and are acceptable targets for male sexuality, etc. “When first I came to wive, by swaggering I could never thrive.” This was followed by “man’s estate”.
So, the concept of ‘male femininity’ may not be new, but not really clarified. My question, at the moment, is whether the term is valid as an identifiable aspect of humanity.
Araminta.
By the way, a male who in pretty much invariable feminine and sexual attracted to masculinity is not, to me, gay as such. She’s a woman, regardless of her sex, and her Sexual Orientation is ‘normal’ in the context of the relative genders. I reserve ‘gay’ for an invariable masculine male attracted fairly exclusively to masculine males. An invariably masculine male attracted to invariably feminine males (or females) are actually ‘heterosexual’ (by definition) as they cannot necessarily determine another person’s sex, by casual (ore even, sometimes, by close) examination but gender is generally pretty obvious.
A predilection to being attracted to feminine males may be more cultural or developed through experiences rather than an indication of an attraction to males. It is the ‘feminine’ that is most significant. The ‘male’ may be just a bonus.
Araminta.
It has always existed Araminta. Boys used to be dressed as girls in the Victorian era and there are probably examples going further back but I would say that is societal ways at a given time. In my day as a child if you were a soft boy in that you didn’t conform to the Alpha male you would be called a sissy or would be classed as a delicate child. This does not mean it should be classed as male femininity in the context we see it.
Male femininity is now a ‘Thing’. It is a fashion where males now have beauty treatments that are associated with females. Males are more involved with child care and stay at home dads are not uncommon. Men can express there emotions now, gone is the old saying,’Men don’t cry’. Fashion has also had an effect. Men never wore flowery shirts and it is said that only a real man can wear pink. And think that pink was a girl color and, for the gay community – i.e. The pink pound. Male femininity is where the alpha male boundaries are being softened to have attributes that were considered female. It doesn’t make you any less a masculine male, it’s being redefined in this modern world.
Wearing womens clothing is another aspect and often lumped in with expressing your feminine side,which I agree could be so or given as a reason for dressing, but as we know, it goes much deeper than that.
For me??? the ability to switch(when I feasibly can) from male me to Caty and enjoy every minute of what it takes for me to feel feminine.
Another aspect which I really treasure, has been what I feel is the very easy and lovely way I can relate to females and they “return the favour”.
Some of my closest friends over my 70 plus years on this planet have been females and we have mutually shared parts of our lives that hardly anyone else knew about
EG I am one of two brothers and one special lady in my life has only sisters. We have been as close as any “real brother/sister” for over 30 years.
EG Early I told her about Caty and she hardly blinked an eye..But back thenm she was living ina very progressive part of Toronto Canada and had “seen it all”
Caty.
This is rather interesting. For the most part, it’s part of the spectrum that I have begun embracing, but still very distinct depending on which version of me I am presenting at the given time. As my male self (part of this may be ethnicity), I’ve always been viewed a little feminine… though clearly a man. Though athletic, especially now that I’ve intentionally lost my Bruce Lee definition I’ve had since highschool, people joke that I have a girlish figure and can go either way in terms of body. From body frame alone, I’m percieved as either a slim man or an athletic woman.
Ever since I’ve explored the feminine side of me (presenting as a woman with makeup, jewelry, clothes), I’ve interestingly become much more comfortable walking around in my male form, presenting as male, but letting my hair down, grooming my brows, putting on clear mascara and clear lip gloss. And I rock it like a confident male, albeit “male femininity”. In male form, I get referred to (at first glance when I walk in a store or what not) as either ma’am or sir. I’d say it’s about 50/50 consistently, except 1 or 2 days every 2 weeks where my mustache shadow is at a growth stage where all the dark hairs are sitting right below the surface causing a distinct outline of a male mustache. On these two days, I literally get called sir 100% of the time. These 2 days I also refuse to present as woman, as the texture and color of my mustache shadow is impossible to fully make disappear in every angle and lighting situation I find myself in.
Anyhow, that’s my two cents.
You bring up two, crucial points, Carmen. Gender is very much about perception. That entails more than costuming and accessories but also behaviour. It also is defined by popular conventions and, unfortunately, prejudices. When a person sees another person and cannot determine their sex by perceiving their gender they become annoyed as they feel uncomfortable as they do not know how to react appropriately.
We are groomed to be uncomfortable presenting as ‘the other’ gender because we were taught it is abnormal, even wrong. Initially, a male being open and ‘out’ about their femininity will feel uncomfortable not because it is wrong but as a sort of ‘stage fright’. How will the audience react? When the worst does not happen it becomes not only more comfortable but one discovers an aspect of one’s self previously suppressed.
The second point is human morphology. Males have a wide range of body types and I have seen instances of males with strikingly feminine, physiological features; usually in their faces. A similar observation can be made of female body types. I suspect that these overlap with a relatively small portion of the male population being sort of super-masculine (and a very few females such as Buck Angel) with a similar portion of females being in the super-feminine range but more males able to present as such as well.
I feel these are significant and speak to what I am groping for in understanding male femininity.
Araminta.
For a while, I attended meetings of a CD group where most of the group members wore a wig and a dress and did nothing else to improve their female presentation. I would say this was a “male femininity” group.
Group discussions centered around manly topics, as did group activities. There was virtually no opportunity in the group to learn, let alone improve one’s feminine art skills. New comers were encouraged to participate in the group’s manly activities, which is why new comers never returned after one meeting. No support was offered at all for spouses or GFs.
Myself and another girl’s attempts to initiate female-type activities in the group was met with stiff resistance. Subsequently, we both bid farewell to this group of male femininity CDs.
Hi Araminta! Could we say that most think of “male femininity” as being effeminate? Call it what you will, but this is something I have suffered from since a young age. The number of times growing up thinking to myself “as a male I am not supposed to behave or think like this”…..
However, i felt the same way about myself and my gender identity regardless of whether I was “dressing” or not. Male Femininity will show through regardless of what one is wearing. I like this term.
Stevie
Hi, Stevie.
Sorry about the delayed response but I was touched by the notion that being male and effeminate are not necessarily contradictory nor pathological. I cannot see that your suffering was the result of anything on your part but on the part of a social environment that saw rational behaviour as anything but healthy. Your suffering was not your fault!
I see no reason to question your ‘maleness’ nor that being male is that much of an issue. I suspect that you have a natural facility to be a lovely lady and that your experiences as a male are just as equally conducive to that manifestation as being female. Well, maybe a trifle more of a challenge but not necessarily so.
Araminta.
I wouldn’t use the term “male femininity”. I think that “male femininty” is an oxymoron. There is femininity and masculinity. There are males and females who exhibit masculinity and femininity to varying degrees. I believe that most who exhibit traits that are contrary to their sex do it within a range that society considers normal. Some exhibit traits of the opposite sex to the extent that they can pass and are accepted as being the opposite sex. Some are stuck somewhere inbetween. They exhibit such a mixture of traits of the opposite sex that society does not know how to react to them.
Note: None of that is meant to be judgemental. Those are just comments on my observations.
I feel very male but when I crossdress I feel feminine in my own skin. I don’t wear shapewear nor breast forms nor do I have a desire to.. seeing myself in ladies clothes makes me love my body just the way it is because I feel these clothes emphasize my figure and features.. then I again I feel have a more feminine body . Dressing makes me feel beautiful (:
Hi, Natalie.
You express something that is rarely put into words but which I feel I have observed in the results presented. That many have the ability (physiologically) to be beautiful in a feminine sense and manner and are most happy as fulfilling that ability without the need to be ‘female’.
My theory, almost a conclusion, is that being a woman is not irreconcilable with being male. Cows are female, but not women. Therefore being a woman is a human attribute and not a sex attribute. That attribute is linked with the social conventions of behaviour specifically seen to be feminine. Therefore a male being genuinely feminine can be viewed as being as much a woman as another feminine person.
Until recently, most males attempting to be feminine emulate fashions, styles, behaviours, etc. specifically associated with females but I seen to discern a movement to a more specific femininity somewhat similar to the feminization of masculine clothing (i.e., St. Laurent’s ‘le smoking’ transformation of the tuxedo jacket) in the past.
Araminta.
Goodmorning Araminta. I recently attended a Ball in Katoomba, New South Wales, out of Sydney.
A long standing support club for crossdressers. Fantastic weekend.People of differing sizes, but the effort to dress as we felt was significant.
A range of feminine attributes on show, more experienced at makeup, clothing, appearance, walking, to more people like myself, long term dressers, but new to the outside fully enfemme.
Well done with your question.
JaneHi, Jane.
You peripherally touch upon a related issue. Femininity is, in many way, performative and a creative art. Most females are exposed to styles, methods, techniques, etc. at an early age. The extent of the cosmetics and fashion industries attests to this.
Males, however, have been permitted little opportunity to practice these skills and the experiment with their own ‘look’. One might incorrectly infer that unskilled males are deliberately presenting inauthentically as feminine rather than simply in the acquisition stages of knowledge and experience.
Gender variant events, such as balls, or debutante-type affairs have been around for a long time. One person pointed out early events in the USA in the 1800s. These need to be fostered as a means of exhibiting and normalizing femininity by males and raises, to me, the question a to whether certain variations in feminization might not be peculiar to males. Also, such events allow people who feel isolated and demeaned to take pride in their beauty and their accomplishments in creating it.
Araminta.
Yeah, basically I am trying to understand the relative complexities by proposing only one of numerous ideas. Athenising is simply enhancing one’s femininity (appearance and behaviour as well as interactions) through a variety of means. ‘Fashion’ and what that implies is just part of it. It could just be the way you smile. The basic idea is that where ‘cross-dressing’ infers males trying to be females (a gross misconception), athenise just means being feminine. Whether you are male or female is not the issue. I have seen too many males being authentic women (and quite a few females lacking that fullness of authenticity) to believe that a male cannot be a lady.
Araminta.
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