- October 17, 2020 at 12:18 pm #395741Jennifer SwansonParticipantRegistered On: April 20, 2019Topics: 43Replies: 153Has thanked: 3450 timesBeen thanked: 908 times
As cross dressers we all admire cis women. Which of the attributes of cis women would you most like to emulate? Select as many responses as you would like.
- October 21, 2020 at 9:53 am #397079Bobbi SueParticipantRegistered On: September 15, 2020Topics: 10Replies: 52Has thanked: 95 timesBeen thanked: 326 times
Please don’t read this as if I’m a snooty, big headed, full of it, bitch. I’m just being sincere. I didn’t vote for any. Why you ask? Well, regardless of how I present I already have those traits. That’s a big part of why I dress. The female me just fits better. Always has.
- October 21, 2020 at 3:44 pm #397233Araminta PurdyParticipantRegistered On: January 23, 2020Topics: 1Replies: 168Has thanked: 215 timesBeen thanked: 501 times
Yeah, that is a point that I failed to emphasize. Traits or attributes that western society clearly attributed to one sex or another 50-years ago are now considered just as valid for either sex. At least by people who actually think about such matters. For example, “Self-sufficient”, was once deemed to be a necessary, even a solely, masculine trait. Now it is recognized that demanding self-sufficiency can be an inequitable imposition on males and that females have just as much of a chance of being self-sufficient.
Even the terms masculine and feminine barely made the cut (75%) 20-years ago and it seems to be more recognized that males can be feminine which creates the paradox that femininity (gender) is not necessarily a feminine (i.e, attributable solely to females) trait.
These modified concepts not only suggest whole, new modes of thought that, at one time, were only expressed by a few people but they also suggest that the way we think about many aspects of human behaviour need a serious reconsideration. What we once thought of as fixed truths become more nebulous or even just flat out wrong. Hence my distinction between being a woman (gender) and being female (sex).
- October 21, 2020 at 9:37 am #397075karley delawareParticipantRegistered On: October 23, 2017Topics: 9Replies: 375Has thanked: 1549 timesBeen thanked: 884 times
Hi . Its all those qualities. As karley develops , I use them to comfort my man side. He and I have had many conversations, and am his “girl on the side”………………..He is allowing me to be more and more a part of him. With these developing qualities, our intimate time is more intense . I help him release the emotional hurts to make him a more balanced and better man to his SO.
I enjoy being his girl…………..and help with any and all projects………..giving him confidence……….my girly spirit to see it through. I love his SO and am not competing with her. My intimate time with him is only to recharge his spirit and make him a much better man to his SO. I have been with him for many many years………….and am so happy to blossom as karley and help him.
- October 21, 2020 at 12:17 am #396950T.J. ByronParticipantRegistered On: October 18, 2018Topics: 0Replies: 220Has thanked: 1516 timesBeen thanked: 744 times
Wow, quite a dissertation. Impressive as well. It was like reading a journal article on the subject. Never,ever seen any one on this platform go to such lengths when asked a question.
Keep it up. I enjoy reading your thoughts on subjects.
- October 21, 2020 at 5:32 pm #397264ParticipantRegistered On: January 23, 2020Topics: 1Replies: 168Has thanked: 215 timesBeen thanked: 501 times
I did a 9-years study of what was available to me a few years ago. I was trying to understand my own motivations and kept noticing discrepancies. This led to a focus on the etymology of related terms and a reconsideration of the concepts and assumptions behind them.
I took notes. Ended up being 377-pages of notes. So, in a way, you are right as I largely cut and paste from that work.
Bem’s work, in spite of a few relative deficiencies, is brilliant in its recognition not only of androgyny as an identifiable gender but in the revelation that masculinity and femininity are not variations of each other or some sort of dichotomy but collections of separate and different values, styles, behaviours, etc. The idea that androgyny, where one can be in some ways, masculine, and in some ways, feminine, simultaneously without conflict is important. It leads to the idea that androgyny was a measure of adaptability and therefore more sane than the problems that derive from excessive rigidity.
It was also an early example of thinking about gender apart from sex where, since the 1930s, it was just assumed that masculinity pertained solely to males and any deviation from that conclusion was abnormal, pathological or immoral.
Where Bem seems to have missed majorly is in noting gender-variance. Those who use the BSRI often seem to miss that point. It seems probable to be that those who fall into the androgynous field could also be, at times, solely masculine or, at others, solely feminine. The test score might suggest that the person involved successfully synthesizes a distinct mode of gender from attributes traditionally though of masculine and those thought of as feminine. This may be an error in assessing someone adept at being either masculine or feminine and not necessarily merging the genders (although, they do, don’t they, which is why cross-dressers are generally more sane as they tend to androgynous adaptability).
This sort of bring me again to my former conclusions. Gender traits and attributes are not defined or mandated by one’s sex and often any assigned gender to those attributes and traits is a false perspective based on inaccurate premises. Rather they are valid regardless of the person’s sex. The fundamental nature of femininity, then, seems to lie in Beauty.
- October 18, 2020 at 4:49 pm #396133Jennifer SwansonParticipantRegistered On: April 20, 2019Topics: 43Replies: 153Has thanked: 3450 timesBeen thanked: 908 times
Araminta, what a great response. I think the closer we look the more we realize how similar men and women are. My favorite story was when I was clothes shopping and a woman came up to me to ask my opinion of an outfit. I was professionally dressed and she was in a t shirt and jeans. I offered my thoughts on the style and color and she seemed pleased. She either thought I had good taste or she thought I was gay and knew fashion. I sometimes wonder why we cds feel like someone will notice us when we usually dress better that the average woman.
- October 18, 2020 at 4:33 pm #396131Lee Ann RakersParticipantRegistered On: August 18, 2019Topics: 4Replies: 438Has thanked: 667 timesBeen thanked: 1304 times
- October 18, 2020 at 4:21 pm #396127ParticipantRegistered On: January 23, 2020Topics: 1Replies: 168Has thanked: 215 timesBeen thanked: 501 times
This poll is significant to me, as it tends to support one of my major theses: that the main motivation of cross-dressing is to be pretty. That is that a major component of femininity is the visual aspect of gender. Most males instinctively seek females for purposes of propagation and use the cues that indicate femaleness in that search. Those cues are the basis of the concept of beauty as exemplified by numerous artistic endeavours dating from prehistoric times. Most males viewing another male presenting adequately as feminine would instinctively respond to that perceived beauty.
Sandra Bem created the elements of her Sex-role Index (BSRI) in 1973 (444 males and 279 females) and in 1978 (340 females and 476 males) with the assistance of a number of undergraduates. These were, of course, Stanford University undergraduates (who else) so the concept of gender as applied to the relevant words, masculine and feminine, is that of West Coast Americans of that period. Substantially 60 terms were identified; 20 being seen as masculine by at least 75% of the respondents, 20 being seen as feminine and 20 being assigned no gender by the same proportion of respondents. The masculine terms or traits were:
Acts as leader, Ambitious, Assertive, Competitive, Dominant, Has leadership abilities, Individualistic, Masculine, Self-sufficient,Willing to take a stand, Aggressive, Analytical, Athletic, Defends own beliefs, Forceful, Independent, Makes decisions easily, Self-reliant, Strong personality, Willing to take risks
The feminine terms or traits included:
Affectionate, Childlike, Does not use harsh language, Feminine, Gentle Loves children Sensitive to the needs of others, Soft-spoken, Tender, Warm, Cheerful, Compassionate, Eager to soothe hurt feelings, Receptive to flattery, Gullible, Loyal, Shy, Sympathetic, Understanding, Yielding
The neutral versions, which were not scored in the results, were:
Adaptable, Conscientious, Friendly, Helpful, Jealous, Moody, Secretive, Solemn, Unpredictable, Conceited, Conventional, Happy, Inefficient, Likable, Reliable, Tactful, Truthful, Unsystematic
Note that in none of these are appearance held to be significant, probably as they were meant to be examinations of one’s own propensities or self rather than the effect one had on others. I feel, however, this was a major oversight.
Hoffman and Borders (2001) refer to another test of a group as:
“Ballard-Reisch and Elton (1992) assessed a predominantly middle-class, Caucasian, noncollege population in the western United States for their interpretations of whether the 60 BSRI items were viewed as “masculine,” “feminine,” or “neutral.” They found that 19 of the 60 items were viewed as neutral, only 1 item (i.e., feminine) was viewed as feminine, and only 1 item (i.e., masculine) was viewed as masculine. Agreement among participants in Ballard-Reisch and Elton’s study did not reach the established agreement level (75%) with regard to the remaining 39 items.”
That is, only the word ‘masculine’ was felt to be masculine and only the word ‘feminine’ was identified as feminine. Of the remainder, 19 were indicated as neutral and the remaining 39 did not score highly enough as either masculine or feminine to permit a general sense of agreement. There are similar reports and the belief is that the North American population has varied the conventions relative to the gender of words (and their applications to humans) radically. Hoffman and Borders (2001), using the BSRI on 371 persons (98 males and 298 females) noted similar results. Many of the words and terms listed above were regarded as neutral and there were notable differences. ‘Independent’, originally taken to be ‘masculine’ was rated by 83% by respondents as ‘neutral’. ‘Forceful’, originally masculine, was rated 0% feminine, 66% masculine and 34% neutral. That is, 66% of the subjects felt that being forceful was a solely masculine trait but 34% felt it could be either. None felt that it was solely feminine. There had to be 75% or higher agreement to define a word as either ‘masculine’ or ‘feminine’ so ‘forceful’ was basically seen as a neutral word. This likely reflects a change of the subjective valuation of traits not only in terms of ‘grammatical gender’ but also in terms of their applicability to either sex or ‘natural gender’. It would appear that women can be seen as forceful but that being forceful is not highly regarded in women and so it is seen as largely ‘masculine’.
So, while masculine can be seen to be what pertains to being male and feminine to being female, the precise identities of those criteria are in a process of social evolution. Perhaps even more so as being feminine does not necessarily pertain to being female and some are even more aware of that fact since 2001.
Not only is appearance a crucial element of gender presentation but also it is not only how we perceive ourselves. I have seen sufficient of individuals who claim to ‘feel’ feminine with a rather minimum of feminine clothing with whose assessment I would almost totally disagree. Gender presentation is also assessed by how others view that appearance. And this assessment is cultural, variable within varying societies.
Note that in creating the sex-role inventory many of the attributes listed are comparable to those in this informal poll except ‘Beautiful’ and ‘Sensuous’, and yet, if the prime reason to cross-dress, indeed, to be feminine, is to be sensuously beautiful then they are serious omissions in the earlier considerations. This poll not only highlights the significance of that omission it emphasizes their importance in creating and defining not only femininity but also the motives for being feminine. The sex-role inventory highlights the behavioural aspects of gender but ignored the components of presentation that include not only appearance but also mannerisms, speech-patterns, modes of social interaction and other factors.
Personally I would not admit to being beautiful but, when athenased, I feel that I AM more beautiful and I FEEL more sensuous.
So, nice poll. Very intriguing and revealing.
- October 18, 2020 at 2:49 pm #396090Phoebe SmythParticipantRegistered On: February 2, 2020Topics: 1Replies: 118Has thanked: 253 timesBeen thanked: 200 times
- October 18, 2020 at 7:57 am #395965Laura Jane MooreParticipantRegistered On: July 10, 2020Topics: 3Replies: 73Has thanked: 495 timesBeen thanked: 283 times
- October 18, 2020 at 7:53 am #395960Patty PhoseParticipantRegistered On: May 7, 2016Topics: 0Replies: 1363Has thanked: 956 timesBeen thanked: 3180 times
- October 18, 2020 at 7:30 am #395946Rei DurdenParticipantRegistered On: October 11, 2020Topics: 6Replies: 190Has thanked: 1057 timesBeen thanked: 548 times
The obvious answer for me most days is strictly physically attractive, but being empathetic, sympathetic, intuitive, patient, kind, thoughtful, respectful are all admirable qualities I aspire to emulate. Perhaps as the beauty on the inside grows it shines through to the outside? I know it does for my SO.
- October 17, 2020 at 10:40 pm #395874stephanie plumbParticipantRegistered On: November 17, 2018Topics: 88Replies: 782Has thanked: 889 timesBeen thanked: 2656 times
Sorry Jennifer, but I do not wish to emulate any of them.
Emulate = imitate. To imitate is to behave in a way similar to that attribute, but not developing it as our own.
I would like to improve myself in most of these attributes, which most of us have to some degree or other. I would also like to point out that most apply also to cis men – they are not exclusively female. Take those away and the list grows shorter.
Perhaps your poll should have read “which feminine attributes do you most try to attain.”
- October 17, 2020 at 10:12 pm #395860Laura Jane MooreParticipantRegistered On: July 10, 2020Topics: 3Replies: 73Has thanked: 495 timesBeen thanked: 283 times
- October 17, 2020 at 7:32 pm #395819T.J. ByronParticipantRegistered On: October 18, 2018Topics: 0Replies: 220Has thanked: 1516 timesBeen thanked: 744 times
I teach ” The ART” of CDing here in the Puget Sound,WA. IF and when I write the book , you have assembled a great list of attributes of desirable qualities here.
Hard to not chose ALL OF THESE!
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