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See I really don’t quite fit into any group.
See, I’m one that don’t quite fit in with crossdressers. I don’t do girly
I don’t fit in with transgenders, because I’m completely happy being a dude.
I don’t so drag queen, why because I hate make-up for one thing.
I think the closes group I fit into is the androgynous group. I wear women’s clothing 24/7, don’t wear make-up, I act very masculine with a hint of girly and I wear beard
I just why put us into groups. Groups lead to hate and hate leads to wars.
Best example I have. Just look at political parties. Look how much they hate each other.
Hippie
“See I really don’t quite fit into any group.” Hippie
You fit into the “I am a manly man who wears women’s clothing 24/7” group. 🥳
It’s a short enough life that you don’t need to stress yourself out over this. Revel in it.
I think the majority of us do not feel we fit in a particulal group. My group would be constantly changing. I thing we all fit under the same umbrella though. I do not understand the recent backlash against trans people. Why do so many people care how others present themselves? Some guys wear their pants with their butt hanging out. Not for me but I sure don’t give a crap either. I am conservative but life is too short to spend all your time judging others. Idiots ! I think some men are that way because they have repressed feeling of how they feel themselves. I can’t imagine either sex not woundering how it would feel to represent as the other. Feels pretty good to me.
Hippie,
I can understand from where you are coming. For years, I have struggled with how best to describe my view of myself and how I present to myself to society at large. While I recently have begun to see myself as transgender, I am not transgender in the normal (statiscal definition) view.
My gender identification is male. I am a man, and am proud to be that man. I do not desire to be a woman. However, my gender expression is more feminine in nature, but more properly a mixture of both masculine and feminine. I generally prefer to wear feminine clothing especially in the casual and professional realm. Yet, I do not wear make up (aside from nail polish on all of my nails). I also sport a military short hair cut and neatly trimmed mustache and goatee, both of which my wife absolutely loves.
I also have very deep feelings that I should have breasts. My natural bust line is a small B cup, and as a result I have found that I more comfortable wearing a bra for support full time especially during physical activity. I also generally wear forms which properly fill out my bra to give me a solid B cup or small C cup bust line as my bras are more comfortable with forms.
But to add more confusion to the mix, I absolutely love the image that I cut wearing semiformal and formal menswear. This is especially true when I am able to provide an escort for my beautiful wife.
So in closing, I will say that I have never like the labels that you described in your post, and for many of the same reasons. And as such, I have endeavor to present myself as me, and to describe myself as authentically as possible.
MacKenzie Alexandra
Hippie, I think they group us all together because it’s simply easier for them that way. They aren’t so much into trying to understand all the differences in us, so they just group us all together as “undesirables”?
And, PLEASE everyone, lets not take this into any political rants here! You know what’ll happen then, right? ( nothing good )
Stevie
Two main reasons, convenience and ignorance. It is easier to clump things together then it is to make up more and more categories. I think ignorance is a larger factor as most people really do not understand that there are differences in the various type of people, but are ignorant of the fact that crossdressers are not necessarily transgender, and gay/lesbians are not either. Few in the general population. have a clue about gender issues in general, let alone all the subtleties.
People have a natural tendency to categorize things, and want labels for everything. In biology we call in pigeon holing…trying to fit everything in neat little boxes. In reality just about everything is on a continuum with subtle gradations between groups or categories instead of distinct changes.
Everyone puts things in boxes. It’s the only way we can make sense of the world. Every tree is different. And while you may recognize a tree in your back yard, you can’t recognize all trees like that. You get certain characteristics of trees, and if what you’re looking at meets those characteristics you “put it in that box.” If it meets most criteria, (a pine tree has needles and says green all winter) you may expand your box. This way I can look at a tree I’ve never seen and still tell you it’s a tree.
Of course, one box doesn’t define the object. I am a father, an ex-husband, a brother, an uncle, a grandfather, an IT professional, and a crossdresser among others. Putting me in a box to define me is like the blind men and the elephant. Each is right in their perspective, but that doesn’t define the complete picture.
I think the categories that are defined are heterosexual cis-gendered individuals and all others. Those who stray a little too far outside those categories are “discarded from the first box” and therefore lumped together in the “all other box.”
But the box really shouldn’t be an all-defining category. It should be a grounding point from which further discussion can ensue. For example, some crossdressers are just happy to wear certain items of women’s clothing. Others will dress fully but not go out. Others have the need to be in public spaces, whether or not fully dressed. Just putting me in the “crossdresser” box doesn’t tell you enough about me.
It’s for this reason I don’t worry too much about the box labels. These are not the be-all, end-all points. They are simply jumping off points to start a conversation about our complicated selves.
I agree with a long ago member here who said (correctly in my opinion) – labels are for cans, not people”. The world is a far better place when we don’t try to identify with “group identities” but as the wonderful unique individuals we are. And are judged only by the content of our character, not by appearance, heritage or any other thing. Just my thoughts of course!
CynI would have to disagree with that for various reasons. I’m pretty certain that my background and history is nothing like yours. We are very likely different in a number of ways, but perhaps not in all ways. How do we know that we are different? We know due to the terms that we use to describe ourselves. To dismiss these descriptors, in effect, says that we have no interest in understanding how we as similar and how we are different. It can also help explain where and how our thought processes diverge. If I said to you,
I Am:
- Midwesterner
- Mechanical Engineer
- Retired
- Spouse
- Parent
- Grandparent
- Sibling
- Grew Up Presbyterian
- Transgender, Non-Binary Woman
- Lesbian
- Motorsports Fan
- Mid-Century Architecture Fan
- Computer Enthusiast
- Photography Enthusiast
- Diabetic
- Cyclist
- LGBT Community Center Board Member
- Chair, Public Arts Commission
- Patent Holder
- Copper Jewelry Collector
- A Traveller
All these things (and some others) describe me. How else could I convey to someone else all these parts and pieces that represent who I am without using some sort of descriptive vocabulary?
There isn’t anything inherently improper about a label unless it is misapplied and misapplied for some negative purpose. I think what has happened is that many have been on the wrong end of things because that is what someone intended to do and that is to make us feel Less Than…
If you have no sense of terminology and alignment, how do you know who your constituents are?
The Universe has terms and labels. A few years back I figured that I could take 28 words to describe myself or just say Transgender Non-Binary.
Shorthand is all it is.
Do we say Soldier or do we say Members of the Military Who Train and Perform Offensive and Defensive Maneuvers Towards the Protection and Security of the United States and its Citizens.
Brevity is a virtue.
Hippie,
Not all groups lead to hate. CDH is a group and we’re all members, yet, none of us are talking about hating another group, though it does happen too often in society in general. Groups also give us a sense of belonging and acceptance, things that I for one, needed. And we’re all of here, on the LGBTQ+ spectrum to some degree. However, your definition of yourself is the only one that should matter to you and others should respect that.
And putting things and people into some form of classification helps us to understand our world better. This is safe, that is dangerous. This is right and that is wrong. These people are this way and those people are that way. Sometimes we group things or people based on very sound knowledge and other times we do so based upon ignorance. I for one admit my guilt in labeling things, for right or wrong. Thanks for the interesting topic.
Hugs, Jill
Hi Hippie, from my view, most people want to belong to something, somewhere. A single person is not a group, two or more are a group. If you want to belong somewhere, where people understand you, welcome you, encourage you to share, and are willing to share their own stories in the hopes that others will see that they are not alone, well, the only place for that is a group. And that’s what CDH is.
Why is it called Crossdresser Heaven? I’m not sure except that most other names will not mean as much or appear to those wondering if they should join that group as being a place where they are welcome. They are, and we all here do our best to make others feel welcome.
As I’ve said, I’m a failed transsexual. I probably should have transitioned some time ago. The problem with that is there is still a group I love belonging to, the group of my family members, which includes brothers and sisters and their immediate families, adult children and spouses in some cases, and grandchildren. The last several that wouldn’t exist had I chosen a different path. I can’t possibly give all that up.
See, that’s a group and I belong to that, too. So years ago, I made a choice and accepting that my own personal desires will never change, I chose the path I’m now on. So, is there a group for failed ts? Not so far as I have found.
But, this group right here is a happy alternative where I can share with others, offer my own perspectives and maybe even learn a little more not just about others, but about myself. How? By working through my own feelings as I try to help others work through theirs. Sharing, consoling, encouraging, being there. And that’s what differentiates groups like this from groups like you’ve mentioned.
We encourage acceptance, understanding, sharing, searching for better things. Like the old saying, others draw circles to keep people out, our circle is always looking to grow to welcome people in.
Hugs, ChloëC
I would posit that there isn’t such a thing as “failed” here. The only thing that we can do is make decisions that are appropriate at the time and for the circumstances. Sometimes we are right. Sometimes we are wrong. However, being wrong is an opportunity to learn from the experience and allow that to help shape future behavior.
Knowledge is useless unless we synthesize it and apply it…
I’ve heard it said that there are only two groups of people… those who categorize people into groups and those who don’t.
Groups can help define, and they can divide. Division can be good in some settings and bad in others. I can truthfully say I am “transgender non-binary” but I won’t, unless I am speaking with someone who shares my understanding of the meaning of these terms and it serves positive purpose. My daughter tries to explain to my ex-wife that I am transgender but I ask her not to, because my ex-wife believes this means I am gay, deviant, morally bankrupt, apt to transition, dangerous, not a man, and much more. The intention of gaining accepance and understanding won’t succeed. So why say it?
What I say or don’t say depends on the audience, what I think they need to know or can understand, and whether it will serve positive purpose.
Best to say nothing and be thought a fool than open one’s mouth and remove all doubt.
You are transgender, regardless of emotional or biological factors. You are transgender when your expression differs from your appearance. It should be based on chromosomes/gonads, but our society has hangups on appearance and presentation. Whatever other heading you might be called, it falls under the umbrella term, transgender. Heterosexual crossdresser on one end and pre-op transexual on the other end and the thousands (millions?) of expressions in-between are all transgender.
I agree…In practice there are widely divergent opinions on the definition of “transgender”, and the application of this term has morphed over time. Knowing this, I seldom use the term to describe myself unless in the company of those who would likely know what I mean and not conclude I am on a path to transition, believe myself to be a woman, gay, or any number of connotations. Here is the WPATH definition, clarified when I went to their DC conference a couple years ago and met with the folks who originally used the term “transgender”, not envisioning at that time that it would NOT include crossdressers or the spectrum even though it later came to be used as both an umbrella term and a term describing someone who had transitioned. So we modified the Standards of Care and training of worldwide health care professionals to use the following behavior-oriented definition of “transgender”, to which I personally ascribe, as long as used with caution and, in many cases, with further clarification to avoid misunderstanding:
Transgender people are those whose gender behaviors are not always stereotypical of their culturally-assigned gender behavior category at birth. Gender behavior might include dress, presentation and/or verbal expression of gender or gender identity. Such behavior should not be judged as rare or inherently pathological or negative.
Note: There is, to my knowledge, no univerally accepted definition of “crossdresser.” That term has been even tougher for folks to agree upon.
CDH is the first group I have ever been a member of that everyone seems to be not just tolerant but loving of all members. I have sisters whose lifestyle I would never follow but I really do root for their happiness, as I’m sure they do mine. You sisters have changed me so much and I thank all of you from the bottom of my heart. Hugs to you all , Lorraine P.S. I did it and I didn’t even use the word politics once, so proud of myself
Labels are important. Correct labels even more so. Eg medical terminology helps us with health care.
Psychological terminology helps us diagnose and treat mental health issues.
Lgb…alphabet are sociological terms that help us discover where we fit on the spectrum. They are useful for introspective self discovery.
hippie:
I think the answer your question lies in the boundary between the male and female. What we inside the community know is that it isn’t a hard line in the sand. It can be very fuzzy as to where one ends and the other begins. We all cross that boundary, whether in one direction or back and forth, but we are all well acquainted with that line.
I would consider myself a traditional conservative – but not what the current main stream seems to have become – but I have mellowed towards the centre with older age. Regardless, my brain works fine…. That’s an awfully broad brush your painting people of a group with. Kinda sounds like the attitude of the people you’re ranting on a bit, doesn’t it?
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