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  • #399615
    Focus And Sunshine
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    Registered On: April 2, 2020
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    Well, I’m starting a new post.

    My fiancé told me a few months ago he liked to wear women’s clothes. That was absolutely fine for me – not a deal breaker.

    We’ve done each other’s makeup a few times, got dressed up together, hung out a bit doing normal everyday things together dressed up, had a bit of fun together as well.

    What’s not OK with me is what I found out yesterday morning.

    I had a feeling he was keeping something from me. I had that feeling before he told me about liking to wear women’s clothes, and I’ve had it again since he told me.

    He’s always been very open with his passwords with me. Partly because my ex-husband had affairs and I discovered them through text messages and emails.

    I really appreciated my fiancé being so open with me, but never looked (in spite of feeling he was keeping something from me – I told myself it would come out in time).

    So that feeling, yesterday morning I acted on in and had a look at his computer. History wiped clean. But there was a ‘history from other devices’ option (meaning his phone history).

    I discovered a gay ‘dating’ website he’d visited 2 days previously (when we’d been together). He looked at a young guys profile.

    I searched the computer for the name of the website, and it came up that he’d joined a year previously.

    I threw up, had instant diarrhoea (that’s lasted all day) and got the shakes really badly. I’ve been crying for hours. I’ve only managed to sleep for 3 hours last night.

    I called him at work. We talked for over an hour. It took a while – and a good few lies on his part – to get the truth out of him.

    I think I’m at the truth now, or enough of it to make sense of it all. It also feels like the truth to me. This is what we have:

    He gets turned on by wearing women’s clothes (which I knew and am fine with).

    He gets turned on by seeing other men dressed as women. And turned on by watching women with men dressed as women. Or by watching 2 women together.

    He chases a thrill by taking, sending and sharing pictures of him dressed up and getting pictures of men dressed up. And some of those pictures are very explicit. Acting on these fantasies with people outside our relationship is not OK with me.

    We talked for about 4 hours yesterday about this. I tried to find out why. He said he doesn’t know, He does sound genuinely heartbroken that he’s done this. And said he doesn’t want to lose me.

    I think that a part of this was being able to share his liking for dressing in women’s clothes with like minded people. But I said I couldn’t understand why he hadn’t found a forum (like this) if that was part of it, which is a safer place to discuss and share experiences/thoughts/pictures. And one that you may not hide as much from your partner. I dunno.

    I said that what happens next also depends on him: there are people who do hurtful things in life, don’t have insight why, sweep them under the carpet because they can’t/don’t want to face them, and then repeat what they did however many weeks/months/years later. Which is absolutely fine…it’s the way they are and the way they want to live their lives. It’s their choice.

    And then there are people who do hurtful things, but want to use that as a spring board to becoming a better person, and do the work to face/deal with what they’ve done. For me that means going to counselling and doing the work. I’m sure there are other ways, but counselling is the one that springs to mind most readily to me. But anyway, that’s also their choice.

    So I said to him, I want to see what kind of person he is. Does he make a ton of promises but then just essentially carry on as before? Or does he stop and take stock of his past behaviour?

    At the moment I’m not holding out much hope. I asked him when he started the online life, and he said when they (him and his ex wife) got internet in the late 90s. He said it’s ebbed and flowed and sometimes he doesn’t do anything for months or years.

    For me, he’s conflating the dressing up with women’s clothes with chasing the thrill outside of our relationship. And I told him they’re not connected in my mind.

    Anyway, there we go. I don’t trust him at all now. I don’t particularly like him at the moment either. I don’t have much respect for him. I don’t want to be anywhere near him (physically) and I certainly don’t want to be in his house, or have him in mine, or go to sleep together at night  – which is hard, as we have a long distance relationship (it’s a 2 hour drive to my house). I’d maybe consider a coffee for a few hours at some point (not this week or weekend), but he can drive to my house for that.

    I have no idea of what he could possibly do to try and remedy the situation.

    The hard cold reality of chasing the fantasy. 

Viewing 41 reply threads
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    • #400883
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Registered On: April 2, 2020
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      Sunshine,

      I’m sorry  for this pain you are going through, and I hope I won’t add to it by saying this; but I must agree with Robyn.  Your fiance is a addict – whether adrenaline, porn or sex doesn’t matter; and if you stay, you will be hurt even more.  There are so many single CDs out there who  would treasure your companionship if given the opportunity; it’s a shame you didn’t meet one of them, instead. I do wish you a happier future.

      Hugs,

      Bettylou

      Thank you so much.

      He’s made himself an appointment with a counsellor and is going to see her next week (on Friday).

      I absolutely agree with you, about being an addict. And the form of it is really pretty irrelevant. The mechanisms are always the same.

      I’m dreading this weekend, and I’m actually going back to Al-Anon. They have a daily meeting online every morning for half an hour (because of lockdown), and also other meetings.

      I had a really nice chat with one of the volunteers last night, She gave me really great input into ‘letting the situation go’ and not feeling so attached to the outcome.

      I honestly feel it’s time for me to continue my Al-Anon journey that I started when it dawned on my my ex husband had been an alcoholic. It’s my journey, for me, for my own benefit.

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    • #400882
      Focus And Sunshine
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      I disagree that virtual texting / sexting is a harmless fantasy. It’s incredibly destructive to the relationship.

      It’s as destructive as pornography is. You are bringing a third party into the bedroom. And it’s not honoring to your partner.

      In many ways texting / sexting is more destructive than porn because you are engaging in sexual activity with someone else who responds back to you.

      In other words, its complete betrayal to your partner, and your relationship.

      Its my observation that so called open relationships cannot, and do not work.

      Thank you.

      This is exactly how I feel. You have articulated it much more clearly and succinctly than I have.

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    • #400857
      Bettylou Cox
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      Registered On: May 26, 2019
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      Sunshine,

      I’m sorry  for this pain you are going through, and I hope I won’t add to it by saying this; but I must agree with Robyn.  Your fiance is a addict – whether adrenaline, porn or sex doesn’t matter; and if you stay, you will be hurt even more.  There are so many single CDs out there who  would treasure your companionship if given the opportunity; it’s a shame you didn’t meet one of them, instead. I do wish you a happier future.

      Hugs,

      Bettylou

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    • #400779
      Focus And Sunshine
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      “As best I can tell from your post  he communicates and shares sex pictures with other CDs on line.  Does he meet with them in person for sex or is it just virtual?”

      Thank you.

      I’m pretty sure they’re just virtual.

      I believe sharing fantasies via email or chat rooms is a fairly common practice with CDs and usually goes no further than that due to both distance and the fact that you really don’t know who your talking to for sure. I guess I’m a little surprised this bothers you so much unless you feel it will escalate to in person meetings which is a possibility.  Overall, virtual exchanges seem fairly harmless to me especially if they serve a desire that can’t served any other way.  Two people in any relationship can not be all things to each other.

      If I may take a guess, it probably feels like just about the worst betrayal you can image. On the level of “Stake Through The Heart”perhaps. There’s also the issue of being confronted with this information all at once without working up to it. I think anyone who had previously valued a relationship would be severely undone. After all, how many of us respond well to hand grenades?!?!

      I don’t know but my feeling is that virtual isn’t even real. It’s kind of like the difference between playing the game “Grand Theft Auto”  vs  going out and stealing someones car.

      Thank you.

      Those are real people, with real lives. They aren’t just…I dunno…made up online games, with cartoon characters. So it’s not like Grand Theft Auto. These images are real. And these people have real lives too – just like him.

      So if it’s not real to you, and feels detached from your own life, ask yourself if you would be willing to share that info, share those images and conversations with your spouse/SO? My guess would be no. Because you know full well they wouldn’t consider it as ‘just virtual’ and not real.

      I asked him how he might have felt if he had discovered I had shared explicit images with someone I didn’t know online? With the sole purpose of getting very sexually aroused? And sexually arousing someone else as well?

      While I was on the site (the gay ‘dating’ site) he have me the password for, a message popped up from a guy (27 years old, with the location), saying ‘R U horny?’. A real person, in real time, hoping, wanting and waiting to jerk off to my fiancé.

      I’m also really uncomfortable being so close to someone who can compartmentalise stuff in this way. It doesn’t seem healthy to me. You can’t lock this stuff away, hoping it’s not going to affect the rest of your life.

      This stuff eventually leaks out, at some point, somewhere along the line. You make a mistake, you forget to delete something, you give too much information away, some nutter starts stalking you and blackmailing you online.

      I’m sure many of you are aware of the damage of having your CDing discovered accidentally by your spouses, when you maybe hoped that it was something you could keep secret and private. I’m sure you’ve all read threads about spouses or SOs having no idea and then finding out, almost by chance. And the confusion, hurt and fallout that ensure from that, and how it rumbles on and on and all and it’s all so destructive and negative.

      Well, this is worse. Much worse. So imagine how on earth that must feel.

      Unless you’ve been cheated on by someone you trusted, like a spouse or a fiancé, you have no idea what it actually feels like in real like. How overwhelming and unbearably painful it is.

      I’ve only been managing to sleep 3 hours a night, I’ve not been able to eat since Tuesday morning and I’m having panic attacks.

      It’s all too real for me unfortunately.

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      • #400807
        Mary Jane
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        Registered On: September 30, 2020
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        I disagree that virtual texting / sexting is a harmless fantasy. It’s incredibly destructive to the relationship.

        It’s as destructive as pornography is. You are bringing a third party into the bedroom. And it’s not honoring to your partner.

        In many ways texting / sexting is more destructive than porn because you are engaging in sexual activity with someone else who responds back to you.

        In other words, its complete betrayal to your partner, and your relationship.

        Its my observation that so called open relationships cannot, and do not work.

        4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #400771
      DeeAnn Hopings
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      Registered On: November 10, 2019
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      “As best I can tell from your post  he communicates and shares sex pictures with other CDs on line.  Does he meet with them in person for sex or is it just virtual?”

      Thank you.

      I’m pretty sure they’re just virtual.

      I believe sharing fantasies via email or chat rooms is a fairly common practice with CDs and usually goes no further than that due to both distance and the fact that you really don’t know who your talking to for sure. I guess I’m a little surprised this bothers you so much unless you feel it will escalate to in person meetings which is a possibility.  Overall, virtual exchanges seem fairly harmless to me especially if they serve a desire that can’t served any other way.  Two people in any relationship can not be all things to each other.

      If I may take a guess, it probably feels like just about the worst betrayal you can image. On the level of “Stake Through The Heart”perhaps. There’s also the issue of being confronted with this information all at once without working up to it. I think anyone who had previously valued a relationship would be severely undone. After all, how many of us respond well to hand grenades?!?!

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    • #400683
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Registered On: April 2, 2020
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      Sorry that you found out about his looking at gay websites,  He says he is turned on by that as well as other things.  I know you are hurt, feel disrespected and don’t know what to do at this point.  Take some time to reflect and dig down deep to figure out what you truly want and if he will fulfill that want and need. It sounds like you are good with the cross dressing, which many ladies sad to say cannot handle.

      If you decide to stay and work things out, he already is being fully open with you, maybe you can take a more dominate “male” role with him if that is what he is looking for .  I know many Cd’s when dressed have interest in other cd’s or guys. But that is not what every cd is looking for.

      Take some time to think long and hard about about what you want to do.  If you stay, you will need to figure out how to not go down this path again.

      Take care and keep us posted.

      Thank you.

      I’m afraid I’m going to take apart a little of what you wrote. Maybe it’s just the mood I am in at the moment, so I do apologise in advance.

      I can’t get those pictures from the site out of my head. They are excruciating for me.

      Especially after having been so gentle and open about letting him know it was OK to confide about the CDing in the first place, and then talking about it, welcoming it into our life together.  Be under no illusion whatsoever, that took took a huge amount of energy and effort from me to go through all of that,

      There is nothing I want less than just the idea of having sex with him. And I certainly don’t want to be dominant, be more manly (or really even play at stuff). I am in woman in this relationship. I have no desire to ever see him in women’s clothes again, or talk about that with him, ever again.

      There is no way in hell I want him anywhere near me (at the moment). Not even meeting for a coffee for an hour. I can’t even deal with video chatting with him. We’re just talking over the phone and that’s it.

      He’s not being ‘fully open’ with me. He was still hiding s*** and lying to me last night on the phone. I very carefully set up a question, about something very specific, to which I already knew the answer. And he lied. Again. I’ve lost count of the amount of lies he’s told.

      It’s irrelevant now, what the truth may or may not be. I don’t want to be spending my time and energy chasing what I think may or may not be the truth.

      Apologies for the bluntness, but that is where I’m at today with all of this.

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    • #400675
      Leah
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      Registered On: June 13, 2018
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      Sorry that you found out about his looking at gay websites,  He says he is turned on by that as well as other things.  I know you are hurt, feel disrespected and don’t know what to do at this point.  Take some time to reflect and dig down deep to figure out what you truly want and if he will fulfill that want and need. It sounds like you are good with the cross dressing, which many ladies sad to say cannot handle.

      If you decide to stay and work things out, he already is being fully open with you, maybe you can take a more dominate “male” role with him if that is what he is looking for .  I know many Cd’s when dressed have interest in other cd’s or guys. But that is not what every cd is looking for.

      Take some time to think long and hard about about what you want to do.  If you stay, you will need to figure out how to not go down this path again.

      Take care and keep us posted.

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    • #400552
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Ms. Sunshine:

      Secondary to the Fundamental Issue is decision making; conscious decision making.

      From personal experience there have been times when I couldn’t make a decision or was afraid to. The result is that you get swept along with wherever the prevailing winds take take you. Sometimes that’s OK, but usually it is a case of “How in the hell did I get here?!?!

      A decision is an opportunity to move forward on our own terms. I’m not saying that we will always make right decisions or good decisions. We are human and we don’t always get it right. On the other hand, I like to think that we were given intelligence for a reason…

      Honestly, that made me laugh so much, in a good way.

      The very words I said to my fiancé last night when we were talking – about using your brain to make conscious, aware, self-aware decisions that are healthy for you.

      I think that’s the definition of an adult really (I also said that).

      And as an aside, I was probably telling myself that as well.

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    • #400549
      DeeAnn Hopings
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      Registered On: November 10, 2019
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      Ms. Sunshine:

      Secondary to the Fundamental Issue is decision making; conscious decision making.

      From personal experience there have been times when I couldn’t make a decision or was afraid to. The result is that you get swept along with wherever the prevailing winds take take you. Sometimes that’s OK, but usually it is a case of “How in the hell did I get here?!?!

      A decision is an opportunity to move forward on our own terms. I’m not saying that we will always make right decisions or good decisions. We are human and we don’t always get it right. On the other hand, I like to think that we were given intelligence for a reason…

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    • #400544
      Focus And Sunshine
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      In the midst of all this upheaval, there is one foundational issue:

      It is Paramount the you take good care of yourself!!!

      The problem is that in a depleted state, you may make an ill-considered decision or make the right decision but not be in shape to see it through.

      Not a good situation…

      Thank you.

      I’m starting to see that and get that.

      I think I’ve found this situation hugely triggering for all the reasons in my reply to Genevieve’s comment.

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    • #400539
      Focus And Sunshine
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      F&S…

      In my opinion, you are doing the right thing by staying on the sidelines… for now.

      However… as human beings, we need understanding and love, as do we need to give them. Be there for your Fiancé (or is it ‘Friend’ at this point) to help him with his ‘journey’ if he reaches out to you. You obviously love each other, as you were to be married. My ex wife (separated, however still married on paper) and I are still very good friends and confidants. I don’t know what I’d do without her.

      From what I have read online, many CD’s have ‘desires’ for men when they are dressed. So it doesn’t surprise me that your Fiancé visited a gay dating website. As you mentioned, you can’t tolerate this behavior. I 100% agree with you… It’s cheating.

      He Will Not Change. He may promise you that he will, but the ‘Urge’ is very powerfull (gets stronger as the years go by) and eventually he will fall back into old habits. He is who he is… you will not be able to change him.

      Time will heal your emotional wounds… when you are feeling better, reach out to him and offer your support… He will Love you for that I’m sure.

      Huggs and Kisses…

      Gen… 💋

      Thank you. And I agree with you.

      The more I think about it, the more I realise he’s been feeling, thinking, talking and behaving like an addict.

      Funny thing is, I’m already familiar with Al-Anon (because of my alcoholic ex husband). I really benefitted from going, a good few years ago, and still feeling the benefits in myself.

      When I went, I remember being shocked to recognise a lot of the dynamics from listening to other people talking about their experiences and relationships with their family members – there were so many similarities.

      And I also understood there had been a whole dynamic set up with my ex husband’s drinking that included everyone in his orbit really: myself, his family, his siblings, his work colleagues. It would have included his children as well, had we/he had any. That’s one of the reasons it had been so insidious. I never known that before. It was a huge comfort finding all that out, strangely. I felt less lost, and I understood so much about myself (none of it pretty either).

      I had seen myself as ‘the victim’, and ‘the martyr’, trying so hard to sort out the messes that he left behind, cover things up, accept his choices. I mean, it was so obvious that his dad (also an alcoholic), had recognised my behaviour and called me ‘a saint’. He wasn’t meaning it in a sarcastic way or anything.

      Then I understood the role that I had played in all of this. Surprise, surprise, I had been the enabler (and ‘the fixer’ in my words as well). And I had fallen into that because of my character and nature. I had all felt so easy and ‘natural’ to me to fix stuff and smooth things over.

      Those realisations were really, really painful by the way. I hadn’t been an innocent bystander, who was motivated by goodness. I had been complicit and motivated by some pretty dark and ugly needs myself.

      My behaviour had changed right after ex husband left (which was a good length of time before I had understood he had been an alcoholic and then discovered Al-Anon…maybe about a year?). Anyway, right after he left, I just dropped everything to do with sorting out his ‘stuff’. And focused on myself, used all my time and energy for myself. I then started making sure I had time to grow and become the person that I wanted to become, go on the journey that my marriage to this person had somehow deprived me of going on, because all of my time and energy and brain space had been taken up with his drinking.

      Then I discovered Al-Anon. And it was really powerful, to sit in a room with those other people. I felt like I really shot forward on my journey, understood so much more, had much more context, and felt so much less confused and isolated.

      So, what am I saying? I think it’s time for me to carry on my Al-Anon journey. Addicts are addicts, they’re all the same really. The dynamics are all the same.

      So I have to guard myself against being ‘the enabler’ and the fixer in this situation. And I think I am going to go one step further along that journey, and just let this man face the consequences of his behaviour himself. I never let my ex husband face the consequences of his behaviour. I was always there tidying things up for him, smoothing things over, making things better again, making sure everything was ‘back to normality’. All of that ended up consuming me more and more as his behaviour worsened, partly through his choices but also through my enabling.

      Funny thing is, just before I met my fiancé, I remember really hoping, really asking the universe from a good place, that my next partner (whenever that be) was ‘someone who made healthy choices for themselves’. And when I met my fiancé, I thought he did make healthy choices for himself: he had trained to be a professional athlete when he was younger, but then decided that he had wanted a family more so stepped down his training a bit. He still does an unbelievably physically demanding job and also runs and cycles a lot after work and in his soare time. He may be physically very healthy (no smoking or drinking to excess…actually, not much drinking at all, which was such a huge relief for me), but psychologically he hasn’t been/wasn’t making healthy choices.

      What I will say, is that this man talks to me. We can have a conversation about things, difficult things – like how we each feel about the situation that’s unfolded. I never had that before. My ex husband, I now understand, did a thing called ‘stonewalling’. 18 years of not engaging in any difficult conversation ever – at all. I mean, it was so bad, he didn’t even acknowledge in any way, what I was saying. Totally blank, no reaction whatsoever, not even a flicker of an eyelash.
      So to be able to express how I feel, have that acknowledged, for him to express how he feels about it all…those feel like really good things for me.

      But words can be just words. They need to be backed up with action/actions. I’m talking as much for myself as for him here. I need to enforce the consequences of his choices and actions. For my own sanity and wellbeing. Otherwise I’m just falling right back into the same patterns as I did before, in my previous life. And I really don’t want to go back there. It wasn’t good for me at all.

      So my consequences are to withdraw a good bit and leave him to make decisions (then see if he follows them with actions) about how he faces his behaviour. His decision (and actions), so far, has pointed to him starting to address and think about his choices and patterns of behaviour with professional help.

      I think I’m going back to Al-Anon. I think I’m going to use more of my time and energy for bolstering my own physical and psychological wellbeing and independence.

      That’s really about boundaries, isn’t it? Making sure there is a good strong boundary between you and another person, and you can’t do that unless you know who you are and what you’re about, and you really value those things about yourself and in yourself.

      I honestly feel like I’ve done a few year’s worth of growing, inside me, in the space of three days.

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    • #400492
      DeeAnn Hopings
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      In the midst of all this upheaval, there is one foundational issue:

      It is Paramount the you take good care of yourself!!!

      The problem is that in a depleted state, you may make an ill-considered decision or make the right decision but not be in shape to see it through.

      Not a good situation…

    • #400240
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Registered On: April 2, 2020
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      Dear Focus and Sunshine,

      You are hurting. You need to take care of yourself. That should be your priority, not trying to sort out others justifications and smoke screens. Let others reap what they sow.

      My ex cheated on me. I invested a lot of time trying to make things work. But it’s hard to run a one legged race. Now I look back and wonder if it’s even possible to earn trust back.

      Give yourself a big hug, just for being you!

      Take care!

      Kay

      Thank you. That’s such a kind and gentle reply. I really appreciate it.

       

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    • #400229
      Kay Anderson
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      Registered On: June 1, 2020
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      Dear Focus and Sunshine,

      You are hurting. You need to take care of yourself. That should be your priority, not trying to sort out others justifications and smoke screens. Let others reap what they sow.

      My ex cheated on me. I invested a lot of time trying to make things work. But it’s hard to run a one legged race. Now I look back and wonder if it’s even possible to earn trust back.

      Give yourself a big hug, just for being you!

      Take care!

      Kay

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    • #400211
      Bobbi Sue
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      Registered On: September 15, 2020
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      Just Wow…

      I wish I could say something to make everything better, but I can’t.

      I do understand where you’re coming from.   It’s all about trust.  😔

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    • #400198
      Genevïéve
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      Registered On: July 28, 2020
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      F&S…

      In my opinion, you are doing the right thing by staying on the sidelines… for now.

      However… as human beings, we need understanding and love, as do we need to give them. Be there for your Fiancé (or is it ‘Friend’ at this point) to help him with his ‘journey’ if he reaches out to you. You obviously love each other, as you were to be married. My ex wife (separated, however still married on paper) and I are still very good friends and confidants. I don’t know what I’d do without her.

      From what I have read online, many CD’s have ‘desires’ for men when they are dressed. So it doesn’t surprise me that your Fiancé visited a gay dating website. As you mentioned, you can’t tolerate this behavior. I 100% agree with you… It’s cheating.

      He Will Not Change. He may promise you that he will, but the ‘Urge’ is very powerfull (gets stronger as the years go by) and eventually he will fall back into old habits. He is who he is… you will not be able to change him.

      Time will heal your emotional wounds… when you are feeling better, reach out to him and offer your support… He will Love you for that I’m sure.

      Huggs and Kisses…

      Gen… 💋

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    • #400025
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Sorry to hear that things have not gone well. Life can get ugly sometimes as we are always imperfect creatures. It’s just how we, as humans, are. However, that in no way excuses the behaviors that you have mentioned.

      Anyway, I will raise one point. Being someone’s partner is a series of actions and responses and it applies to both. One of the things that counseling does is to get one to think about difficult things that we may not want to consider. The human mind is slippery and we can tell ourselves all sorts of things that appear to make sense, but don’t hold up under close scrutiny. That’s where the counselor comes in. But, it doesn’t mean that an issue is addressed at exactly that point in time, but the counselor works to keep the issue in front of us and in our consciousness. Over time, hopefully this means that an issue gets understood and processed.

      I say this as it may be useful for you to spend some time with a counselor. After you partner sorts out what he needs to do going forward, then is falls to you to figure out how to respond to that. However you choose to respond, it could make the understanding clearer and assist your resolve going forward.

      Anyway, you are not the first and sadly you won’t be the last.

      Best Wishes for a Good Outcome…

      Thank you.

      And I absolutely agree with what you say about counselling.

      I suffer from quite debilitating anxiety and have had a lot of counselling of various sorts for it over the years. I’ve had some terrible counselling and some absolutely incredible counselling, and a good measure that’s been somewhere in between.

      My mode of being has always been to tear down the layers of illusion and self protection I have built up, and  stare at whatever crap there is face on. Because in my mind when you’re at that point, it’s as bad as it can possibly be, and from there you can choose where you want to go.

      Now, I realise full well that it’s not everyone’s way, and other people do things in different ways. Which is totally fine. But that’s my approach.

      I’m sorry I can’t write more. It’s a very interesting topic. And I’m always interested in the masks people wear and the layers of justification they build up that makes them think and act the way they do. I’m also really interested in what lurks beneath – which isn’t always beautiful or noble. I’ve always been like that, since I was a child.

      I’m just exhausted. I’ve not eaten anything at all in 3 days and haven’t really slept much.

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    • #400023
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Simple answer hun

      YOUR A BEAUTIFUL PERSON AND YOU DESERVE BETTER

      Never forget this x

      Thank you.

      I feel like the playful, sexual part of me…well, I feel completely disinterested in that side of me now. I’m completely disinterested in what any other person may be like (in that sense).

      And I’ve always been quite warm and flirtatious with people, curious about them. Never inappropriately though, and I would always be happy to be the way I was with people with my partner by my side. I had nothing to hide.

      I’m 50, going through the perimenopause, that part of my life may just as well wither and die.

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    • #400021
      Focus And Sunshine
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      As best I can tell from your post  he communicates and shares sex pictures with other CDs on line.  Does he meet with them in person for sex or is it just virtual?

      Thank you.

      I’m pretty sure they’re just virtual.

    • #400019
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Life is difficult enough and a relationship between a male and female , long term is a full time commitment and requires a 100% loyalty from both party’s,  mentally and physically. If you throw  issues like the normal pressures of life , the pandemic , the dishonesty and deceit into the mixer the product that comes out is not, in my view a strong enough material to build a foundation for possibly the next half century  of your life. I have no wish to have caused any offence , and this is just purely my personal feelings. Good luck, and stay safe. Pyxx.

      No offence taken.

      I’m sorry I can’t write more.

    • #400018
      Focus And Sunshine
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      OH, Sunshine,

      I’m so sorry to have you going through all of this;  your fiance does (at the moment) appear to be either gay or bi, and this is terrible news for a straight GG.    Having fantasies is not harmful in itself; but if he is bisexual, can he or would he be faithful to you if you stayed together?   I believe your future together hinges on that question.  You deserve an answer, and as I recall, he has refused counseling, so you will have to manage alone.  Sorry I can’t provide any actual help with this.  You are a jewel, and any unattached CD here would be Blessed to have you as a partner.  I do hope things work out for you in the end.

      Hugs,

      Bettylou

       

      Thank you.

      He’s actually sought out counselling of his own accord. And wants to find out why he does these things, and feels the compulsion to do these things as well, even though he said he knows they’re not good for him in any way. So I’m OK with that.

      I honestly, dispassionately think he’s bisexual.

      And that, in itself, would not be a deal breaker for me. What is though is the acting out on whatever fantasies he’s having.

      I mean, sure, everyone has fantasies. And you might, or might not, share them with your partner. You might keep them to yourself – which is absolutely fair enough. Or you might talk about them with your partner – also fair enough. Or you might actively share them with your partner – also fair enough. As long as it’s something you both want to do and something you’re both comfortable with.

      But I don’t think you should be sharing them with other people, outside of your partnership. I don’t mean like…dunno…discussing them in counselling. I mean sharing them with other people with the intention of getting turned on.

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    • #400016
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Could it be possible the hair is from a wig?

      Thank you.

      It definitely wasn’t. It was a pubic hair.

      I had to ask him about the last night. He had no idea how it had got there, and suggested that it had maybe been his (grown up) daughter’s and her boyfriend who might have been at his house and slept in his bed.

      Maybe.

      But they’re both very blonde. And this hair wasn’t.

    • #400015
      Focus And Sunshine
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      I agree completely with other’s advice of “move forward” –there’s plenty of fish in the ocean, thank goodness you found out before marriage.

      This guy’s been lying to you and he’s confessed (more or less) only to what he’s been caught at.  Guarantee he is holding back/hiding more from you.  Guaranteed.  100% guaranteed.   And he’s not going to change his sexual impulses or fetishes, no matter what he might promise you.

      Chalk one up to life experience and move along, find a new guy.

      I’m not there yet. I can’t at the moment. It’s all too painful.

      I do agree about him hiding more.

      He’s told me he doesn’t use the sites to meet people. I kind of believe that. Or maybe I’m inclined to believe it? There’s definitely more, but i’m sure that it’s like it’s removed from ‘real’ life for him and not quite ‘real’.

      That’s actually neither here nor there really – the mechanism of it and the explanation of why.

      I’m so tired I can’t even string a sentence together or a rational thought together any more. I’ve had no food in 3 days and only slept a few hours each night.

      All I can think of is the last night I fell asleep before I knew all of this. And how different my world was.

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    • #400012
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Just my 2 cents, without trust there is nothin. and in my experience, the earning back of it never happens, because you always wonder, what is the truth? You stated he joined the site a year ago, so this isnt a passing whim.
      Again, just my beliefs, and I am truly sorry for you, there are many of us here would be in heaven with an SO that has your level of acceptance.
      We are all here for you, too.
      Hugs, Regine

      I agree totally.

      He’s said he’s used sites (including the same one as I found) on and off over the years.

      He’s said sometimes huge stretches of time go past and he doesn’t use one (or CD either) and then something triggers his desire to CD and he also then joins one of those sites.

      Funnily enough, when we were talking early on in our relationship about dates we’d been on since our marriages had finished (and were both single), he had told me he’d met a girl online arranged to meet. He told me she said ‘there are two of us’ and he was OK with that.

      Turns out it was a shagging site and he knew from the start there were two of them. He met with the knowledge and intention that there were two of them, and it wasn’t really a ‘date’ at all.

      I don’t know why he just didn’t tell me the truth? I mean, we were talking about a time before we knew each other and when we were both single. So what was the big deal about not actually saying it like it was?

      I’m exhausted by all of this.

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    • #399944
      Regine Rich
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      Just my 2 cents, without trust there is nothin. and in my experience, the earning back of it never happens, because you always wonder, what is the truth? You stated he joined the site a year ago, so this isnt a passing whim.
      Again, just my beliefs, and I am truly sorry for you, there are many of us here would be in heaven with an SO that has your level of acceptance.
      We are all here for you, too.
      Hugs, Regine

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    • #399939
      Jenny Thigh High
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      I agree completely with other’s advice of “move forward” –there’s plenty of fish in the ocean, thank goodness you found out before marriage.

      This guy’s been lying to you and he’s confessed (more or less) only to what he’s been caught at.  Guarantee he is holding back/hiding more from you.  Guaranteed.  100% guaranteed.   And he’s not going to change his sexual impulses or fetishes, no matter what he might promise you.

      Chalk one up to life experience and move along, find a new guy.

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      • #400031
        Genevïéve
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        ‘Guarantee he is holding back/hiding more from you.  Guaranteed.  100% guaranteed.   And he’s not going to change his sexual impulses or fetishes, no matter what he might promise you.’

        100% agree…  He is what he is. Nothing will change this fact.

        Gen… 💋

         

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        • #400127
          Focus And Sunshine
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          ‘Guarantee he is holding back/hiding more from you.  Guaranteed.  100% guaranteed.   And he’s not going to change his sexual impulses or fetishes, no matter what he might promise you.’

          100% agree…  He is what he is. Nothing will change this fact.

          Gen… 💋

           

          I agree.

          I’m not talking about the CDing in this post. As I’ve said, I never had an issue with that, (although at the moment I never want to see him in women’s clothes again. That’s just how I’m feeling right now).

          When he’s talked about the going online and inappropriate sharing, it’s like he’s using the language of an addict: he has no insight into why, it’s a ‘compulsion’, he feels worse afterwards, he stops for a while and then something triggers it all and he starts doing it again…

          So, here’s a thing. It takes the person who it addicted to want to do something about it. Nobody else. Nobody else caused it, can control it, or can cure it.

          Because of the industry I work in, I know a lot of drinkers and drug takers. I know that a fair few of them are addicts of different types of substances (but really the mechanism is all the same). I know some of them have made the decision to stop. Not many. Really not many at all. A tiny minority really. But for whatever reason, they made that decision.

          And then they got support, explored it, carried through with it.

          I’d say that is what makes you an adult. The capacity to stand back from your crap and take responsibility for it and for your actions. And to choose actions that are healthy for you, not destructive.

          So, this man has not been an adult in the way he’s behaved up to now. Can he be? I don’t know, I really don’t know. I have no control over that. Absolutely none.

          But can someone recognise how self destructive their behaviour has been and decide to not go down that path? I believe this of people in general. Otherwise addicts would always remain addicts. And a tiny few manage to go on that journey.

          I realise that so much of what I’ve written has been about him. Where am I?

          Annihilated. I don’t exist. The sheer fact of my being a woman – biologically for starters, not even upbringing, outlook, appearance – has rendered me invisible.

          I can’t compete with a fantasy, as I’ve told him over and over these past couple of days. I can’t compete with someone who looks like a woman, uses all the outwards trappings of womanhood and femininity, but is most definitely a man.

          It’s not fair to put someone – a real person – up against a fantasy. The real person will always come a miserable, pathetic second to the fantasy.

          And that is how I feel. Annihilated. Invisible. Second place. Pathetic. Worthless.

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    • #399934
      Mary Jane
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      Could it be possible the hair is from a wig?

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    • #399927
      Bettylou Cox
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      OH, Sunshine,

      I’m so sorry to have you going through all of this;  your fiance does (at the moment) appear to be either gay or bi, and this is terrible news for a straight GG.    Having fantasies is not harmful in itself; but if he is bisexual, can he or would he be faithful to you if you stayed together?   I believe your future together hinges on that question.  You deserve an answer, and as I recall, he has refused counseling, so you will have to manage alone.  Sorry I can’t provide any actual help with this.  You are a jewel, and any unattached CD here would be Blessed to have you as a partner.  I do hope things work out for you in the end.

      Hugs,

      Bettylou

       

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    • #399913
      PY Marshall
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      Life is difficult enough and a relationship between a male and female , long term is a full time commitment and requires a 100% loyalty from both party’s,  mentally and physically. If you throw  issues like the normal pressures of life , the pandemic , the dishonesty and deceit into the mixer the product that comes out is not, in my view a strong enough material to build a foundation for possibly the next half century  of your life. I have no wish to have caused any offence , and this is just purely my personal feelings. Good luck, and stay safe. Pyxx.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #399898
      Anonymous
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      Simple answer hun

      YOUR A BEAUTIFUL PERSON AND YOU DESERVE BETTER

      Never forget this x

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    • #399895
      DeeAnn Hopings
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      Sorry to hear that things have not gone well. Life can get ugly sometimes as we are always imperfect creatures. It’s just how we, as humans, are. However, that in no way excuses the behaviors that you have mentioned.

      Anyway, I will raise one point. Being someone’s partner is a series of actions and responses and it applies to both. One of the things that counseling does is to get one to think about difficult things that we may not want to consider. The human mind is slippery and we can tell ourselves all sorts of things that appear to make sense, but don’t hold up under close scrutiny. That’s where the counselor comes in. But, it doesn’t mean that an issue is addressed at exactly that point in time, but the counselor works to keep the issue in front of us and in our consciousness. Over time, hopefully this means that an issue gets understood and processed.

      I say this as it may be useful for you to spend some time with a counselor. After you partner sorts out what he needs to do going forward, then is falls to you to figure out how to respond to that. However you choose to respond, it could make the understanding clearer and assist your resolve going forward.

      Anyway, you are not the first and sadly you won’t be the last.

      Best Wishes for a Good Outcome…

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    • #399883
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Heck, I’ve just remembered something. And it’s not good.

      A while ago, earlier this year, before lockdown, I found a hair on his bed.

      I looked at it long and hard. I knew straight away it wasn’t mine or his.

      I remember telling myself to remember it, because it seemed important, even though I had no context.

      I had forgotten until now.

    • #399670
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Oh F&S that’s rubbish!  You are obviously very “in tune”, with your own feelings and awareness of situations to know that something wasn’t right, and that protective instinct you have for yourself is good and will help you look after yourself, whatever that outcome may be.

      As for your fiance, Im firmly of the opinion that if you are in a committed relationship you shouldn’t be looking elsewhere, full stop.  We all have our harmless fantasies (mainly about celebs on TV and in Films) but actively seeking out advances from others isn’t right, and could also be dangerous.

      Dressing can just be a sex fantasy, or it can be more than that with the sex fantasy element there as well and there is nothing wrong with that as long as both partners are happy but the secretive stuff is not ok, made even more so because of your history with your ex-husband!!

      I truly hope your fiance has found a good therapist and can work through things, addiction is a difficult one, and I honestly don’t know how you begin to deal with that I’m afraid.  One step at a time, one day at a time and your thoughts of standing on the sidelines and watching what evolves, while looking after yourself, sounds like a good option for now as you will also be in a state of shock, hurt and betrayal as well and need time to process those emotions as well.

      xx

      Yeah, my ex husband was also an alcoholic (so I realise now, looking back). One of those ‘high functioning’ ones, super successful and everyone thought he was brilliant.

      I did go to the family based AA thing after he left and I learnt a lot from that.

      So this does sound like an addition to me. It’s something to ‘fill the void’, an adrenaline rush, a temporary fix, but something that’s akin to self harm as well. He’s even said it feels like a compulsion, he ca’t understand why he does it.

      There’s absolutely nothing I can do about that. I didn’t cause it and I can’t control it…that’s what I learnt.

      And that actually makes me feel a little better.

      I don’t know if this is a turning point for him. I don’t think it’s ever been as much out in the open as it is now, with me.

      So, you know, we’ll see what unfolds.

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    • #399669
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Hi F&S,

      Wow  is all I can say. Many thanks for sharing this with us and I truly feel for you in this situation. Any CD/TG with a supportive parter like you has achieved the Golden Goal and is the envy of many on here.

      Being CD/TG is tainted with strong compulsions which are faced on a daily basis, linked with the need to dress, then the need to go out, then the need to interact etc… I call this the pandora complex, as every time you do something new it soon becomes the  new normal, the starting point for the next time and then  you are looking for the next experience.

      Then, when you try to put things away after dressing and return to a normal level, things come back stronger.

      I have a very supportive partner and have sometimes crossed the line by falling down a rabbit hole into an area that they were not comfortable with. So we stop, discuss and re-set the boundaries and move on again. Its not a good situation to be in and I am very upset if I do some something to breach the boundaries and break promises.

      I am very carful not to exceed  any agreed boundaries as I truly respect where my partner is coming from and how my actions can be very damaging to them and our relationship.

      However it has helped make our relationship stronger as we each learn about each other and how we deal with things. – even after 35 yrs we are still learning.

      I believe that your partner is very lucky to have someone like you, and really feel for you that your trust has been breached. It will take time to re-establish that trust and only you can manage that. Counselling may help heal the rift, and has been good for many others – but its not for everyone. Keep talking and keep the open and honest approach – ask them to tell you if they have any urges to go down new avenues and try to discuss with them how that makes you feel. Set boundaries and guidelines, but also plan fun times were you have girly days as a reward maybe, so as they have something exciting and adventurous to focus on in the future with you, under your control, rather than potter around in the dark.

      Remember we are here and so are SO’s in the private section who have had to deal with similar situations.

      Just my thoughts

      Hugs Dawn

      Thank you. That’s incredibly helpful. And it all makes absolute sense.

      I’m afraid the fun girly days you mention are well out the window, for a good while at least.

      We don’t live together. It’s a 2 hour drive, or two trains and a bus, to get to each other’s houses. And I really don’t want to be staying in his house at the moment, and I don’t really want him to stay in my house.

      The only option would be for him to come to me for a coffee in a cafe one Saturday/Sunday afternoon for a few hours, and then go home. I don’t drive and I don’t have any income or inancial support at all at the moment (a couple of hardship funds since March). Anyway, I don’t really want to be sharing a bed with him, even if it’s just for sleep.

      I’m really not sure how I feel about the girly stuff either. As far as I’m concerned it’s totally off the agenda at the moment. I don’t have any interest in sharing that with him at the moment.

      Of course, barely 24 hours into this total nightmare and I know everything might change in the blink of an eye…

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    • #399654
      Mandy Wife
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      Oh F&S that’s rubbish!  You are obviously very “in tune”, with your own feelings and awareness of situations to know that something wasn’t right, and that protective instinct you have for yourself is good and will help you look after yourself, whatever that outcome may be.

      As for your fiance, Im firmly of the opinion that if you are in a committed relationship you shouldn’t be looking elsewhere, full stop.  We all have our harmless fantasies (mainly about celebs on TV and in Films) but actively seeking out advances from others isn’t right, and could also be dangerous.

      Dressing can just be a sex fantasy, or it can be more than that with the sex fantasy element there as well and there is nothing wrong with that as long as both partners are happy but the secretive stuff is not ok, made even more so because of your history with your ex-husband!!

      I truly hope your fiance has found a good therapist and can work through things, addiction is a difficult one, and I honestly don’t know how you begin to deal with that I’m afraid.  One step at a time, one day at a time and your thoughts of standing on the sidelines and watching what evolves, while looking after yourself, sounds like a good option for now as you will also be in a state of shock, hurt and betrayal as well and need time to process those emotions as well.

      xx

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    • #399643
      Dawn Wyvern
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      Hi F&S,

      Wow  is all I can say. Many thanks for sharing this with us and I truly feel for you in this situation. Any CD/TG with a supportive parter like you has achieved the Golden Goal and is the envy of many on here.

      Being CD/TG is tainted with strong compulsions which are faced on a daily basis, linked with the need to dress, then the need to go out, then the need to interact etc… I call this the pandora complex, as every time you do something new it soon becomes the  new normal, the starting point for the next time and then  you are looking for the next experience.

      Then, when you try to put things away after dressing and return to a normal level, things come back stronger.

      I have a very supportive partner and have sometimes crossed the line by falling down a rabbit hole into an area that they were not comfortable with. So we stop, discuss and re-set the boundaries and move on again. Its not a good situation to be in and I am very upset if I do some something to breach the boundaries and break promises.

      I am very carful not to exceed  any agreed boundaries as I truly respect where my partner is coming from and how my actions can be very damaging to them and our relationship.

      However it has helped make our relationship stronger as we each learn about each other and how we deal with things. – even after 35 yrs we are still learning.

      I believe that your partner is very lucky to have someone like you, and really feel for you that your trust has been breached. It will take time to re-establish that trust and only you can manage that. Counselling may help heal the rift, and has been good for many others – but its not for everyone. Keep talking and keep the open and honest approach – ask them to tell you if they have any urges to go down new avenues and try to discuss with them how that makes you feel. Set boundaries and guidelines, but also plan fun times were you have girly days as a reward maybe, so as they have something exciting and adventurous to focus on in the future with you, under your control, rather than potter around in the dark.

      Remember we are here and so are SO’s in the private section who have had to deal with similar situations.

      Just my thoughts

      Hugs Dawn

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #399642
      Focus And Sunshine
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      Life gets messy. And its too early to make decisions. You don’t want to sweep things under the carpet. And you need to honestly process what is going on for you.

      Your partner needs to do the same.

       

      Thank you.

      He called me on his way to work (as he’s always done). So we chatted for a bit.

      It felt to me there was an amount of obfuscation and smoke screening on his part. I told him I would appreciate some brutal honesty as otherwise I feel like it’s melting my head.

      He’s maybe panicking and trying to smooth things out in the best way he can/only way he knows how, by saying he doesn’t remember stuff.

      Anyway, he told me he’d found a counsellor about half an hour from the village where he lives and he’s going to call for an appointment.

      I’m on the sidelines watching.

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #399639
      Mary Jane
      Participant
      Registered On: September 30, 2020
      Topics: 5
      Replies: 57
      Has thanked: 118 times
      Been thanked: 258 times

      Life gets messy. And its too early to make decisions. You don’t want to sweep things under the carpet. And you need to honestly process what is going on for you.

      Your partner needs to do the same.

       

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #399637
      Focus And Sunshine
      Participant
      Registered On: April 2, 2020
      Topics: 6
      Replies: 50
      Has thanked: 60 times
      Been thanked: 150 times

      Like @MaryJane said, he has a destructive adrenaline addiction.

      To use your words – “I don’t trust him at all now.”  =  Its over.  Deep breath and start moving forward.

      Just my 2 cents worth. *Big Hugs*

      xo – Robyn

      Thanks Robyn.

      I’m not quite ready for that. But it’s an option, for sure…I’m absolutely not discounting it.

      It’s only been 24 hours since I found out. And I’m the kind of person who likes to really mull things over, work stuff out in my mind, come to a solid conclusion and then present my thoughts to the outside world.

      The only exception to that would be if I was really close to someone, and I let them in as I was processing stuff and shared it with them. Not many people out there that fall into that category.

      Anyway, there we go. My instincts were absolutely right all along. There was something he was keeping hidden. In a few different ways.

      6 users thanked author for this post.
    • #399635
      Focus And Sunshine
      Participant
      Registered On: April 2, 2020
      Topics: 6
      Replies: 50
      Has thanked: 60 times
      Been thanked: 150 times

      He has an adrenaline addiction. And it’s fed through the same kind of destructive addictions such gambing and pornography.

      While a c’der, I’m also deeply conservative. Porn of any description doesn’t beong in the marriage. And boundaries keeping your relationship sacred is paramount.

      What your partner is doing, is far different to having a secret cd fetish / compulsion – where you are fearful of sharing with your SO.

       

       

      Thank you. It’s reassuring to hear my experience validated. I feel very alone at the moment.

      He does like crossdressing. He was very scared of telling me. He’s felt the urge to wear women’t clothes since he was 8 years old. I absolutely believe that. And it’s not a deal breaker for me.

      But the other stuff? I’m not OK with it – absolutely not OK with it.

      My ex husband had affairs for the last 6 years of our marriage (sometimes with girls 20 years younger than me). At the time I didn’t understand what was happening. I mean, why would your spouse cheat? You’ve made promises to each other.

      Anyway, what he set up was a dynamic where I felt compelled to compete with the affair partner. Again, I’ll say I didn’t understand what was happening, but looking back, that was the dynamic. And that competition was unfair – I didn’t know. And I was never going to measure up. I was always going to be the loser. Because I was competing against a fantasy.

      I absolutely agree with the other things you’ve said: the adrenaline and the compulsion. He’s talked about the compulsion and gets that it’s an attempt to fill something inside him.

      I told him lots of people have that void. It’s just that as adults we choose how to deal with it. Chasing addictions of whatever sort…we all know how that goes, how it makes you feel after the rush. He knows it diminishes him, he’s told me how bad he feels. So as an adult you make a different choice – a healthier one – because you know where the other path leads. If you want to, are capable, have the support, whatever…but the decisions and actions are your choice and your responsibility.

      So at the moment (and it’s been less than 24 hours since I found out) I’m thinking of standing by the sidelines and watching what he does to deal with it.

      But that might change. And I’m OK with that.

      Thank you for your reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to read and post.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #399630
      Robyn Devine
      Participant
      Registered On: October 24, 2020
      Topics: 9
      Replies: 279
      Has thanked: 686 times
      Been thanked: 1069 times

      Like @MaryJane said, he has a destructive adrenaline addiction.

      To use your words – “I don’t trust him at all now.”  =  Its over.  Deep breath and start moving forward.

      Just my 2 cents worth. *Big Hugs*

      xo – Robyn

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #399621
      Mary Jane
      Participant
      Registered On: September 30, 2020
      Topics: 5
      Replies: 57
      Has thanked: 118 times
      Been thanked: 258 times

      He has an adrenaline addiction. And it’s fed through the same kind of destructive addictions such gambing and pornography.

      While a c’der, I’m also deeply conservative. Porn of any description doesn’t beong in the marriage. And boundaries keeping your relationship sacred is paramount.

      What your partner is doing, is far different to having a secret cd fetish / compulsion – where you are fearful of sharing with your SO.

       

       

      5 users thanked author for this post.
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