• This topic has 27 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 6 days ago by De.
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  • #711523
    De
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    Registered On: January 22, 2023
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    I don’t know if this is the right place to post this, if not, I am truly sorry.

     

    I just know that I am starting to get angry and needed to get it out amongst people who understand.

     

    I just came out to my wife, and whilst I am still trying to figure out who I  and what I want she is very understanding.

     

    I gave her a little space to think it through and when I brought it up again she said that it is a lot to process and she needs time, which I can appreciate.

     

    Here is where I am getting angry (not at her though but in general for what we have to go through).

    I am angry that women can hop between whatever outfit they want whenever they want. She wants to buy mens shorts and shirts all the time because they fit better for her but when I want to put on a womens shirt or dress she needs to process this and I need to speak to a therapist to sort out my feelings.

    My wife can cut her hair short (really short) and I support her because it is what she wants but if I want to put on a wig or grow my hair she is afraid of loosing her husband.

     

    It just all feels so unfair.

    • This topic was modified 1 week ago by De.
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    • #713799
      Lila Temple
      Duchess
      Registered On: December 21, 2022
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      I find that anger and acceptance are not an either/or thing. I think anger…or outrage may be a better word… is an entirely appropriate response to the rampant misogyny that fills society. If i try to deny my outrage I disempower myself and often turn it in on myself. Daring to express my female self requires a lot of courage in the face of all the societal (read “patriarchal”) prohibitions and condemnation; my anger provides energy to stay the course. I told my therapist I felt ashamed that I was starting to do this at age 74. She said she considered it “a badass thing to be doing”. That has helped a lot. As for acceptance, it takes time and persistence, and I trust

      it will come if we keep our hearts open to ourselves and appreciate what a brave and difficult thing we are doing.

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      • #713805
        De
        Lady
        Registered On: January 22, 2023
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        Thank you for your comment Lila, and I agree. I am starting at 46 and I just kick myself for not recognising my need to do this sooner.

         

        💖

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    • #711977
      Mona
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      Registered On: December 18, 2018
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      I agree wholeheartedly with what Stephanie and Betty said in their replies, because it’s something I also strongly believe: it is not just about clothes.  Most women who wear men’s clothes are still recognizable as women.  They do not wear boxer shorts underneath nor do they attempt to replace makeup with mustaches or beards.  On the other, most of us crossdressers not only wear women’s outer clothing but also feminine items underneath (panties, bras, lingerie, pantyhose, etc.).  We wear shapewear to create curves and breast forms to create boobs.  You get the point – we are striving for a complete and total feminine transformation, with the holy grail of passing in the eyes of others.

      So no, IMO this is not just about some type of inequality or injustice related to who gets to wear which clothes.  There’s way more going on here for the typical crossdresser compared to a woman walking around in jeans.

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      • #712181
        Betty Rockwell
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        Registered On: March 9, 2022
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        Guuuuurl! I could hear your heels clicking as you strutted away after you dropped the mic! Your answer is fire Queen!

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #711890
      Lisa Leigh
      Lady
      Registered On: April 20, 2022
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      Deedee, you haven’t said or thought or done anything that most of us haven’t said, experienced or done! My wife likes men shirts, they fit her nicely and they do look good on her. She likes the cut and the fabric is a bit warmer in winter for her. She’s a C cup so most shirts work well without being too tight. Unfortunately some of the blouses she has do pull at the breast and do have a peek a boo slot between the buttons. So once I put on a skirt and panties, her reaction was “it hurts my image of you as a man”! Her wearing one of my shirts is cool but not if I choose to wear a skirt. Well I do wear panties daily. I find wearing them, instead of cotton briefs, much more comfortable. I refuse to wear boxers as I like a snug fit and not hanging. She fine with that, I told her why and she agreed. I like a pair of panties that fit well, design and lace are secondary. I guest it was her way of compromising. Winter time I bought tights to work outside as I don’t like or care for long John’s. But when she washes them, they wind up in her underwear drawer. Hair, same problem only she doesn’t like it short, she likes it long, but not to long. I’m reaching for that ponytail look, let’s see if I make it.

      Every SO has a different reaction to what we think is a reasonable request. Some are ok, some hate it. But will they react the way we wish they would? Probably not.

    • #711876
      Nikki Just Nikki
      Lady
      Registered On: September 29, 2022
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      While I understand the impulse to get angry, there’s no profit in it. It took a lot of women a very long time with a lot of personal risk and discomfort to become complete persons in the eyes of the law and society, and there’s still work to do. How is that fair?

      We owe it to ourselves, each other, and the one’s who come after us to find the courage to live our truth out loud and in public. More visibility will eventually lead to more acceptance, but you have to take the long view. Broad social acceptance of gays and lesbians took a very long time, and I never thought I’d live to see same sex marriage in my lifetime, and here we are. We need to keep that faith that we will get there too, but it won’t be by hiding in the closet (no judgment if your individual circumstances keep you there!). </soapbox>

      xo, Nikki

      • #711898
        Betty Rockwell
        Baroness
        Registered On: March 9, 2022
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        Nikki,

        Thank you for pointing out what making a change entails.  Change takes guts and sacrifice unless you want to let someone else do it for you.  Change can’t be made crying alone in the closet.  That doesn’t mean every man that wants to CD should put on their heels and hit the streets but change can’t be accomplished if no one is willing to do the work.

        Hugs,

        Betty

    • #711841
      Stephanie Green
      Lady
      Registered On: November 20, 2022
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      I’m going to play devil’s advocate.  I’ve seen comments like Deedee’s here before.  While I understand the apparent unfairness of women being able to wear whatever they want with no negative reaction from society and men not being able to do the same, I think that an important point has been left out.  When women dress in men’s clothes or get short haircuts, they generally continue to behave like women.  Myself and other crossdressers I know try to act, sound and look like women when we put on our lingerie, dresses, heels and wigs.  Considering that significant difference in behavior, one can see why crossdressing by men is viewed differently than women adding some men’s clothing to their wardrobe.

      • #711869
        Betty Rockwell
        Baroness
        Registered On: March 9, 2022
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        Stephanie,

        Great point and thank you for sharing!  I think it is probably easy to use the generic arguments “women can do whatever they want” or “it’s just clothes” when feeling frustrated.  It’s so much more than clothes and flipping a switch to understand and embrace these changes.  Coming out after a long time raises so many thoughts and feelings that have little to nothing to do with the desire to wear women’s clothing.  Do I know this person?  Did I ever know this person?  What does all this mean and what will the future bring?  It also forces us to take a hard look at ourselves which can be difficult as well.

        Hugs,

        Betty

      • #711842
        De
        Lady
        Registered On: January 22, 2023
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        Thank you Stephanie, I am loving how all this feedback is helping me see things I didn’t before.

        I really appreciate your thoughts 🤗

        💖

    • #711801
      Alison Anderson
      Duchess
      Registered On: October 15, 2018
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      A couple of points. Many years ago there was a commercial for Brut cologne showing a woman who was looking at her husband’s shirts, put on one of his shirts, a hat, and splashing herself with the cologne when the phone rang, and she said “Honey, I was just thinking of you.” I always thought that it would never work in reverse.

      My ex used to tell me she liked man-tailored clothing and wanted to wear such. But (at least at first when she found out) she was very much against my wanting to wear women’s clothing.

      Women wear pants because many wanted to wear pants, and collectively they fought for the right despite being put down by both men and women. The problem is that not enough men want to go the other way to wearing a skirt or dress. Fashion designers have often put an outfit of men in skirts in the fashion shows, but men aren’t interested in buying it.

      There are numerous stories of schools where the boys aren’t allowed to wear shorts but the girls can wear skirts. A protest is organized where the boys are wearing skirts to try to change the administration’s mind.

      People learn from a very early age what is masculine and what is feminine. One time a friend put his daughter’s hair in a pony tail. She was just learning to speak, so I’m guessing she was under 2. I was just growing out my hair, and there was just enough to put into a small pony tail myself. After she was put in a pony tail, I did it too (first time in public). She looked at me, and you can see the wheels turning in her head as she’s trying to find the words to describe it. Finally she tells me,  with great thoughtfulness, “You have girl hair.” She then repeated it and giggled. I’m certainly not the first man to wear his hair in a pony tail, but I’m the first she ever saw, and to her, crossing that gender boundary was funny. She wasn’t trying to humiliate me, it was just funny that I crossed a line that she thought was pretty firm. In fact, for weeks later she would come to me, tell me I have girl hair (whether or not it was in a pony tail) and giggle.

      The problem is that certain things are just associated with being feminine. I can’t just wear a skirt, even if it is a solid color, and I’m not trying to look like a woman, no forms, no wig, just wearing the skirt. If I did, I would certainly get a reaction from people, be it laughter, smiling, or taking out their phones to take pictures and post them online. It’s because of this that I go through the effort to make myself look like a woman, because in a quick glance if I look like a woman then people are less likely to question what I’m wearing.

      And it’s not that we haven’t seen men in skirts or dresses before, either. We just use the excuse of the emperor’s new clothes and tell ourselves it’s something else, so it’s OK. I’m sure you’ve come out of the shower and made a skirt out of your towel, or worn a bathrobe (wrap dress). I was watching the finals of the world cup and saw a Qatar official was wearing a white caftan. The Scottish wear kilts. Scrooge wore a nightshirt. Monks wear “robes” that you could certainly call an ankle length dress, as does the head of a certain religion. Roman chariot drivers wore miniskirts.

      Does it bother me that I can’t wear a skirt or dress and still appear as a man? Yes, sometimes. But I can’t get angry about it. It’s not going to do any good.

      • #711826
        De
        Lady
        Registered On: January 22, 2023
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        You are right, I do oscillate between anger and acceptance but do realise that the best I can do is keep it all in check and manage what is in front of me.

         

        Thank you for the well put together thoughts and perspectives, all of these help rationalise where we are and how to move forwards.

        💖

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    • #711716
      Leah
      Baroness
      Registered On: June 13, 2018
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      I agree with you totally and say that many times over.  Yet we are the ones as you say, need therapy because we want the options to dress as we wish without issues.  But we are long ways from that day coming.

      We are judged and labeled as soon as we put on or express our desire to dress up, like we are some kind of leaper.  Women has not in the past had things easy, this is one area they have taken the ball and ran with and society thinks nothing of it.

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    • #711640
      Emily Alt
      Hostess
      Registered On: August 24, 2019
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      There was a time in the not so distant past where women could not vote, could not drive, and were expected to wear the feminine clothing of the time.  Wearing pants was considered scandalous.

      Of course all that has changed.  But it took generations of effort by countless angry women to make that change.  It serves as an example of what’s possible.

      So what does that mean for us?

      We can be angry and do something about it.  Be the change you want for yourself and the rest of us.  Push the envelope.  Get out of your comfort zone.  Nothing changes if you stay the status quo.

      I’m not saying we need to toss our relationships and burn our bridges.  Although that might be the best option for some of us.

      What I am saying is play the hand you’ve been dealt to win.  Work with what you’ve got for the best possible outcome.  The art of compromise.  Look for the win-win.  Always look for a brighter future.

      /EA

       

      • #711642
        De
        Lady
        Registered On: January 22, 2023
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        Hi Emily, you are right, I think I am acting out of frustration. I have lip gloss, nails, hair removal and stuff that I cannot touch until my wife feels more comfortable.

        I know I must take it slow but I am at the door and I just want to step through 😢

        💖

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    • #711639
      Liara Wolfe
      Duchess
      Registered On: August 14, 2021
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      It is unfair. Unfortunately we have to deal with it.

      Hugs, Liara

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    • #711609
      Michelle Trott
      Duchess
      Registered On: April 7, 2021
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      I married a 105 pound pretty girl. Very long blond hair that dressed and presented in a very feminine way. She wore jeans a lot but was always dressed in a feminine manner. Fast forward a few decades and I was now married to a 180 pound woman who wore almost exclusively jeans and mens sweatshirts. Very short croped hair. No makeup or fancy dresses or tops. No jewelry of feminine clothing. Hair to short to style. No attempt to dress or present in a feminine manner. How came I am the only one who she thinks has changed? I did not dress very often and never that she whitnessed. She presents like a man everyday in almost every way. Thankfully she made a huge difference in my life when she filed for divorce.

      • #711612
        De
        Lady
        Registered On: January 22, 2023
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        Oh wow, I am sorry yet happy for you, maybe it is a good thing as she might have been jealous of how good you look 🥰

         

        You touch on a concern of mine, I am a little lighter than my wife and, whilst I am not sure yet might fit into certain dresses a little better. I worry that her acceptance might falter if I fit into styles better than she does 🙈

         

        💖

    • #711588
      J J
      Lady
      Registered On: September 13, 2019
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      When you accept the fact that life is not always fair, you will get less angry. Sure there are many things in life that aren’t fair, but we just have to deal with it, and work towards it being a little fairer in the future.

      I came across an old film from the 20-30s for a scenic site in Colorado. The woman was dressed in boots, judphers, and a shirt and tie…a very masculine outfit. It was perfectly acceptable. If a man were in a dress, wig, et cetera it would have been scandalous. These days, while not totally acceptable, seeing a man in a dress is not scandalous, so we have made some strides. Times change, too slowly at times, but they do change. Carefully point out when your wife wears “mens things” and just maybe she will understand. Mine does.

    • #711578
      Jess
      Lady
      Registered On: January 13, 2023
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      This sounds just like the same argument I’ve had with myself just the other day. Like you said, women can wear men’s clothing and be called tomboys, but the moment men wear women’s clothes, we are wrong. I was quite upset about it and still am a bit to be honest, I want to just give in and wear whatever I want, but thinking about what my wife feels keeps me from going all out. It seems to be the same for her as such as my wife grew up not in an environment that catered to that lifestyle.

      For her, and she keeps telling me, and unfortunately I realize recently my baby steps were still too big of steps, she wanted to marry and be with a man. She’s not at all interested with being with a woman and it’s upsetting her. I thought her allowing me to wear some things was a good thing, but I started going a bit too far too fast. I know this answer is going to come up a thousand times over, but really take a moment and think about how she feels. She might be feeling she’s losing her husband she loves. She might be contemplating what she needs to do next, as such how she feels about this sudden change. As we get older, science shows our minds are very grounded in our thoughts at a certain age. I wish I knew I wanted to dress up years ago to allow my wife some time to adjust, but her frustration and shock was to be expected when she caught her husband wearing a bra he was trying to hide.

      I get wanting an answer right away, but this is basically the 5 steps of grieving. You’re angry and trying to bargain for some grounds. Take some time to think and let her think slowly til you both hopefully find a compromise and get to acceptance. I’m still getting there right now myself. I want to give in, but I could see the hurt she was trying to hide last night and realized I was just ignoring her without knowing I was.

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      • #711605
        De
        Lady
        Registered On: January 22, 2023
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        Thank you Jess, your situation is so similar to my own.

         

        I brought this up with my wife before jumping in so that she never felt like I was hiding anything.

         

        Now I just want to get going but I can’t because I don’t want to freak her out and give her time to rationalise all of this.

         

        I do know if I give her time I could get everything I have ever wanted but omw, there is a pair of shoes with my name on it and I just cannot wait 😅

        💖

         

        • This reply was modified 1 week ago by De.
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        • #711616
          Jess
          Lady
          Registered On: January 13, 2023
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          Trust me I get it when wanting to buy clothes. I’ve bought some for myself already, but I know my wife is far from ready. I see these cute dresses and shirts I want to show off, but besides funds, I need to make sure she is comfortable first and foremost. I have to remember the reason I married her to begin with years back was to make sure she came first and to support her. I get wanting to explore it, but we need to take it slowly.

          5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #711567
      Angela Booth
      Lady
      Registered On: August 1, 2020
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      I wonder if your wife dressed as she does when you met her or whether she gradually started to wear what she does and shorten her hair over a period of time? If not would you have started a relationship with her looking that way? Had she had seen you in a dress and wig when you met would she have continued a relationship? I perceive that this is where she is now hence the processing.

      Alas it is quite normal for women to wear mens clothes or styles and have short hair. Unfortunately it isn’t the case for men to do the opposite as frustrating as it is. I understand your angst but you have to understand the status quo and work with your wife to find her acceptance in a rational way.

      7 users thanked author for this post.
      • #711607
        De
        Lady
        Registered On: January 22, 2023
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        Hi Angie,

        You are so right, I could get that used to it over time and she has not had that luxury.

        Thank you for giving me more perspective 🤗, thanks s will help me be more tolerant and give her the time she needs.

         

        💖

    • #711533
      Jill Lacey
      Lady
      Registered On: December 25, 2022
      Topics: 3
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      Men, according to men, who according to men, are supposed to be the dominant gender , according to men of course. This means that men must always show how more supreme they are compared to women, the subservient low life that they are. So provided men show their power and strength, than social order is maintained as men therefore are not threatened by those, other, lesser people. Now if men were to act in a feminine way, well, holy canole Batman, we have problems in Gotham City! We must stop this, now before our power as men becomes diminished somehow. Why would anyone want to lessen themselves to the level of a women.
      And so it goes, hundreds of years later we are closer to accepting women as equals and of no threat, but we still have a long ways to go. True equality is still a few generations away. May people like him come to learn and accept, women are just as powerful as men, and if anyone decides to cross over to enjoy the view, all the better.

      • This reply was modified 1 week ago by MacKenzie Alexandra. Reason: Removed political references (violation of site policy)
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    • #711526
      Roberta Broussard
      Baroness
      Registered On: July 20, 2020
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      I don’t believe that life was ever completely fair between men and women. What’s good for one does not guarantee its good for the other. I suppose women have just been spoiled to the point that many just don’t even consider playing by the same rules. Many just don’t have too.

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