- more then 7
- July 13, 2021 at 9:01 pm #517336
- August 24, 2021 at 8:13 am #534870Leslies Ann Gray GirlLadyRegistered On: September 22, 2017Topics: 1Replies: 157Has thanked: 362 timesBeen thanked: 621 times
Hi Ladies , i voted 7 or more . To say there are only 2 , male , female is like turning your back on people like us . Its like saying we don’t exist , that scientifically our existence is just a fetish , something we can just step away from at any time . We know we cannot , its impossible , we’ve all tried and always return to being who we really are , don’t we ? People only see the our physical part , they don’t see what goes on inside our minds , how we really feel , its invisible except to those we tell and try to explain it to . I’ve tried to explain this to a cis gender man and i think it confused him more , i mean i really am not sure myself how i ended up Leslie Anne , but i do know my gender is trans female now, it took a while but i finally quit fighting it and am now at ease . Please ladies don’t try to or feel you have to explain to everyone , just enjoy being that special person , i hope someone loves you . XOXO , Leslie
- August 24, 2021 at 6:58 am #534852
- August 24, 2021 at 6:15 am #534848JillianWDuchessRegistered On: October 13, 2019Topics: 6Replies: 253Has thanked: 736 timesBeen thanked: 995 times
I am not a scientist and I do not play one on TV. So all the words that follow are opinion, my opinion. Now I try to be intelligent and informed when I form opinions and I try to stay open to new science on any subject.
There are 2 biological sexes, male and female. If you consider gender to be the traits or characteristics or behaviors or attributes of biological sex, well, a sliding scale. Probably a social construct.
We are a duality of male and female, yin/yang, black/white, good/evil a
little bit boy, a little bit girl, a little bit country, a little bit rock & roll. Where we are on that graph changes over time, even day to day.
There’s a gender quiz that pops up here from time to time, when I took that quiz the results were that I was 83% female, 31% male.
That’s how I prefer to look at this, we are both genders at the same time.
Having said all this, I hope that you’ve read this far, I am a big believer of and an advocate for the idea of “what’s it to me?” We should all be allowed to live our lives the way we want to. If Caitlin Jenner wants to live as a woman, go for it. If Elliot Page wants to live life as a man, be my guest. (Although I can not for the life of me see why anyone would choose to be a man.)
I’m dysphoric, if dressing as Jillian eases the discomfort of my dysphoria, leave me be. What’s it to YOU? (There are, however, people in my life that are affected, so they must be considered).
So, in my not so humble opinion, there are not a myriad of genders but there are infinite points along the line between male and female.
Just my opinions
- August 24, 2021 at 5:36 am #534825Sarah KanterLadyRegistered On: April 25, 2019Topics: 6Replies: 43Has thanked: 113 timesBeen thanked: 291 times
So, i teach sociology at a university and this is a discussion I have with students about once a year. I could probably right a book on it but the start of my answer is, “it depends on what you mean by gender.”
I think that despite all the contraversy over this, most people could find some common ground if they ever took the time to be sure they were actually talking about the same thing.
- August 24, 2021 at 2:50 pm #535025DonnaLadyRegistered On: January 17, 2021Topics: 127Replies: 2446Has thanked: 15474 timesBeen thanked: 8454 times
Suppose the real question was should have said how many sexes there are. Which is only 3. As for genders many. Oh in November will not have anything between the legs will have a vagina. So I will be called a woman.
- This reply was modified 3 weeks ago by Donna.
- August 24, 2021 at 9:12 am #534897Bettylou CoxDuchessRegistered On: May 26, 2019Topics: 23Replies: 2473Has thanked: 5184 timesBeen thanked: 9365 times
Well said, Sarah. It is that distinction between sex and gender which causes the arguments. Sex is what’s between your legs, and there are three possibilities: male, female and intersex. Gender is what’s between your ears, and since that’s subjective, there is no definitive answer.I can, and do disagree with many of the answers, I can’t say that any of them are wrong. I’m a girl; you may define me as you wish.
- August 1, 2021 at 7:22 am #525779LisaTLadyRegistered On: January 31, 2021Topics: 92Replies: 1177Has thanked: 1162 timesBeen thanked: 5789 times
Since gender is a looser term than simple biological sex and includes social constructs and behaviours and may vary with time it would seem t me that there are infinite possibilities when describing those aspects of personality that make up gender. Therefore there is an infinite possible variation in gender which means it probably cannot be accurately defined.
- August 1, 2021 at 10:55 am #525811LadyRegistered On: January 17, 2021Topics: 127Replies: 2446Has thanked: 15474 timesBeen thanked: 8454 times
So think should leave the person sex off a birth cert. Or think should be marked
- August 2, 2021 at 12:03 am #526040LisaTLadyRegistered On: January 31, 2021Topics: 92Replies: 1177Has thanked: 1162 timesBeen thanked: 5789 times
- August 2, 2021 at 7:34 am #526123LadyRegistered On: January 17, 2021Topics: 127Replies: 2446Has thanked: 15474 timesBeen thanked: 8454 times
Of course matters when it comes to medical difference in the body of male or female and yes many genders as for sex only 3 possible m f and intersex on rare events.
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- July 31, 2021 at 6:38 pm #525655ChloeCDuchessRegistered On: November 5, 2019Topics: 11Replies: 382Has thanked: 1037 timesBeen thanked: 1682 times
So, I doubt that this is the absolute latest, but looking up LGBTQIA+ (which of course is beyond M and F) , at least one of the ‘definitions’ I’ve seen, tends to mix both gender and sex, and some of those terms have more than 1 meaning/word associated with them.
The real question is, is there an all inclusive definition for gender or sex, that everyone can agree on, and can be used to continue discussions. There was, once, back in the 1800’s when certain definitions were introduced specifically defining only M and F which then demonized behaviors that didn’t conform – with the supposedly altruistic goal of protecting women. We’re still feeling the long term mostly negative effects of that.
So, I personally don’t believe there is, which only contributes to misunderstandings, disagreements, and sometimes violence.
If we can’t come to a common definition of something, any further discussion with the idea of having a meeting of the minds or moving forward is often fruitless.
- July 31, 2021 at 6:13 pm #525651Jennifer SwansonDuchessRegistered On: April 20, 2019Topics: 58Replies: 221Has thanked: 4717 timesBeen thanked: 1615 times
Here’s the breakdown from my earlier post.
It means you may be genetically male or female, hormonally male/female/non-binary, with cells that may or may not hear the male/female/non-binary call, and all this leading to a body that can be male/non-binary/female.
- July 31, 2021 at 6:46 pm #525662
- July 31, 2021 at 7:21 am #525365Jamie WilliamsLadyRegistered On: July 26, 2021Topics: 8Replies: 70Has thanked: 173 timesBeen thanked: 449 times
Without saying how I voted, I just wanted to say two things.
First, this can be a very divisive, volatile subject. So it takes courage to even bring it up.
Second, based on the responses I’ve read, the CDH community seems to be mature enough discuss it without arguing or name-calling. And that, ladies, is something that is sadly missing in the real world around us.
So thank you all for your voices.
- July 31, 2021 at 6:19 am #525350Stevie SteinerAmbassadorRegistered On: June 11, 2020Topics: 57Replies: 1566Has thanked: 6622 timesBeen thanked: 7898 times
My very first experience with gender was at a young age when I learned language. German has 3 genders that way – male, female, and neutral/neuter(?) ( Der, Die, Das ). Even before I really knew what gender was all about, I realized there were more than two. Didn’t understand it back then, but glad I was exposed to the concept of more than two genders.
Sad thing is I think the more specific we (rightly) try to become with the labels we create, the more we get lost in all the jargon.
- July 31, 2021 at 1:15 am #525289Laura LovettLadyRegistered On: March 26, 2020Topics: 29Replies: 1362Has thanked: 4233 timesBeen thanked: 6468 times
Most science on the subject shows that there are essentially 2 biological sexes – and this is important – biological sex is not the same as gender.
Biological sex is chromosomes (and this bit is fiddly and messy, like all chemistry, because it’s not actually as simple as XX and XY. I read an interesting article that demonstrates how the Y chromosome is on the decline – males are becoming more feminine! I’ll dig out the link).
Biological sex is also to do with the reproductive bits – and these can be confused at birth – some individuals are born with both, or bits of both – biological sex isn’t even as simple as male/female.
The whole idea of binary comes from social purity movements, which began in the early 1800s, and led to the criminalisation of homosexuality, eugenics and all sorts of unpleasant things, despite its noble intentions of quelling male violence against women, and agendas of equality for all.
Gender is a construction that we put on top of biological sex.
Boys like blue, girls like pink, boys play football, girls like to embroider – it’s behaviours and attributes.
To be fair, I hated football as a boy – too rough. My daughter isn’t very good at embroidery, but is a very keen rower, who has qualified for Henley Royal Regatta next weekend. My 4 year old son loves dressing up as Snow White, or fairies.
Hence gender is a spectrum, as varied as our fingerprints.
The WHO describes it pretty well:
- August 24, 2021 at 5:27 am #534824JillianWDuchessRegistered On: October 13, 2019Topics: 6Replies: 253Has thanked: 736 timesBeen thanked: 995 times
Laura, when you find the link about the declining “Y” chromosome would you please send it to me.
I am very interested in the science of gender dysphoria. There really isn’t much that isn’t tinged by the political climate.
- July 31, 2021 at 5:26 am #525331LadyRegistered On: January 17, 2021Topics: 127Replies: 2446Has thanked: 15474 timesBeen thanked: 8454 times
HI Laura that was the key take away for the question by science which is 2 actually look it up more there 3 tech.
- July 31, 2021 at 6:11 am #525346Laura LovettLadyRegistered On: March 26, 2020Topics: 29Replies: 1362Has thanked: 4233 timesBeen thanked: 6468 times
Sorry, Donna honey – I don’t understand your reply!
Gender is how society sees you, so is not really scientific – it’s in the realm of social science, but that’s rather looser than the traditional sciences of physics, chemistry, biology, etc.
Genetic sex is what you are, and there’s demonstrably a choice of 2, with occasional deviations.
Gender has more to do with who you are, how you were brought up, and how you feel. Nature vs nurture.
Therefore, since people can’t be pigeon-holed as far as their feelings go, gender is best seen as a spectrum in my opinion.
- July 31, 2021 at 7:06 am #525361LadyRegistered On: January 17, 2021Topics: 127Replies: 2446Has thanked: 15474 timesBeen thanked: 8454 times
What meant is as for biological according many there is 2 but also another one third one also. intersex. As for genders possiblity endless.
- July 31, 2021 at 2:40 pm #525558
- July 31, 2021 at 3:04 pm #525565
- July 17, 2021 at 1:37 pm #519006
- July 15, 2021 at 4:14 pm #518085Elise MichelleDuchessRegistered On: January 3, 2018Topics: 23Replies: 326Has thanked: 404 timesBeen thanked: 1168 times
So in order to answer this, I think we first need to distinguish between “biological sex” and “gender”. Biologically, there are generally two distinct sexes: male and female (I’m aware of intersexed, Turner’s syndrome, etc, but those cases are statistically insignificant. The vast majority of the population is distinctly biologically male or female).
Gender, on the other hand, typically refers to the societal “norms” assigned to a particular sex within a particular society. Those “norms” differ from society to society and change from time to time. So, in modern day America it is considered “crossdressing” for me to wear a wig and a skirt, because those are “norms” we presently assign to women. However, in colonial America (and England at the time) wearing a wig was a sign of wealth and power reserved for men only. And in Scotland, wearing a kilt is a proud symbol of a man’s heritage. (I dare you to call Sir William Wallace a girl). So, the whole idea of gender is really quite artificial and arbitrary.
That said, I answered more than 10 because I believe that gender is a spectrum with a society’s “male norms” at one end, their “female norms” at the other, and an infinite number of points in between. There has always been a great degree of variation among individuals along that spectrum (such as “tomboys” or “crossdressers”). That is probably the most important distinction between gender and sex; and the conflation of the two is what leads to so much confusion and controversy.
At least, that’s how I see it.
- July 31, 2021 at 1:26 am #525290LadyRegistered On: March 26, 2020Topics: 29Replies: 1362Has thanked: 4233 timesBeen thanked: 6468 times
Yes, this is exactly how I and the WHO see the difference – very well put!
Biological sex is the platform.
Gender is the set of attributes that describe the platform.
Every time someone says “Men are better than women at doing X”, there is an exception.
For example: “Men are stronger than women, physically.”
As a general rule, that is correct – but there are many women who are a lot stronger than I am, many competing in the Olympics, so it’s a generalisation, not something applicable to all.
Very much like the generalisation that women wear dresses.
Obviously, not every woman wears a dress.
There are still a very few cultures left, out of the many that existed before missionaries told them to cover up, who wander around without clothing.
Clothing is not a way to define biological sex – or even gender.
Certain clothes have become associated with or even (spookily!) assigned to the genders to differentiate between them, because of the precise problem that biological sex presents.
Some men look and behave in a feminine way, and vice versa.
Clothing became a way to regulate gender – a variable uniform.
Women recognise the tyranny of gender assigned clothing – it’s not fair for them to be forced to wear skirts, or those high-cut bikini pants in Volleyball.
There’s a very recent case of that in the Olympics – I believe the Norwegian team refused to wear those pants, which are super-revealing (and let the sand in!), and turned up in shorts, only to receive a fine for doing so!
- July 15, 2021 at 5:12 pm #518101
- July 15, 2021 at 2:44 am #517838AnonymousTopics: 0Replies: 0Has thanked: 0 timesBeen thanked: 0 times
I also didn’t vote. When I think about it, I can’t come up with an answer.
- July 14, 2021 at 11:21 pm #517800Dawn WyvernManaging AmbassadorRegistered On: February 23, 2019Topics: 23Replies: 367Has thanked: 288 timesBeen thanked: 1479 times
the question may be confused with self identification where we chose a label as to what we see as our gender identification.
In a 2016 survey for a British education authority by the Children’s Commissioner, students were given 26 choices of gender identification and had a box for other as well – the results were very spread over the choices and there were several ‘others’ as well.
- Boy, Girl, Tomboy, Female, Male, Young Woman, Young Man, Trans-Girl, Trans-Boy, Gender Fluid, Agender, Androgynous, Bi-Gender, Non-Binary, Demi-Boy, Demi-Girl, Gender-queer, Gender Nonconforming, Tri-Gender, all Gender, In the middle of boy and girl, Intersex, Not sure, Rather not say, – and ‘Other’
The bottom line for me is that we are all unique and individuals, and should not to get hung up on labels and boxes but just be comfortable with who you are.
- July 14, 2021 at 9:09 pm #517772Pumped ForheelsLadyRegistered On: November 22, 2020Topics: 2Replies: 88Has thanked: 2 timesBeen thanked: 321 times
I went with two.
I am a bit “old school”. Now I believe there may be variations in our chromosomes that mix it up a bit, or perhaps some mental thing we might have going on, but if you have male parts, you are male, female parts you are female. But, like I said, there is some DNA or mental conditions that confuse things that I certainly can not explain.
And before anyone gets all crazy with me, I believe I have something crossed up in my DNA or my mind. I fully identify as a male, but sure love to CD and never have liked the typical male pastimes. In my youth I spent more time with girls than boys and enjoyed the company of girls more than the typical rough and tumble boys.
I feel I am male, with a bit something else going on.
- August 24, 2021 at 4:25 am #534818Connie TwirlLadyRegistered On: August 18, 2021Topics: 6Replies: 96Has thanked: 161 timesBeen thanked: 352 times
That’s me too. I’m a hetero bloke, but I love looking like a girl. I prefer female company, hate team sports, didn’t “fit in” with my peers, hate laddish behaviour etc etc. I was raised by women, with a mostly absentee father (he worked abroad) and my step-mother didn’t like me very much. Did any of this lead to my CD? No idea what gender I am – I just lurk behind the “+” on the end of LBGTQ.
Sorry, didn’t mean to hijack this thread. I’ll start a new post if anyone wants to discuss.
- July 14, 2021 at 7:13 pm #517734LadyRegistered On: January 17, 2021Topics: 127Replies: 2446Has thanked: 15474 timesBeen thanked: 8454 times
if only counting sex of a person only 3 as for others way more then count
- July 14, 2021 at 6:01 pm #517712OliviaLadyRegistered On: July 14, 2021Topics: 0Replies: 1Has thanked: 0 timesBeen thanked: 2 times
There are more than you can couny. I can’t even list them all, but some of them are cis, transgender, non binary, Bigender, Dual gender, gender fluid, gender queer, demigirl, demiboy ect. there are as many genders as there are people on the planet, and they all ar a wonderful spectrum.
- July 14, 2021 at 10:02 am #517510Araminta PurdyDuchessRegistered On: January 23, 2020Topics: 6Replies: 377Has thanked: 671 timesBeen thanked: 1353 times
Depends on what language you are using. English and most Romance languages have three. Russian, I believe, has two; animate and inanimate. I have heard that some Native American languages have five.
- July 14, 2021 at 4:25 am #517403Birel GalanodelLadyRegistered On: May 3, 2020Topics: 19Replies: 288Has thanked: 751 timesBeen thanked: 1408 times
I’m not sure this is a question capable of being answered… nor that I even want to see an answer. Native Americans had Two Spirit people, and many other cultures historically had more than two genders. I’m ok with however anyone wants to identify or present. We don’t have to fit into nice neat boxes, even though society likes to put us in them.
- July 14, 2021 at 3:37 am #517395stephanie plumbBaroness - AnnualRegistered On: November 17, 2018Topics: 176Replies: 2412Has thanked: 3813 timesBeen thanked: 11508 times
Not an easy one because you haven’t defined what you mean by “gender.” Strictly speaking gender applies to male and female in which case there are 2. Stick the word “identity” onto “gender” however and you have a different ball game!
Gloria Swanson explains that biological sex/ biological gender is not straightforward, because there are variations caused by all sorts of complications. True, but only for a small minority. But at the end of the day biological sex is usually determined by clinicians as to whether or not you have a “Y” chromosome. Variations still get labelled as X or Y but also get a “syndrome” description tacked on, and are regarded as outside the norm.
I have gone simplistic because you used the word “scientifically” so I have answered 1-2 based purely on your implication that you mean biological sex – male and female.
(Gender identity gets complicates because some people choose a gender based on lifestyle choice, or choose a gender-label based on no biological evidence or reason. I believe there is a biological explanation but it hasn’t been pinned down yet. Some neuroscientists believe that some structures within the feminised brain (i.e. not fully masculinised by the SRY gene, for a variety of reasons) are responsible for gender identity. These structures in Trans people are typically more female-like than male. But its early days. Makes sense to me, knowing how I feel about my own gender identity and its probable cause.)
Perhaps there are an infinite number of possible “genders” and therefore the term is meaningless and shouldn’t be used at all. We are are just humans. But that can’t be logically true because the X and Y chromosomes broadly label us as being reproductive organisms, each with a different function. So we are back to 2.
Just my opinion.
Unqualified, self-taught, pseudo-neuroscientist Steph.
- July 14, 2021 at 12:23 am #517375Grace ScarlettBaroness - AnnualRegistered On: February 16, 2021Topics: 120Replies: 2824Has thanked: 10449 timesBeen thanked: 16016 times
- July 14, 2021 at 6:59 am #517451LadyRegistered On: January 17, 2021Topics: 127Replies: 2446Has thanked: 15474 timesBeen thanked: 8454 times
Hi Grace you right be who want to be as for gender just a label what the world put on us all.
Once I transition to a Woman want the world to label me as female no trans or whoever. Suppose only way knowing is checking my chroms. hehe.
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- July 13, 2021 at 10:38 pm #517360Jennifer SwansonDuchessRegistered On: April 20, 2019Topics: 58Replies: 221Has thanked: 4717 timesBeen thanked: 1615 times
Sorry for the length but this gets a pretty complete biological answer to gender.
from Twitter @RebeccaRHelm
Friendly neighborhood biologist here. I see a lot of people are talking about biological sexes and gender right now. Lots of folks make biological sex seem really simple. Well, since it’s so simple, let’s find the biological roots shall we? Let’s talk about sex.
If you know biology you will probably say that biological sex is caused by chromosomes, XX for female, XY for male. This is chromosomal sex, but is it biological sex? Turns out there is only one gene on the Y chromosome that really matters to sex. Its called the SRY gene. During human embryonic development the SRY protein turns on male associated genes. Having an SRY gene makes you “genetically male”. But is this biological sex”?
Sometimes that SRY gene pops off the Y chromosome and over to an X chromosome. Surprise! So now you’ve got an X with an SRY and a Y without an SRY. What does this mean? A Y with no SRY means physically you’re female, chromosomally you’re male (XY) and genetically you’re female (no SRY). An X with an SRY means you’re physically male, chromosomally female (XX) and genetically male (SRY). But biological sex is simple!
Sex related genes ultimately turn on hormones in specific areas on the body, and reception of those hormones by cells throughout the body. Is this the root of “biological sex”? “Hormonal male” means you produce normal levels of male associated hormones. Except some percentage of females will have higher levels ‘male’ hormones than some percentage of males. Ditto ditto ‘female hormones’.
If you’re developing, your body may not produce enough hormones for your genetic sex. Leading you to be genetically male or female, chromosomally male or female, hormonally non-binary, and physically non-binary. Well, except cells have something to say about this …
Maybe cells are the answer to biological sex? Cells have the receptors that ”hear” the signal from sex hormones. But sometimes those receptors don’t work. Like a mobile phone that’s do not disturb. Call and cell they will not answer.
What does all this mean?
It means you may be genetically male or female, hormonally male/female/non-binary, with cells that may or may not hear the male/female/non-binary call, and all this leading to a body that can be male/non-binary/female. Try out some combinations for your self Notice how confusing it gets? Can you point to what the absolute cause of biological sex is? Is it fair to judge people by it?
Of course, you could try appealing to the numbers. “Most people are either male of female” you say. Except that as a biology professor I will tell you biological sex is complicated. Before you discriminate against someone on the basis of biological sex & identity ask yourself: have you seen your chromosomes? Do you know the genes of people you love? The hormones of the people you work with? The state of their cells?
Since the answer will obviously be no, please be kind, respect people’s right to tell you who they are, and remember that you don’t have all answers. Again: biology is complicated. Kindness and respect don’t have to be.
- August 24, 2021 at 10:43 am #534939LadyRegistered On: August 18, 2021Topics: 6Replies: 96Has thanked: 161 timesBeen thanked: 352 times
Are we talking Klinefelters here? If so, I’d be interested to find out if there’s any evidence that people with KS are more likely to be CD or TG. Google isn’t helping!
- July 13, 2021 at 10:25 pm #517357Sa•man•thaManaging AmbassadorRegistered On: January 21, 2018Topics: 533Replies: 1837Has thanked: 8431 timesBeen thanked: 7525 times
- July 14, 2021 at 3:49 pm #517655
- July 13, 2021 at 9:59 pm #517351Emily AltDuchess - AnnualRegistered On: August 24, 2019Topics: 12Replies: 596Has thanked: 473 timesBeen thanked: 2757 times
I didn’t vote.
I’m doubtful there’s a definitive answer here. What was considered “fact” 20 years ago is no longer true. There’s plenty of anecdotal evidence to support the assumption the answer is highly subjective.
My reality today differs radically from my past, and will differ radically in the future. All I know is I’m going in the right direction. I could care less how I’m “classified” by scientists.
- July 13, 2021 at 9:36 pm #517345Trisha Lilly HibbertBaronessRegistered On: December 8, 2020Topics: 46Replies: 787Has thanked: 3499 timesBeen thanked: 3068 times
Hi Donna, I selected more than 7. I once heard there are more than 27 different genders. I’m friends with another gal from the site. We’re both 24/7 trans gals not on hormones yet. She discribes herself as gender fluid, I say I’m transgender. If two people so similar used different phases i hate to think how many other phrases and genders people use.
- July 13, 2021 at 9:35 pm #517344
- July 13, 2021 at 9:18 pm #517339Jennifer SwansonDuchessRegistered On: April 20, 2019Topics: 58Replies: 221Has thanked: 4717 timesBeen thanked: 1615 times
- July 13, 2021 at 10:06 pm #517352
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