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Hi Kelly ,
I can say it exists in my marriage , especially now with the evolution of my gender fluidity & crossdressing . We’ve always strived to be aware of the others perspective , we’ve been together 17 years now , married 3yrs. Somedays better than others but on the whole reasonably fair .
We’re both big personalities but from different directions….. fortunately 😜. Tiff
I assume this mostly relates to cross dressing in a married relationship or similar?
In which case, yes, the support should be mutual (and I mean mutual), but society and nurture puts odd pressure on people where conformity to unwritten rules are concerned.
Understanding that, and taking small steps to ensure a balance between the needs of others and your own is a key factor.
It should be for everyone, but cross dressing is one of a few special cases where it can be your own mental health vs a feeling of deep discomfort due mainly to unfamiliarity – as far as I see it.
Maybe I’m being a bit one sided, but from what I read about gender dysphoria, cross dressing is considered to come under that umbrella term, if it’s deep rooted enough, and comes from a lack of identity with your physical gender.
It’s complex, and worth reading up on before seeing an anti cross dressing viewpoint as blind prejudice (which I can’t help but see – maybe I’m blinded to my own perceptions?).
I’m short, a marriage works on compromise, but at the same time, as the Vicar of my parish was so fond of saying at weddings (I must’ve gone to over a thousand as a choirboy!), love means giving the other person room to be themselves.
Love Laura
Hi Kelly,
I assume your referring to crossdressing in a marriage.
My wife is not very supportive of my crossdressing.
we are getting along however with some boundaries.
She was supportive at first even buying me shoes and helping me get cloths.
However when I started acting feminine it really turned her off.
Also I had panties on one time when we became intimate and that did not go over well.
She is Ok with me dressing in front of her now but we definitely separate my dressing from our intimacy.
I also try not to act feminine I front of her
In my wifes defense one of the reasons she married me for was for my masculine side.
She married a man not a women
I understand this and respect her view.
she has been very good to me and I love her very much.
A friend of mine feels I should do what I want or quit all together.
I shouldn’t have boundaries.
However As you said a relationship has give and take and I respect her view also.
Most relationships have some sort of boundaries
I think we are at a good middle ground I can live with.
I understand some will not agree.
The younger generations are more open minded also.
patty
Hi Patty,
My wife gives me that line too, about having married a man, not a woman.
I find that a difficult one to take – after all, the man is still here, and it is still me.
I didn’t become a woman, and I didn’t become a cross dresser after we married.
It was society I was hiding from, and justifiably in the 1970s – not her specifically.
I am not a woman, I’m a man who wants to dress like one. If she can wear jeans and t-shirts, I can wear dresses, no harm done.
But still women cling to that line…
I’m not saying don’t accept it, it’s just that I see it as incredibly one-sided, and a stand-off position.
Not being able to dress in my chosen way has resulted in all manner of behaviours that are essentially toxic.
I only fully realise that after being able to unleash my inner femme (or whatever! I mean, dress my own way and just go about like that) I see the failings of artificial entrapment, and appreciate the deep joy and relief from depression that self expression can bring.
I have been through decades of trying to reject or come to terms with my cross dressing, so I do understand the feelings of those who just don’t get it. I was one of those once.
It is, of course, somewhat frustrating that my wife refuses to get up to speed – or acknowledge that she ever will.
For now, the occasional release is hugely beneficial to me, and the absence of the fear of getting caught is like the lifting of the world from your shoulders.
What I’m really questioning is how much is compromise, and how much is imprisonment?
Love Laura
I think we all can agree that we seek, date and marry someone that we are attracted too. I cannot image doing those things with someone that I was not attracted to. I wore jeans and tee shirts when we met. He was not shaved and wearing lipstick, garters etc. I hear all the time that CD does not change the person. I can not speak for all, however I can speak on our relationship. Yes it does. We seek someone we are attracted to and compatible with, similar likes and dislikes. Although looks are not the only attraction to a partner, it is Important and I would not believe a person who says it does not matter at all for one minute. And it’s not just their appearance, it is the attitude, the personality and the mannerisms and such that I love so much that has changed also. To say a person does not change once they CD is a crock in my opinion. His own words “the new me”…..if that does stand for change what does?
I asked my spouse what would he say was his main attractions to me and why he loved me. Once he gave me the list of those things and I stated in the same manner of his changes, if I changed those aspects of me would he still be attracted to me and would he enjoy that. The answer was immediately NO! Wait a minute. I am expected to do that which he admits he would have no part of if the shoe was on the other foot so to speak. So give credit where credit is due…my love is still strong for my spouse but to say that the attraction and same feelings are exactly the same would be a lie on my part.
We all have valid views. I think it depends on which side you are facing as to what that view is. That was one of my main reasons for joining was to see all sides. Imprisonment? Really? He is free to be whomever he chooses and also free to walk away from all he has at any point…..however he is not free to ask me to give up my happiness over his. All relationships are about compromising and if there is only one who matters then the relationship cannot survive.I’m sorry to hear that your partner has changed for the worse with cross dressing.
Of course, we all change as we age, without exception.
We marry for better or worse. That’s a promise.
How someone chooses to dress shouldn’t be up for discussion, otherwise you are imposing your values. Yours. It becomes about you and what you want.
If I became a fireman, I wouldn’t expect what I wear to be an issue, like, Oh, you didn’t wear a fireman outfit before we married.
If you decide you want to cut your hair, should your husband say Oh! I married a girl with long hair! It’s all over!!!
No.
If your relationship is floundering for other reasons, you need to work on those.
If aspects of cross dressing are impacting your life, such as extended times out, over extending the budget, or hanging out in entirely inappropriate clothing around schools, then action should be taken.
Otherwise, it’s a harmless hobby, and may be related to gender dysphoria.
Do some tests, find out.
Gender dysphoria doesn’t mean a sex change, it means he’s never been 100% male and because chemistry and biology are messy, no-one is.
We’re all different and yes, some compromise is necessary, but not to the detriment of mental health.
Seriously.
Love Laura
Laura,
I think there maybe a misunderstanding of the issues we are experiencing. This is not about clothes or who wears what. I took my spouse out for a public outing yesterday. We went shopping of where I purchased two pair of shoes, panties and lingerie and various other items of clothing for my spouse and helped pick out varies makeup tools. I am the one that did the makeup and also loaned my spouse leggings of my own to wear for this outing. After the afternoon of shopping we went and had dinner and sat at a club for a while. So I am not the person that I think you may be assuming that I am.
I also have a photo shoot scheduled for my spouse for tomorrow evening to take some pictures as I know he desires. These things were my suggestion and seems to be a very nice surprise for him that he was and is excited about.
I am not a closed minded cold hearted prud of a wife, I am not jealous nor do I harbor any under lying agenda for his happiness. I have stated in many posts of my love for him and I support him.
You stated it’s a hobby…not sure if I agree however we will roll with that for the purpose of this conversation. I too have hobbies. They do not however come before my spouse, I do not let them cause stress to my spouse, I am not obsessed with them. I do not let them stand in the way of my Responsibilities in life.
I do not feel than anything that becomes an obsession in ones life is ever good for anyone’s mental health.
Therefore, I stand by my original post of the me/I syndrome .Kelly,
Good lord!! How lucky is your spouse to have a wonderful and understanding woman like you are. Holy cow!! The things you do for him is incredible. He should be bending over backward to try to please you, his wife!! My gosh!! What you do is incredible. He should be kissing the ground you walk on! you’ve gone out of your way to buy him some feminine clothing, loaned him your leggings and more. What a trooper!! I think you are amazing and as understanding as any woman could be in this situation.
The more of your posts I read, the more confused I am about what is going on here. Marriage is a give and take thing, as many have already mentioned. It is. For sure. No doubt about it. So, may I ask … Where is the disconnect? What does he do to make you fulfilled and make you happy, much less, go out of his way to TRY to make you happy.
From what I can tell, this turbulence is not about you putting your foot down and you telling him no, no, no. You can’t dress and you can’t this or that. It’s quite the opposite. You sound VERY supportive and nurturing. Why is he not eating out of your hand because of this sort of treatment???? Do you know how many CD’ers would lie down on the railroad tracks in order to have a partner like you? Well, maybe that’s a bit extreme with the railroad tracks. ha. Well, how about this? Give their right arm….figuratively, of course. 🙂
Kelly,
I believe you have touched on the subject of the “up front bargain” that we all go through when selecting a partner. This may be the crux of the issue that most have in these situations and scenarios, perhaps. You mentioned that during the courting phase of your relationship, he “presented” as a man, his body was not shaved and did not wear lipstick and all the rest of it. By the same token, YOU presented a certain way as well and you both started getting closer and the next thing you know, you’re getting married and headed toward martial bliss, or so you thought.
The “Up Front Contract/Bargain” is the bargain that is made AFTER you have spent time with that “someone” and feel like you have really gotten to know them inside and out and want to move forward with the relationship. It’s a two-way street on that. You both talk about likes and dislikes and do all sorts of things and finally reach a point where you both think that spending a lifetime together is what you would really like to do. You’ve developed deep feelings for each other.
This goes on for 17 years and 3 kids later…..out comes this new revelation of him wanting to wear women’s clothing. I’m sure you were a bit shocked at first but went along with it and was supportive….and sounds like you still are. So, the issue becomes this: “You never told me about this side of you!!” that was not part of the up front bargain. Here we are 17 years down the road and 3 kids later and this comes directly out of left field.
As you know, this didn’t come out of left field. He’s been a CD’er since he was a kid I would be willing to bet. He’s known this and probably thought he could stop it once he got married. Maybe he did for a while? How do I know this? I can relate, that’s why. I got my start at an early age and dabbled with it here and there and thought I would quit doing this when I got married. I sort of did for a while but I can assure you, I have quite a collection of various items of ladies apparel and some of it my wife knows about and some of it she doesn’t know about. She tolerates it to a degree and we don’t talk about it too much.
But, as you have so kindly pointed out, she has a say in this as well. She didn’t really bargain for this but has adapted to some extent. I do try to be fair and fair in all things, not just this or that. In fact, she will comment about situations that she thinks she’s getting short changed and I do try to make those adjustments in fairness. But, sometimes it’s not even any issues that involve the two of us, it’s oftentimes something that has nothing to do with us. And, my wife has pointed that out numerous times that she has said, well, I know you’re fair or always TRYING to be fair. I am that.
So, getting to hear your experiences and perspectives really does help more than you know. I appreciate your contributions and really am going to try to digest and process all this to incorporate it into how I handle certain situations as they present themselves.
Kelly;
Thanks for your multiple posts on this topic. While the original question was very open ended, your comments and responses have been very enlightening Thanks.
To add my opinion to your question: without a 2 way street, the relationship is not much of a relationship; I do think that the biggest thing which is missed in this is the time scale. There’s an old saying that “A strong marriage does require two strong people, but they don’t have to be strong at the same time”. I think that’s applicable in this case as the marriage/relationship does not have to be always perfectly balanced…. BUT it does have to balance over time. Sometimes any one of us may require that we’re hit over the head with something to realise exactly what is right in front of us… (I know I’ve been guilty of this)
I suspect your partner will realise this with time, but may need some nudges to realise what it means to you. I think we can only process so much at a time.
I suspect that this doesn’t surprise you at all, and given your responses, I suspect that you’re further along in the processing of this that I (at least) could be. So… Thanks for your question and the very personal responses. You are clearly a very supportive SO and I wish the two of you all the happiness in the world.
Hugs.
-Molly
Kelly, Thank you for bring up this topic. I agree with Molly, in that I felt the original opening of the topic was a bit vague. I suspect it had some deep rooted emotional anguish behind it, making it difficult for you to truly express your frustration. Thank you for sharing your story/experience with us, through out this forum. As a cis woman (I feel like I can say this on behalf of most of the members on CDH) we always appreciate your voice.
Relationships are so very complex, with many different factors. Just like the people inside them, no two are ever the same. I couldn’t even begin to interject what is going on with your relationship, as there is no way anyone can know the complexities of yours just from a few lines in a forum (though it was much more than a few, which I thank you).
How I feel about the longevity of a relationship is this: People do change as they age due to their experiences and how the world changes around them. A relationship lasts when the two people in that relationship change together. Having shared experiences and processing them together strengths the understanding between two people. I feel, that people “grow apart” when their experiences are not shared and the understanding of the world around them are different from one another.
I am sorry to hear about your relationship from your point of view. It sounds as if you are trying to have shared experiences, supporting your SO by going out with them, helping with dressing, even scheduling a photo shoot. But like you and Laura point out, marriages function by compromise. You don’t feel that your SO is compromising, and your loosing sight of what initially attracted you to him.
I hope for the sake of your marriage the pendulum swings back the other way, and you both find boundaries of compromise you can both live with.
Thanks again for sharing,
Kenzlie
Kelly, I agree with you, sometimes we all have that bad habit of slipping into the rabbit whole of things being all about what we want, and not what our partner wants. We should do things regardless of getting anything in return. But our human nature goes with, I did this, I should get this back.
If you are not getting something you want/need, you should be able to tell your partner w/o issues or guilt. As you stated, relationships are all about give/take and compromise. There needs to be a balance over all and not too one sided. From your comments in regards tot he CD, you are a dream wife!
Thank you for being a supporting and participating CD wife, there are not enough of you in this world!
Hi again Kelly,
Bobbi has given some excellent advice.
Kelly you sound like a very supportive spouse, the things you are doing for your husband are great.
Just remember he has what we call the pink fog. As is implied the pink feminine feeling is so wonderful and it encloses your whole being.
Thats where the Fog comes in we can easily not see anything else but our desires for the fog.
You seem very open and supportive he is so lucky to have you, but you need to tell your husband your needs and expectations.
If you need your husband as your man there has to be boundaries of some sort.
Times when he can be the feminine women he needs and times when he is the man you married.
If you can share time together when he is in femme mode its even better.
I do not have another answer unless a spouse is Ok with their husband being feminine full time.
If he loves and values his marriage its the only answer I can come up with.
Communication is the key.
I think you are being a very understanding spouse and I admire and respect you for this hon.
Patty
Bobbi,
Thank you so much for your words. Maybe if my spouse had your mentality or same opinion on this matter, we could have the ultimate relationship!
I more than give 100% the majority of the time. I am not bragging nor complaining. That is just who I am. I do have limits though on what my mind and heart can process. However the percent that I am receiving in return, becomes less and less each day.
I don’t feel that I am being unreasonable by asking that we have a more compromising relationship where I can have an opinion in our marriage without having to either deal with whatever my spouse desires are everyday or either leave the marriage.
I love him and I am willing to help him, but I feel somethings just are not fair to ask of me. Especially since I would never do anything without regards to how it effects him.
Thanks again for your insight!
KellyLove❣️
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